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Possible? Maybe. Desirable? No, not all. Don't get me wrong, AppKit is very much in need of a modernization, and it definitely is not as actively improved upon

Possible? Maybe. Desirable? No, not all. Don't get me wrong, AppKit is very much in need of a modernization, and it definitely is not as actively improved upon as UIKit is, but the two have very little in common from a design UI/UX standpoint. What has Microsoft shown with their multi-paradigm direction? That lowest common denominator is bad. And same would be for a possible "UXKit".

Aleman360 11y ago
Why would you want different UI framework for each screen size/input device type? Seems silly to have one set of API's for small touch devices and a completely different one for large mouse-driven devices. Shuts the door to large touch devices and small mouse-driven devices. iPad Pro is already awkward. At that size, a mouse would be nice, along with lots of other desktop UX paradigms. > What has Microsoft shown with their multi-paradigm direction? Seems to be working. Windows Shell, modern Office, Edge, and Xbox dashboard are all using the same UI framework.
- jimbokun 11y ago
  Define "working". Since the introduction of iOS, Apple has seen a lot more growth and profits than Microsoft, and became the largest corporation in the world (by market cap). I do think Microsoft's latest multi-paradigm devices (like Surface Pro), are gaining traction. But overall Apple has outpaced Microsoft while having different UI frameworks for mobile and PC.
  - Aleman360 11y ago
    I'm talking from a dev perspective, not a business perspective.
    - an_account 11y ago
      From a dev perspective, why not just have one device only? Then we wouldn't have to worry about different screen sizes or input devices.
    - jimbokun 11y ago
      From a dev perspective, the best development environment is the one with the most customers willing to buy your products. Other criteria come pretty far behind that.
dharma1 11y ago
Android apps work pretty well with mouse, on desktop. I think the baseline toolkit could be the same, with some extra components for different form factors. We're working on something like that (multi form factor UI toolkit) for Ubuntu, with Qt. Will see how far it goes.
- matthewmacleod 11y ago
  Android apps work pretty well with mouse, on desktop. No! No they absolutely don't! Almost every Android app is clearly design for use on a touch device. Every aspect of the design is intended to be touch-first. That's totally fine – but the fact that they can be used with a mouse on a desktop does not mean that they work pretty well. The user interface paradigms are really very different.
  - dharma1 11y ago
    Have you actually tried using Android with a mouse?
    - Alphasite_ 11y ago
      Yes. It is awful.
chrisdevereux 11y ago
Exactly. Apart from anything else, we already have HTML. Why would you want to write a lowest common denominator UI that only targets the Apple ecosystem? You'd be getting neither the benefits of native nor the benefits of cross-platform.
sdegutis 11y ago
AppKit is dead. Apple is using WebKit for all their UI needs, these days. Goodbye AppKit, you were never that great, but you served your purpose, and had a relatively long and fulfilling life. RIP.
- LeoNatan25 11y ago
  Huh? What are you talking about?
- CountSessine 11y ago
  I don't think that this is true...
micheljansen 11y ago
I agree that it's a terrible idea to put a touch UI on a mouse-operated desktop and pretend you're done. That doesn't mean you always have to build two completely separate apps or UIs for each platform though. The differences between touch/mouse incarnations of basic components, such as lists, buttons, scrollviews etc. can often be resolved with adaptive design. Apple has already put the basics in place to allow for adaptive apps that scale from the smallest iPhone to the largest iPad. Doing the same for touch -> keyboard/mouse UI is not unthinkable.

Aleman360 11y ago

Why would you want different UI framework for each screen size/input device type? Seems silly to have one set of API's for small touch devices and a completely different one for large mouse-driven devices. Shuts the door to large touch devices and small mouse-driven devices. iPad Pro is already awkward. At that size, a mouse would be nice, along with lots of other desktop UX paradigms. > What has Microsoft shown with their multi-paradigm direction? Seems to be working. Windows Shell, modern Office, Edge, and Xbox dashboard are all using the same UI framework.

jimbokun 11y ago
Define "working". Since the introduction of iOS, Apple has seen a lot more growth and profits than Microsoft, and became the largest corporation in the world (by market cap). I do think Microsoft's latest multi-paradigm devices (like Surface Pro), are gaining traction. But overall Apple has outpaced Microsoft while having different UI frameworks for mobile and PC.
- Aleman360 11y ago
  I'm talking from a dev perspective, not a business perspective.
  - an_account 11y ago
    From a dev perspective, why not just have one device only? Then we wouldn't have to worry about different screen sizes or input devices.
  - jimbokun 11y ago
    From a dev perspective, the best development environment is the one with the most customers willing to buy your products. Other criteria come pretty far behind that.

dharma1 11y ago

Android apps work pretty well with mouse, on desktop. I think the baseline toolkit could be the same, with some extra components for different form factors. We're working on something like that (multi form factor UI toolkit) for Ubuntu, with Qt. Will see how far it goes.

matthewmacleod 11y ago
Android apps work pretty well with mouse, on desktop. No! No they absolutely don't! Almost every Android app is clearly design for use on a touch device. Every aspect of the design is intended to be touch-first. That's totally fine – but the fact that they can be used with a mouse on a desktop does not mean that they work pretty well. The user interface paradigms are really very different.
- dharma1 11y ago
  Have you actually tried using Android with a mouse?
  - Alphasite_ 11y ago
    Yes. It is awful.

chrisdevereux 11y ago

Exactly. Apart from anything else, we already have HTML. Why would you want to write a lowest common denominator UI that only targets the Apple ecosystem? You'd be getting neither the benefits of native nor the benefits of cross-platform.

sdegutis 11y ago

AppKit is dead. Apple is using WebKit for all their UI needs, these days. Goodbye AppKit, you were never that great, but you served your purpose, and had a relatively long and fulfilling life. RIP.

LeoNatan25 11y ago
Huh? What are you talking about?
CountSessine 11y ago
I don't think that this is true...

micheljansen 11y ago

I agree that it's a terrible idea to put a touch UI on a mouse-operated desktop and pretend you're done. That doesn't mean you always have to build two completely separate apps or UIs for each platform though. The differences between touch/mouse incarnations of basic components, such as lists, buttons, scrollviews etc. can often be resolved with adaptive design. Apple has already put the basics in place to allow for adaptive apps that scale from the smallest iPhone to the largest iPad. Doing the same for touch -> keyboard/mouse UI is not unthinkable.