6 ms·

I think the biggest risk to adoption is real-world interest. I get that VR is a fun tech, and has some potentially cool possibilities. But to me and seemingly

I think the biggest risk to adoption is real-world interest. I get that VR is a fun tech, and has some potentially cool possibilities. But to me and seemingly many other people, it's just not that interesting. I don't know why, maybe I'm not geek enough, but I just have zero interest. And frankly it feels kind of like a gimmick. I'm especially averse to the idea of strapping on a clumsy headset every time I want to use it. In fact, I wish Carmack and Newell would stop messing around with it and go back to producing quality games. Downvote away

ljk 11y ago
Agreed. To look at a monitor, only the eyes have to move; with VR goggles, something needs to be attached to your head AND you'd have to move your whole head to see the environment. Also, is it good to have your eyes focusing on something that close to your face for a long period of time? (not a doctor)
- CarVac 11y ago
  There are lenses; the image is around 1.5 meters away.
  - ljk 11y ago
    didn't realize that, thanks!
- DINKDINK 11y ago
  >is it good to have your eyes focusing on something that close to your face for a long period of time? The converse thought about the differences between viewing a VR screen vs a 2D monitor. VR Screens you have the capability of your eyes needing to adjust to different depths. That is, the muscles that dictate the position of your eyes will need to be recalibrated slightly when you start viewing entities at different depths. With 2D monitors you're approximately at the same text tracking rate. There's ergonomic software that will periodically instruct you to look away from your computer screen to focus on points in the distance for the health of your eyes.
- haydenlee 11y ago
  The optics involved mean you aren't focusing 2 inches from your face, with the DK2 you're focusing at 1.3m and the DK1 was at infinity (not sure about CV1). So you could argue its better for eye strain.
rboyd 11y ago
Where this is heading is augmentation that shrinks until it's unnoticeable that you're equipped with anything. Virtual and augmented reality merge, and the display components of traditional products disappear. Everything will get a virtual interface. Gaming will be about as important to mixed reality as gaming is to all of computing today. It's shaping up to be one of the most revolutionary technologies of our generation.
thetmkay 11y ago
One of the reasons why it may lack real-world interest is lack of content. People need to believe in the medium and pioneer content in spite of lack of interest, in hope to generate that interest, or it will remain an unsolved chicken-and-egg problem. I believe Newell and Carmack do want to make high quality "games" in the sense of interactive experiences, and they see VR as an opportunity for that. What's required is patience and dedicated resources, fuelled by early adopters/aspirers.
- vocatus_gate 11y ago
  That's fair. Seeing an impressive example of the tech put to good use might get me excited about it, something beyond another 3D "walking around" simulator. Maybe it's one of those technologies that needs a breakthrough moment, or to reach critical mass to where mainstream adoption starts occurring. Because right now it feels very "really? We're trying to make this happen again?" to me.
  - yazaddaruvala 11y ago
    Actually because of the way your brain and body are linked: a 3D "walking around" simulator, (while sitting stationary) is currently the worst possible VR experience. The best, is piloting a machine - car, plane, etc. You're in a seat, like your real body is. You're waiting for the: experiencing a X-Wing in motion while in a dog fight destroying TIE fighters over Jakku, R2-D2 beeping in your ears demo. If you get the chance try Eve Valkyrie on a DK2. It is one of the closest, currently existing, demos to the one I described above.
horsecaptin 11y ago
I bet opinions like yours were prevalent when 3D games first came out. "This 3D thing is nice, but why don't you just concentrate on making a better videogames?".
- theinternetman 11y ago
  As someone old enough to remember that time, no one said that.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    As also someone old enough to remember that time, lots of SNES and Sega Genesis owners were saying that. And people were getting sick from Doom at far greater rates than they are today from Oculus Rifts.
    - onli 11y ago
      > And people were getting sick from Doom at far greater rates than they are today from Oculus Rifts. That remains to be seen when VR headsets arrive in households. We just don't know that yet. I got convinced by the tech after trying a Develover Kit, but the that people (inclduing me) will get sick from it is my big concern.
      - kamaal 11y ago
        >>people (inclduing me) will get sick from it is my big concern Sick doesn't mean cancer or tuberclosis. I remember from my childhood watching TV was considered bad, because it was thought to be bad fore one's eyes. Ear phones were bad for the ears and reading on the smart phone in a bus makes me motion sick to date. Like everything there is a middle ground.
        onli 11y ago
        I mean getting sick, as in having to throw up. A bit like motion sickness, though it is not exactly the same thing. If enough people can't use it because they get uncomfortable from it, because they puke on the floor, that would be a bad thing. I understand that there is a lot of work being done to prevent that. And still I think it is something to look out for.
kamaal 11y ago
A lot of people felt the same way about Smart phones, until cheaper options with decent features arrived. Now nearly every one agrees with the utility of smart phones, to a point most people would find quite difficult to live without one. The same will unfold with VR over coming years. Affordable options with great content and applications can make this a common place gadget. I currently live in a living room, disturbance and lack of privacy are the biggest annoyances. Something like this looks like an ideal way to create a wall of privacy regardless of who is around. The use cases for such a device are uncountable.
nlawalker 11y ago
The best bet for Oculus and VR companies, in my opinion, is not to approach the market assuming that VR is going to be everywhere and used for everything in a few years. Sometimes, that's a safe assumption (like with the iPhone), but with a technology that has as many caveats as VR, marketing the product as if it's going to change everyone's life is the best way to torpedo it. Case in point - Google Glass. I think Glass could have found viability in specific uses, but they marketed as "people are going to wear this everywhere!" and the resulting backlash completely destroyed the concept in the mind of the consumer. Not everything has to be an overnight success, or requires every person on the planet using it to be successful. HDTV took years and years to gain traction, during which time the technology improved and became cheaper by leaps and bounds. I think the current Oculus marketing message - "we know it's expensive; the technology is still improving; we don't really know exactly what the killer apps and best uses cases are for VR yet; this is targeted at hobbyists and people who want to push the envelope and set the stage for the next phase of VR" - is right on. They should stick with that and make sure they don't drift into "VR will revolutionize your life and your social network" territory. Let the early adopters figure out what to do with it.
