7 ms·

I don't know what do you mean by "planned obsolescence" in context of Apple products. I constantly see people using few years old iPhone 4S or 7 years old MacBo

by mamon 11y ago

I don't know what do you mean by "planned obsolescence" in context of Apple products. I constantly see people using few years old iPhone 4S or 7 years old MacBooks. If by "obscolescence" you mean the fact that they release new and better product every year then that's nothing that I would hold against them.

emsy 11y ago
And the fact that they recall 10 year old, out of warranty iPods and replace them with new ones because of battery issues https://www.apple.com/support/ipodnano_replacement/ https://www.apple.com/support/ipodnano_replacement/ My dad still uses my old 4S without a problem while he had constant issues with my old HTC phone
WA 11y ago
iOS7 made the iPhone 4 so slow, it was unusable.
- wingerlang 11y ago
  While it is noticeable, I use and iPhone 4 with 7 on it as my daily device. I definitely don't think it is unusable. Maybe my pain tolerance it high though.
- castell 11y ago
  iOS7 made iPad2 and iPadMini very slow too.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  I remember buying a 4th gen iPod Touch, and it was incredibly slow and buggy the day I bought it-it really needed at least 512 MB RAM, like its equivalent released iPhone 4, instead of relying on older specs to run the same operating system.
- wil421 11y ago
  Unusable? I had to use a 3GS for 5 months last year while I was waiting for my contract to expire. The phone is going on 7 years and still works with no issues although it is slow. Compared to a couple Androids that had problems after 6 months and have little to no updates.
legulere 11y ago
It's good that apple products are sturdy and get updates longer than other devices. There are still some issues though: There are some hindrances to repairing: Glued in batteries, soldered on RAM, soldered on/proprietary connector SSDs. This also means that apple devices can't be upgraded (not really a problem with storage on the mac, as you can use external hard drives, but on iOS devices it's a problem. Upgradable ram would definetly prolong the lifetime of a device). Even when Apple does those repairs, they're way more expensive because of those things. Another way how Apple pushes planned obsolescence is by not giving certain features to older devices. Adblocking and the new colour temperature setting for instance are only available on 64 bit devices while older devices would be perfectly capable to also have them.
- threeseed 11y ago
  You can take your phone/laptop into an Apple Store and for <$100 the battery will be replaced in a few days during which time they lend you an equivalent device. Batteries either need to be completely removable (which increases the size) or having them glued in or not is irrelevant. I wasn't that keen on Apple abandoning upgradeable RAM/SSD for laptops but to be honest neither has been an issue for the last few years. There isn't any applications that are driving the need for more RAM and the SSDs are upgradeable anyway. As for mobiles does any company allow RAM to be upgraded ?
  - legulere 11y ago
    It costs more than 100$ for macbooks: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_States&product=Macnotebooks https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite... It's important to note how the retina macbook pro and 12 inch macbook are the most expensive - 70$ more than all other macbooks in the 11"-15" range. Probably because of their glued in battery that needs to be replaced as a whole together with parts of the case.
    - AlphaSite 11y ago
      The MacBook Air is glued in as well, is it not?
JohnTHaller 11y ago
There have been a few instances where someone wouldn't be too far out of line in assuming planned obsolescence with Apple. An example would be the notorious 2008 Macbook. When Apple launched Mountain Lion in 2012, it ditched support for the plastic Macbooks. So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. For comparison, similarly equipped 2008 Windows laptops can run Windows 10 today without much fuss. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump.
- danieldk 11y ago
  So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. I agree that the support time was too short, but this is not the complete picture. OS X Lion was the last version that runs on the 2008 MacBook and received security updates until October 2014, so the model was supported for 6 years. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump. You are doing it wrong ;). The resale value of MacBooks is very high. My wife usually gets my current MacBook after 1.5 years and we sell her old MacBook. We usually get 600-700 Euro. 400 Euro for using a MacBook for three years in total is not bad... The resale value for Windows laptops is typically bad. There is a company across the street where they sell 3-4 year old ThinkPads for 300 Euro.
  - JohnTHaller 11y ago
