6 ms·

I used it on my desktop. You can call XMPP horrible, it still worked without any problem. Much better than having a browser tab dedicated for Facebook.

by leni536 11y ago

golergka 11y ago
With respect, you're only one person out of billions. Individually, I used it as well. And (as far as I heard), XMPP sucks for developers to implement and support, not necessarily for users themselves.
- alex_duf 11y ago
  Well then we're three :)
  - richardboegli 11y ago
    Four ;)
  - tomtoise 11y ago
    There's Dozens of us!
    - tutuca 11y ago
      A dozen!
- feld 11y ago
  XMPP is a Russian nesting doll of garbage and the optional XMPP extensions ruined it for everyone because clients are always half baked. XML inside XML inside XML inside XML inside Edit: PSYC outlines XMPP problems pretty well. I wish PSYC was more prevalent. http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP
- okatsu 11y ago
  Yeah as much as I appreciate the concept of XMPP, I find it unlikely that the average person cares about that sort of stuff. Of course, I'm limited to the people I know, so maaaaybe I'm mistaken, but if you think about the average Facebook user (Joe Smith, has 600 friends he barely knows, likes to quote songs in his statuses), what are the odds they would NOT want a dedicated app or tab?
- rixed 11y ago
  Hopefully xmpp, as well as sip and http, helped the tech folks to learn that "it's text based therefore it's simple" does not hold.
  - nothrabannosir 11y ago
    "The tech folks", "text based therefore simple", suggesting anybody ever used XML and simple in one sentence, implying http would be better off binary, … how can such a small comment pack such a misleading punch. Impressive, in a way. The point isn't text → simple (semantics), it's text > binary (syntax). Complexity is mostly a property of semantics, text vs binary is about the syntax used to convey those semantics. For the same semantics, text is easier to debug than binary. That's all. XMPP bad. Binary XMPP worse. Etc.
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      ASCII-hex encoded binary XMPP, mmm... "a018ab978d9877c6" is still text, after all!
- rglullis 11y ago
  The technical part doesn't really matter. The problematic part is that Facebook (and Google) took a page from old Microsoft and applied "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" to the one alternative we had for an open and federated messaging platform. If anything, this should be a lesson for consumers and to learn how to not give that much power to a couple of organizations.
  - golergka 11y ago
    > The technical part doesn't really matter. Why.
    - jordigh 11y ago
      Because lots of things flourish despite not being the most beautifully designed piece of technology. Git survives despite its widely-derided UI, email proliferates despite spam, and Linux is dominant despite having a less beautiful kernel than BSD. What matters is how useful users think it is. Whether developers think the code is beautiful is less important for adoption.
      - golergka 11y ago
        Yeah, these things are mostly true (apart from git, which I think has the best possible interface for a VCS), but I don't understand why did you suddenly switch from a question about a decision by a particular company to a question of wide adoption of technology by a community. And your second paragraph misses the point: it's not about one of the factors, it's about balance between them. In this particular case, the amount of users who prefer XMPP doesn't seem to be big enough to counter the pain of supporting it.
        IshKebab 11y ago
        > which I think has the best possible interface for a VCS Wow, I can easily imagine much better interfaces. In fact I don't even have to imagine - Mercurial is way nicer.
arnvald 11y ago
I agree with the browser tab, this is annoying. I've tried alternatives for Mac: Current and Goofy (basically wrappers around the conversation page), but they're both quite unstable. So far the best option was to keep another tab open, just switch from messenger.com to see only conversations without all the FB feed
- gknoy 11y ago
  I'm a noob to Mac, but I found a "Messenger" app in the app store which, while third party, seems to be pretty well done and easy to use.

I used it on my desktop. You can call XMPP horrible, it still worked without any problem. Much better than having a browser tab dedicated for Facebook.

by leni536 11y ago

I used it on my desktop. You can call XMPP horrible, it still worked without any problem. Much better than having a browser tab dedicated for Facebook.

golergka 11y ago

With respect, you're only one person out of billions. Individually, I used it as well. And (as far as I heard), XMPP sucks for developers to implement and support, not necessarily for users themselves.

alex_duf 11y ago
Well then we're three :)
- richardboegli 11y ago
  Four ;)
- tomtoise 11y ago
  There's Dozens of us!
  - tutuca 11y ago
    A dozen!
feld 11y ago
XMPP is a Russian nesting doll of garbage and the optional XMPP extensions ruined it for everyone because clients are always half baked. XML inside XML inside XML inside XML inside Edit: PSYC outlines XMPP problems pretty well. I wish PSYC was more prevalent. http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP http://about.psyc.eu/XMPP
okatsu 11y ago
Yeah as much as I appreciate the concept of XMPP, I find it unlikely that the average person cares about that sort of stuff. Of course, I'm limited to the people I know, so maaaaybe I'm mistaken, but if you think about the average Facebook user (Joe Smith, has 600 friends he barely knows, likes to quote songs in his statuses), what are the odds they would NOT want a dedicated app or tab?
rixed 11y ago
Hopefully xmpp, as well as sip and http, helped the tech folks to learn that "it's text based therefore it's simple" does not hold.
- nothrabannosir 11y ago
  "The tech folks", "text based therefore simple", suggesting anybody ever used XML and simple in one sentence, implying http would be better off binary, … how can such a small comment pack such a misleading punch. Impressive, in a way. The point isn't text → simple (semantics), it's text > binary (syntax). Complexity is mostly a property of semantics, text vs binary is about the syntax used to convey those semantics. For the same semantics, text is easier to debug than binary. That's all. XMPP bad. Binary XMPP worse. Etc.
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    ASCII-hex encoded binary XMPP, mmm... "a018ab978d9877c6" is still text, after all!
rglullis 11y ago
The technical part doesn't really matter. The problematic part is that Facebook (and Google) took a page from old Microsoft and applied "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" to the one alternative we had for an open and federated messaging platform. If anything, this should be a lesson for consumers and to learn how to not give that much power to a couple of organizations.
- golergka 11y ago
  > The technical part doesn't really matter. Why.
  - jordigh 11y ago
    Because lots of things flourish despite not being the most beautifully designed piece of technology. Git survives despite its widely-derided UI, email proliferates despite spam, and Linux is dominant despite having a less beautiful kernel than BSD. What matters is how useful users think it is. Whether developers think the code is beautiful is less important for adoption.
    - golergka 11y ago
      Yeah, these things are mostly true (apart from git, which I think has the best possible interface for a VCS), but I don't understand why did you suddenly switch from a question about a decision by a particular company to a question of wide adoption of technology by a community. And your second paragraph misses the point: it's not about one of the factors, it's about balance between them. In this particular case, the amount of users who prefer XMPP doesn't seem to be big enough to counter the pain of supporting it.
      - IshKebab 11y ago
        > which I think has the best possible interface for a VCS Wow, I can easily imagine much better interfaces. In fact I don't even have to imagine - Mercurial is way nicer.

arnvald 11y ago

I agree with the browser tab, this is annoying. I've tried alternatives for Mac: Current and Goofy (basically wrappers around the conversation page), but they're both quite unstable. So far the best option was to keep another tab open, just switch from messenger.com to see only conversations without all the FB feed

gknoy 11y ago
I'm a noob to Mac, but I found a "Messenger" app in the app store which, while third party, seems to be pretty well done and easy to use.