aresant 11y ago
I literally feel sorry for you, not in an unfriendly way, that you haven't seen the right demo yet and can't share the insane excitement that I have for this technology. This is the FIRST consumer release! This is the Palm Pilot 1 of VR. Yes most of the content right now is mediocre but there are some mindblowing experiences too. For instance Elite Dangerous + DK2 + Motion Sim. It literally feels like you are piloting a craft in outer space. Here's a demo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqr8ee7GORY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqr8ee7GORY I have a similar rig and I literally have to fight off the skeptics / marginally interested after they try it. The "strap on a clumsy" headset part is going to go away quickly. Every sensor in there is being miniaturized by the day. Magic Leap (and others) are using tricks to project imagery directly onto your retina. The form factor will wind up wireless, probably look similar to google glass. Oculus + 3D audio + input + eventual tactical is going to completely blur the lines of reality in ways we can't yet imagine - gaming, training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc - it's all going to be different in 10 years because of VR. I believe that being a student of VR at this point, which I believe will be the top mechanism to consume content in the future, is akin to being an early iphone dev. Plus gave me a good excuse to order the CV1 :)
- moron4hire 11y ago
  I'm not exaggerating when I say that I couldn't have said it better. After a year, I'm really getting tired of having to explain this to such unimaginative people.
- drzaiusapelord 11y ago
  >This is the FIRST consumer release! This is the Palm Pilot 1 of VR. Actually, there were multiple VR technologies released in the 90s and 2000s. This isn't like being on the groundfloor of some new concept, its like a revival of something old. I wish Oculus all the luck in the world, but this technology has failed in the market many times. Yes, maybe more FPS and higher resolutions is what was needed, but I guess we'll see. Some 90's products: http://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/a-trip-down-virtual-reality-road-6-systems-of-the-past.html/?a=viewall http://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/a-trip-down-virtual-rea... Its funny how there's this "everything old is new again and we all suddenly have amnesia" attitude with VR advocates. They talk about the headsets which are pricey and annoying to use(and no one has solved the motion sickness problem perfectly yet). They talk about the metaverse, yet we've had Second Life for a decade and it didn't revolutionize anything and is largely an online joke. Whether people think the social and economic cost of strapping a tissue size box to your face is worth it, is worthy of being skeptical about. 3D TV's came at a zero premium over regular TV's not too long ago, and no one wanted to wear those dorky glasses. Many people I know, myself included, avoid the 3D showings at theaters because of how gimmicky it is and how those glasses wash out the colors (not a concern with the Rift). >It literally feels like you are piloting a craft in outer space. You have no idea what its like to be in outer space. You're getting this manufactured and fake experience by game devs who also don't know what its like to be in outer space. That's what really bugs me about this platform, how incredibly fake everything is, yet somehow the marketing is all about it being 'real.' I would love a hardnosed simulator with all the tactile feedback and such involved, instead we're just getting Unity3D shovelware with basic 3D tropes like moving starfields and everyone suddenly thinks this is amazing. Its not. Its just a lot of hype from gamers obsessed with fake experiences and general gamer fanboyism, which is almost always unadulterated hype. Remember the Kinect and all the hype behind it? Its now a dead peripheral: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/5-ways-xbox-one-kinect-failed-microsoft-and-stiffed-early-adopters-1248505 http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/5-ways-xbox... Hell, even the crowd friendly Wii motion controls have been put on the "gimmick" shelf after a, maybe, 2 or 3 year period where everyone was raving it was the future of gaming. >t's all going to be different in 10 years because of VR. According to HN/Reddit/Slashdot we'd have jetpacks, space hotels, 500 year lifespans, cancer cures, and robot servants by now. I'd be very careful with the old "just wait 10 years guys, then you'll see my questionable premise was actually right" trope. Ironically, its an antique.
thescriptkiddie 11y ago
Have you tried VR? It sounds like either you haven't, or you did and had a shitty experience - because it wasn't until very recently that VR was even remotely usable. You should give the Oculus a shot when you have a chance. Sure, the headset is annoying to put on. But once you've spent a few hours in a high-quality VR experience, games on a normal monitor just feel clumsy and claustrophobic. Carmack and Newell are going back to producing quality games. Those two have been in semi-retirement for years now, and VR is the thing that finally got them excited to make things again. Those two have been dreaming about VR gaming since the day multiplayer was added to Doom. Also, the trolls still haven't figured out how to downvote here. Don't tip them off.
zardo 11y ago
I think this is a bit like a "pocket PC" in the early 2000's. It was just a toy for nerds, then they got more and more useful, then they got re-branded as smartphones and made it big. You're looking at the Palm Pilot of VR. VR, and mixed reality, is going to get more compelling.
cookiecaper 11y ago
I think you're right. I have a DK-1 and I think it's a cool novelty, but in terms of mass market appeal and everyday uses, I don't really see it. You look weird with the thing on your head, it's heavy and fatigues your neck, you still have to use a kb/mouse input device to control anything other than where your avatar is looking, you can't see anything else around you without pulling the HMD away from your face (bigger annoyance than it sounds), and nobody else can see your screen (in fact, when I used the DK-1, I would often clone the output onto the main monitor so my wife could see what I was seeing and vice-versa). It kills the limited real-life social interaction people can have with video gaming now. 3D TV was very similar in that it worked great for one person, but once you got more than that, you had to make sure everyone had their own pair of glasses, everyone was sitting at an appropriate angle, etc. You couldn't just walk in and out and have a casual social TV experience, because for people without the glasses or sitting at the wrong angle, the image is blurry and unwatchable. I think there is a market for VR, but I don't think it's the mass market. That doesn't mean VR won't eventually get there, but it's not there now.
- timecube 11y ago
  The big breakthrough with the Rift CV1 / HTC Vive is a system to track headsets and peripherals in 3D space, allowing for
- timecube 11y ago
  The big breakthrough with the Rift CV1 / HTC Vive is a system to track headsets and peripherals in 3D space, allowing for