    Security updates and the ability to run the latest OS are very different things, especially in Mac-land. Unlike Windows software which generally runs on a very wide range of versions, most Mac apps assume users are only running more recent releases. For example, Firefox runs Windows versions up to 14 years ago (Windows XP, which isn't even supported by Microsoft any more) but only on Mac OS X within the last 6 years (OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard). Couple that with the fact that it is very difficult to determine when Apple drops support for a given version of OS X because they have no published schedule and don't officially announce when they drop support of a specific version. In short, the equivalent 2008 Windows laptop is still getting security updates for the OS it came with, works with nearly all major Windows software, and can be updated to the latest version of Windows without much fuss. The 2008 Macbook is running an unsupported version of OS X, can't be upgraded to the current version of OS X, and can't run quite a lot of Mac software. Windows vs Mac resale value plays a lot into the way Windows folks use their laptops. The reason is that they generally use a given laptop until they no longer need it. My girlfriend's laptop will be 5 years old this year and was purchased for about the same amount of money it cost you to use your Macbook for 3 years. I spent another ~US$100 to upgrade to an SSD recently which will give it quite a bit more life. And it can be upgraded to Windows 10 for free if we want to at some point. Granted, it's only used for web browsing, office suite stuff, watching videos, recording and editing voice-over work etc, so it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. So, it's really more a different use case. Your typical pattern of buy and sell is kind of fascinating to me as a Windows user, but makes complete sense given the comparable markets and models. The wider array of Windows laptop choices in different budgets accounts for the lower resale value of higher end Windows laptops. Most users are fine spending $400 or less on a Windows laptop for the basic browsing, email, photos, videos, etc needs. High end Windows laptop users want a new machine, not a used one. So, there's not much interest in $500 used Windows laptops... they don't serve either market segment well. In Mac-land, there is no $400-500 Mac laptop option, so anyone with only that budget has to look at used models. Thus, the demand keeps the cost for a used Macbook high compared to Windows laptops. In the end, I think we're both doing it right for our needs :)
tdkl 11y ago
By producing worse updates without option to downgrade to previous versions, with no practical gains but to boost the new hardware sales. iOS 9 ruined the classic iOS fluidity and smoothness compared to previous release. And this wasn't the first case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwh3lDeCME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwh3lDeCME Apple are a high-margin accessories and hardware merchant, the software quality days are over.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  So don't install iOS9 on older devices? They still work fine.
forgetsusername 11y ago
>I constantly see people using few years old iPhone 4S or 7 years old MacBooks. Ask them how their user experience with those devices is. I know people who are still running 4s', and it's bad. Why can't my older iPad use ad-blocking? It says it's performance related, but isn't the ad-blocking supposed to improve performance? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to older devices? Nope, if I want it, get a new device. I have and use many Apple devices. But a computer is a computer; let's not pretend that Apple has avoided hardware becoming outdated. I'm sure people hold onto their old devices because they're expensive a maintain some social cachet.
- bsdetector 11y ago
  Regex matching on 40,000 expressions for every resource takes a lot of work. Even with native code generation, which Apple would have to do extra work for 32-bit CPUs, it would add seconds to each page load on those old phones.
- rsynnott 11y ago
  > Why can't my older iPad use ad-blocking? It says it's performance related, but isn't the ad-blocking supposed to improve performance? Where does it say that? Lack of ad-blocking on older (pre-iPad Air, I think) iPads isn't performance related, it's because they're 32bit. A lot of Apple's new OS features are 64bit only.
simonh 11y ago
My eldest started secondary school this year. She wanted a smartphone and is very happy using my old 3GS. I'd love to know what anyone might suggest as a smartphone manufacturer that does more to support their devices for longer than Apple.
seanp2k2 11y ago
While they are very likely of "prevention of repair" on purpose (voiding your warranty, soldered stuff, yes I suppose sockets cost money and add thickness) and "style obsolescence" (somewhat indirectly due to fast-moving mobile trends), I think that in general they do things which enable people to practically use their devices longer than other manufacturers (reasonable battery replacement, older devices still receiving OS updates up to 2 years after their release date, solid hardware compared to the competition). Planned obsolescence in these ways is not the same as "let's build it crappy / with known weaknesses so it breaks and people have to buy a new one". Mobile is super competitive, and part of Apple's brand is their [perceived] high[er than the competition] quality.

