11 ms·
Visual Studio is one of the best IDE out there, and it is likely to remain better than Rider for at least a while. It surely "comes close" ;)
by FatalBaboon 11y ago
Visual Studio is one of the best IDE out there, and it is likely to remain better than Rider for at least a while.
It surely "comes close" ;)
- Pxtl 11y agoI dev on C# full time and also use Eclipse for java, and while vs is more professional-looking and featureful, the darn thing feels disgustingly single-threaded. The amount of ways to cause a stop-the-world lock-up is impressive. Vs2015 somewhat improved on its predecessors on this front, but it still has plenty of ways where it drags.
- gravypod 11y agoI think the reason most people don't notice this is because developers on average have better computer hardware. Anyone who uses a laptop for on-the-go development on the other hand gets hit with these problems front-on. In college, I assumed everyone loved Visual Studios just because everyone was told to use it and there were, in reality, no other options. I hope that in the next few years, with the open sourcing of some Microsoft software, that we can see better IDEs for the ecosystem being created.
- pjmlp 11y agoAny IDE that wants to challenge VS has an uphill battle in what concerns: - GUI editors - Parallel code debugging - GPU debugging - Enterprise code navigation - Edit-and-continue - Debugging native code generated for .NET applications - Mixed language debugging - GUI Profiler - Code Profiler Just a few items on the top of my head.
- mikewilliams 11y agoDon't forget the image editor.
- alkonaut 11y agoI made a raytracer the other day (A necessary rite of passage for any developer) and happened to add a Wavefront (.obj) 3D mesh file file to my solution. Then clicked it. VS just shat out what was essentially a mesh viewer with some pretty advanced capabilities. No wonder it's huge :D
- Pxtl 11y agoAnd all that stuff would be fine if opening up the file didn't lock up the whole IDE. Lock the tab with a loading anim and let the developer work elsewhere.
- taspeotis 11y agoIf you launch Visual Studio with `devenv.exe /safemode` which "prevents all third-party VSPackages from loading when Visual Studio starts" [1] you will find Visual Studio runs extremely quickly. It's stuff like ReSharper that slows it down. [1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms241278.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms241278.aspx
- gorohoroh 11y agoThis is not necessarily true, especially with VS2015 RTM (Update 1 is a bit better): https://twitter.com/hmemcpy/status/687257223081377792 https://twitter.com/hmemcpy/status/687257223081377792
- taspeotis 11y ago> This is not necessarily true Can you please clarify which part? The linked tweet talks about Roslyn. I'd expect that to be loaded because ... it's not third-party.
- gorohoroh 11y agoYes Roslyn is first party and it naturally does load, and it's very memory-intensive. You can see it happening without any extensions installed.
- ygra 11y agoMemory usage and performance are two things, though. ReSharper may not add much to the memory load, but the IDE still feels sluggish.
- Pxtl 11y agoActually, the most monstrous pig in Visual Studio for me is SSDT (Microsoft's SQL-code development environment within VS). That's a bit offtopic since it's for SQL development and not C#, and they made a little bit of improvement in 2015, but still: it's a pathetic monster. In general, anything that tries to pop-open a GUI and just drags makes me roll my eyes. EDMX files, I'm looking in your direction.
- gravypod 11y agoI don't agree. If an IDE takes better hardware to run than Crysis and is so bloated with features that it makes a Epson HX-20 look like a Macbook Air there is a problem. People use Visual Studios because they are used to it.
- alkonaut 11y agoThe problem isn't feature bloat (lots of people need feature X, some others need feature Y). The problem is that you can't properly uncheck/select features you don't want yet in the instealler, so you end up with a lot of stuff you don't need. For performance: If you ask me what is more expensive computationally: Crysis or an IDE; I say an IDE can at least as performance hungry. Nothing strange with that. Try writing code to perform syntax check and autocompletion on broken/incomplete syntax, for a few thousand files, then you'll see what I mean. I'm very happy to use a monster gaming machine for coding (professionally) if it increases my productivity even just a little.
- lsaferite 11y ago> The problem is that you can't properly uncheck/select features you don't want yet in the instealler, so you end up with a lot of stuff you don't need. Isn't that functionally the same as being bloated?
- alkonaut 11y agoIt is in a way yes. However a of the bloat I feel is mainly hard drive bloat in the sense that not only do I not use it, It's never even loaded or visible in the application. So it's different from "feature bloat" in the regular sense, that is just tons of buttons for things you don't use.
- gravypod 11y ago>I'm very happy to use a monster gaming machine for coding (professionally) if it increases my productivity even just a little. I don't feel that is an appropriate reaction. Just because software is poorly optimized does not mean we should subject ourselves it. For instance, eclipse does similar (in my opinion better) auto-completion than Visual Studios and it does not take the same resources, by a long shot.
- alkonaut 11y agoVS is nice and powerful, but ironically it needs Resharper to match a JetBrains IDE like IntelliJ for autocompletion/tooltips/navigation, which is severly lacking in Visual Studio. That's one objection. The other problem with Visual Studio is that it's a beast. It takes multiple gigs of drive space (which of course suddenly became a problem when everyone's disks shrunk from 1TB to 128GB over night a couple of years ago, at the same time VS grew to around 15GB...). This is being worked on, but it will be a few more versions until the installer is good, and it will never be as small as an IDE that isn't carrying years of Windows legacy stuff. In short: VS is one of the best IDE's out there, but it would be a lot better (At C#) if it contained ReSharper's features and weighed in at 1/10 of its size. And that is exactly what this looks like.
- pjmlp 11y agoOn the other hand, the debugging tools are great!
- ruraljuror 11y agoI like Resharper a lot, but I do found that a lot of the features I use in Resharper are baked right into VS. For example, in Resharper Ctrl + T navigates to a symbol by name. That is Ctrl + , in VS. The code analysis/improvements/suggestions is definitely great though, at least for a while.
- alkonaut 11y agoI haven't used a "naked" VS for a few versions, how long has it had proper giro type/file/symbol navigation?
- ruraljuror 11y ago2010 (improved in 2013) according to this blog post. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mvpawardprogram/2013/10/22/visual-studio-2013-navigate-to-improvements/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mvpawardprogram/2013/10/22/...
- robwilliams 11y ago
- realharo 11y agoLast time I used VS, I was surprised by the lack of some pretty basic features, such as Ctrl+click navigation (there is a plugin for that though), or a quick way to show formatted function documentation in a popup.
- moron4hire 11y agoIs shift+click just too hard?
- jasonkostempski 11y agoUnless you've got some wacky key bindings, that selects text between the caret and the mouse cursor. F12 is the shortcut I've got. Alt+F12 for "Peek".
- ZebraCakes 11y agoThey might have meant Ctrl+Click
- rhodysurf 11y agoTo show the documentation you literally just hover over a symbol
- realharo 11y agoThat only shows the summary though, not the documentation for the function parameters and other parts of the doc comment.