ljk 11y ago

Agreed. To look at a monitor, only the eyes have to move; with VR goggles, something needs to be attached to your head AND you'd have to move your whole head to see the environment. Also, is it good to have your eyes focusing on something that close to your face for a long period of time? (not a doctor)

CarVac 11y ago
There are lenses; the image is around 1.5 meters away.
- ljk 11y ago
  didn't realize that, thanks!
DINKDINK 11y ago
>is it good to have your eyes focusing on something that close to your face for a long period of time? The converse thought about the differences between viewing a VR screen vs a 2D monitor. VR Screens you have the capability of your eyes needing to adjust to different depths. That is, the muscles that dictate the position of your eyes will need to be recalibrated slightly when you start viewing entities at different depths. With 2D monitors you're approximately at the same text tracking rate. There's ergonomic software that will periodically instruct you to look away from your computer screen to focus on points in the distance for the health of your eyes.
haydenlee 11y ago
The optics involved mean you aren't focusing 2 inches from your face, with the DK2 you're focusing at 1.3m and the DK1 was at infinity (not sure about CV1). So you could argue its better for eye strain.

rboyd 11y ago

Where this is heading is augmentation that shrinks until it's unnoticeable that you're equipped with anything. Virtual and augmented reality merge, and the display components of traditional products disappear. Everything will get a virtual interface. Gaming will be about as important to mixed reality as gaming is to all of computing today. It's shaping up to be one of the most revolutionary technologies of our generation.