by mamon 11y ago

emsy 11y ago

And the fact that they recall 10 year old, out of warranty iPods and replace them with new ones because of battery issues https://www.apple.com/support/ipodnano_replacement/ https://www.apple.com/support/ipodnano_replacement/ My dad still uses my old 4S without a problem while he had constant issues with my old HTC phone

WA 11y ago

iOS7 made the iPhone 4 so slow, it was unusable.

wingerlang 11y ago
While it is noticeable, I use and iPhone 4 with 7 on it as my daily device. I definitely don't think it is unusable. Maybe my pain tolerance it high though.
castell 11y ago
iOS7 made iPad2 and iPadMini very slow too.
ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
I remember buying a 4th gen iPod Touch, and it was incredibly slow and buggy the day I bought it-it really needed at least 512 MB RAM, like its equivalent released iPhone 4, instead of relying on older specs to run the same operating system.
wil421 11y ago
Unusable? I had to use a 3GS for 5 months last year while I was waiting for my contract to expire. The phone is going on 7 years and still works with no issues although it is slow. Compared to a couple Androids that had problems after 6 months and have little to no updates.

legulere 11y ago

It's good that apple products are sturdy and get updates longer than other devices. There are still some issues though: There are some hindrances to repairing: Glued in batteries, soldered on RAM, soldered on/proprietary connector SSDs. This also means that apple devices can't be upgraded (not really a problem with storage on the mac, as you can use external hard drives, but on iOS devices it's a problem. Upgradable ram would definetly prolong the lifetime of a device). Even when Apple does those repairs, they're way more expensive because of those things. Another way how Apple pushes planned obsolescence is by not giving certain features to older devices. Adblocking and the new colour temperature setting for instance are only available on 64 bit devices while older devices would be perfectly capable to also have them.

threeseed 11y ago
You can take your phone/laptop into an Apple Store and for <$100 the battery will be replaced in a few days during which time they lend you an equivalent device. Batteries either need to be completely removable (which increases the size) or having them glued in or not is irrelevant. I wasn't that keen on Apple abandoning upgradeable RAM/SSD for laptops but to be honest neither has been an issue for the last few years. There isn't any applications that are driving the need for more RAM and the SSDs are upgradeable anyway. As for mobiles does any company allow RAM to be upgraded ?
- legulere 11y ago
  It costs more than 100$ for macbooks: https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=United_States&product=Macnotebooks https://support.apple.com/kb/index?page=servicefaq&geo=Unite... It's important to note how the retina macbook pro and 12 inch macbook are the most expensive - 70$ more than all other macbooks in the 11"-15" range. Probably because of their glued in battery that needs to be replaced as a whole together with parts of the case.
  - AlphaSite 11y ago
    The MacBook Air is glued in as well, is it not?

JohnTHaller 11y ago

There have been a few instances where someone wouldn't be too far out of line in assuming planned obsolescence with Apple. An example would be the notorious 2008 Macbook. When Apple launched Mountain Lion in 2012, it ditched support for the plastic Macbooks. So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. For comparison, similarly equipped 2008 Windows laptops can run Windows 10 today without much fuss. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump.

danieldk 11y ago
So, that 2008 white Macbook my girlfriend bought only got new OS updates for 3 years, which was a pretty big bummer. I agree that the support time was too short, but this is not the complete picture. OS X Lion was the last version that runs on the 2008 MacBook and received security updates until October 2014, so the model was supported for 6 years. In the end, her LCD started to short out anyway -- a common issue with Macbooks of that era -- so we got her a basic Toshiba laptop for about 1/2 the price of a Mac. It's still humming along nicely and I just dropped an SSD in it to give it a huge speed bump. You are doing it wrong ;). The resale value of MacBooks is very high. My wife usually gets my current MacBook after 1.5 years and we sell her old MacBook. We usually get 600-700 Euro. 400 Euro for using a MacBook for three years in total is not bad... The resale value for Windows laptops is typically bad. There is a company across the street where they sell 3-4 year old ThinkPads for 300 Euro.
- JohnTHaller 11y ago
  Security updates and the ability to run the latest OS are very different things, especially in Mac-land. Unlike Windows software which generally runs on a very wide range of versions, most Mac apps assume users are only running more recent releases. For example, Firefox runs Windows versions up to 14 years ago (Windows XP, which isn't even supported by Microsoft any more) but only on Mac OS X within the last 6 years (OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard). Couple that with the fact that it is very difficult to determine when Apple drops support for a given version of OS X because they have no published schedule and don't officially announce when they drop support of a specific version. In short, the equivalent 2008 Windows laptop is still getting security updates for the OS it came with, works with nearly all major Windows software, and can be updated to the latest version of Windows without much fuss. The 2008 Macbook is running an unsupported version of OS X, can't be upgraded to the current version of OS X, and can't run quite a lot of Mac software. Windows vs Mac resale value plays a lot into the way Windows folks use their laptops. The reason is that they generally use a given laptop until they no longer need it. My girlfriend's laptop will be 5 years old this year and was purchased for about the same amount of money it cost you to use your Macbook for 3 years. I spent another ~US$100 to upgrade to an SSD recently which will give it quite a bit more life. And it can be upgraded to Windows 10 for free if we want to at some point. Granted, it's only used for web browsing, office suite stuff, watching videos, recording and editing voice-over work etc, so it doesn't need to be the latest and greatest. So, it's really more a different use case. Your typical pattern of buy and sell is kind of fascinating to me as a Windows user, but makes complete sense given the comparable markets and models. The wider array of Windows laptop choices in different budgets accounts for the lower resale value of higher end Windows laptops. Most users are fine spending $400 or less on a Windows laptop for the basic browsing, email, photos, videos, etc needs. High end Windows laptop users want a new machine, not a used one. So, there's not much interest in $500 used Windows laptops... they don't serve either market segment well. In Mac-land, there is no $400-500 Mac laptop option, so anyone with only that budget has to look at used models. Thus, the demand keeps the cost for a used Macbook high compared to Windows laptops. In the end, I think we're both doing it right for our needs :)

tdkl 11y ago

By producing worse updates without option to downgrade to previous versions, with no practical gains but to boost the new hardware sales. iOS 9 ruined the classic iOS fluidity and smoothness compared to previous release. And this wasn't the first case. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwh3lDeCME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iwh3lDeCME Apple are a high-margin accessories and hardware merchant, the software quality days are over.

ceejayoz 11y ago
So don't install iOS9 on older devices? They still work fine.

forgetsusername 11y ago

>I constantly see people using few years old iPhone 4S or 7 years old MacBooks. Ask them how their user experience with those devices is. I know people who are still running 4s', and it's bad. Why can't my older iPad use ad-blocking? It says it's performance related, but isn't the ad-blocking supposed to improve performance? Wouldn't it be more beneficial to older devices? Nope, if I want it, get a new device. I have and use many Apple devices. But a computer is a computer; let's not pretend that Apple has avoided hardware becoming outdated. I'm sure people hold onto their old devices because they're expensive a maintain some social cachet.

bsdetector 11y ago
Regex matching on 40,000 expressions for every resource takes a lot of work. Even with native code generation, which Apple would have to do extra work for 32-bit CPUs, it would add seconds to each page load on those old phones.
rsynnott 11y ago
> Why can't my older iPad use ad-blocking? It says it's performance related, but isn't the ad-blocking supposed to improve performance? Where does it say that? Lack of ad-blocking on older (pre-iPad Air, I think) iPads isn't performance related, it's because they're 32bit. A lot of Apple's new OS features are 64bit only.

simonh 11y ago

My eldest started secondary school this year. She wanted a smartphone and is very happy using my old 3GS. I'd love to know what anyone might suggest as a smartphone manufacturer that does more to support their devices for longer than Apple.

seanp2k2 11y ago

While they are very likely of "prevention of repair" on purpose (voiding your warranty, soldered stuff, yes I suppose sockets cost money and add thickness) and "style obsolescence" (somewhat indirectly due to fast-moving mobile trends), I think that in general they do things which enable people to practically use their devices longer than other manufacturers (reasonable battery replacement, older devices still receiving OS updates up to 2 years after their release date, solid hardware compared to the competition). Planned obsolescence in these ways is not the same as "let's build it crappy / with known weaknesses so it breaks and people have to buy a new one". Mobile is super competitive, and part of Apple's brand is their [perceived] high[er than the competition] quality.