thetmkay 11y ago

One of the reasons why it may lack real-world interest is lack of content. People need to believe in the medium and pioneer content in spite of lack of interest, in hope to generate that interest, or it will remain an unsolved chicken-and-egg problem. I believe Newell and Carmack do want to make high quality "games" in the sense of interactive experiences, and they see VR as an opportunity for that. What's required is patience and dedicated resources, fuelled by early adopters/aspirers.

vocatus_gate 11y ago
That's fair. Seeing an impressive example of the tech put to good use might get me excited about it, something beyond another 3D "walking around" simulator. Maybe it's one of those technologies that needs a breakthrough moment, or to reach critical mass to where mainstream adoption starts occurring. Because right now it feels very "really? We're trying to make this happen again?" to me.
- yazaddaruvala 11y ago
  Actually because of the way your brain and body are linked: a 3D "walking around" simulator, (while sitting stationary) is currently the worst possible VR experience. The best, is piloting a machine - car, plane, etc. You're in a seat, like your real body is. You're waiting for the: experiencing a X-Wing in motion while in a dog fight destroying TIE fighters over Jakku, R2-D2 beeping in your ears demo. If you get the chance try Eve Valkyrie on a DK2. It is one of the closest, currently existing, demos to the one I described above.

horsecaptin 11y ago

I bet opinions like yours were prevalent when 3D games first came out. "This 3D thing is nice, but why don't you just concentrate on making a better videogames?".

theinternetman 11y ago
As someone old enough to remember that time, no one said that.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  As also someone old enough to remember that time, lots of SNES and Sega Genesis owners were saying that. And people were getting sick from Doom at far greater rates than they are today from Oculus Rifts.
  - onli 11y ago
    > And people were getting sick from Doom at far greater rates than they are today from Oculus Rifts. That remains to be seen when VR headsets arrive in households. We just don't know that yet. I got convinced by the tech after trying a Develover Kit, but the that people (inclduing me) will get sick from it is my big concern.
    - kamaal 11y ago
      >>people (inclduing me) will get sick from it is my big concern Sick doesn't mean cancer or tuberclosis. I remember from my childhood watching TV was considered bad, because it was thought to be bad fore one's eyes. Ear phones were bad for the ears and reading on the smart phone in a bus makes me motion sick to date. Like everything there is a middle ground.
      - onli 11y ago
        I mean getting sick, as in having to throw up. A bit like motion sickness, though it is not exactly the same thing. If enough people can't use it because they get uncomfortable from it, because they puke on the floor, that would be a bad thing. I understand that there is a lot of work being done to prevent that. And still I think it is something to look out for.

kamaal 11y ago

A lot of people felt the same way about Smart phones, until cheaper options with decent features arrived. Now nearly every one agrees with the utility of smart phones, to a point most people would find quite difficult to live without one. The same will unfold with VR over coming years. Affordable options with great content and applications can make this a common place gadget. I currently live in a living room, disturbance and lack of privacy are the biggest annoyances. Something like this looks like an ideal way to create a wall of privacy regardless of who is around. The use cases for such a device are uncountable.

nlawalker 11y ago

The best bet for Oculus and VR companies, in my opinion, is not to approach the market assuming that VR is going to be everywhere and used for everything in a few years. Sometimes, that's a safe assumption (like with the iPhone), but with a technology that has as many caveats as VR, marketing the product as if it's going to change everyone's life is the best way to torpedo it. Case in point - Google Glass. I think Glass could have found viability in specific uses, but they marketed as "people are going to wear this everywhere!" and the resulting backlash completely destroyed the concept in the mind of the consumer. Not everything has to be an overnight success, or requires every person on the planet using it to be successful. HDTV took years and years to gain traction, during which time the technology improved and became cheaper by leaps and bounds. I think the current Oculus marketing message - "we know it's expensive; the technology is still improving; we don't really know exactly what the killer apps and best uses cases are for VR yet; this is targeted at hobbyists and people who want to push the envelope and set the stage for the next phase of VR" - is right on. They should stick with that and make sure they don't drift into "VR will revolutionize your life and your social network" territory. Let the early adopters figure out what to do with it.

aresant 11y ago

I literally feel sorry for you, not in an unfriendly way, that you haven't seen the right demo yet and can't share the insane excitement that I have for this technology. This is the FIRST consumer release! This is the Palm Pilot 1 of VR. Yes most of the content right now is mediocre but there are some mindblowing experiences too. For instance Elite Dangerous + DK2 + Motion Sim. It literally feels like you are piloting a craft in outer space. Here's a demo - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqr8ee7GORY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqr8ee7GORY I have a similar rig and I literally have to fight off the skeptics / marginally interested after they try it. The "strap on a clumsy" headset part is going to go away quickly. Every sensor in there is being miniaturized by the day. Magic Leap (and others) are using tricks to project imagery directly onto your retina. The form factor will wind up wireless, probably look similar to google glass. Oculus + 3D audio + input + eventual tactical is going to completely blur the lines of reality in ways we can't yet imagine - gaming, training, social interaction, SEX, therapy, etc, etc - it's all going to be different in 10 years because of VR. I believe that being a student of VR at this point, which I believe will be the top mechanism to consume content in the future, is akin to being an early iphone dev. Plus gave me a good excuse to order the CV1 :)

moron4hire 11y ago
I'm not exaggerating when I say that I couldn't have said it better. After a year, I'm really getting tired of having to explain this to such unimaginative people.
drzaiusapelord 11y ago
>This is the FIRST consumer release! This is the Palm Pilot 1 of VR. Actually, there were multiple VR technologies released in the 90s and 2000s. This isn't like being on the groundfloor of some new concept, its like a revival of something old. I wish Oculus all the luck in the world, but this technology has failed in the market many times. Yes, maybe more FPS and higher resolutions is what was needed, but I guess we'll see. Some 90's products: http://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/a-trip-down-virtual-reality-road-6-systems-of-the-past.html/?a=viewall http://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/a-trip-down-virtual-rea... Its funny how there's this "everything old is new again and we all suddenly have amnesia" attitude with VR advocates. They talk about the headsets which are pricey and annoying to use(and no one has solved the motion sickness problem perfectly yet). They talk about the metaverse, yet we've had Second Life for a decade and it didn't revolutionize anything and is largely an online joke. Whether people think the social and economic cost of strapping a tissue size box to your face is worth it, is worthy of being skeptical about. 3D TV's came at a zero premium over regular TV's not too long ago, and no one wanted to wear those dorky glasses. Many people I know, myself included, avoid the 3D showings at theaters because of how gimmicky it is and how those glasses wash out the colors (not a concern with the Rift). >It literally feels like you are piloting a craft in outer space. You have no idea what its like to be in outer space. You're getting this manufactured and fake experience by game devs who also don't know what its like to be in outer space. That's what really bugs me about this platform, how incredibly fake everything is, yet somehow the marketing is all about it being 'real.' I would love a hardnosed simulator with all the tactile feedback and such involved, instead we're just getting Unity3D shovelware with basic 3D tropes like moving starfields and everyone suddenly thinks this is amazing. Its not. Its just a lot of hype from gamers obsessed with fake experiences and general gamer fanboyism, which is almost always unadulterated hype. Remember the Kinect and all the hype behind it? Its now a dead peripheral: http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/5-ways-xbox-one-kinect-failed-microsoft-and-stiffed-early-adopters-1248505 http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/consoles/5-ways-xbox... Hell, even the crowd friendly Wii motion controls have been put on the "gimmick" shelf after a, maybe, 2 or 3 year period where everyone was raving it was the future of gaming. >t's all going to be different in 10 years because of VR. According to HN/Reddit/Slashdot we'd have jetpacks, space hotels, 500 year lifespans, cancer cures, and robot servants by now. I'd be very careful with the old "just wait 10 years guys, then you'll see my questionable premise was actually right" trope. Ironically, its an antique.

thescriptkiddie 11y ago

Have you tried VR? It sounds like either you haven't, or you did and had a shitty experience - because it wasn't until very recently that VR was even remotely usable. You should give the Oculus a shot when you have a chance. Sure, the headset is annoying to put on. But once you've spent a few hours in a high-quality VR experience, games on a normal monitor just feel clumsy and claustrophobic. Carmack and Newell are going back to producing quality games. Those two have been in semi-retirement for years now, and VR is the thing that finally got them excited to make things again. Those two have been dreaming about VR gaming since the day multiplayer was added to Doom. Also, the trolls still haven't figured out how to downvote here. Don't tip them off.

zardo 11y ago

I think this is a bit like a "pocket PC" in the early 2000's. It was just a toy for nerds, then they got more and more useful, then they got re-branded as smartphones and made it big. You're looking at the Palm Pilot of VR. VR, and mixed reality, is going to get more compelling.

cookiecaper 11y ago

I think you're right. I have a DK-1 and I think it's a cool novelty, but in terms of mass market appeal and everyday uses, I don't really see it. You look weird with the thing on your head, it's heavy and fatigues your neck, you still have to use a kb/mouse input device to control anything other than where your avatar is looking, you can't see anything else around you without pulling the HMD away from your face (bigger annoyance than it sounds), and nobody else can see your screen (in fact, when I used the DK-1, I would often clone the output onto the main monitor so my wife could see what I was seeing and vice-versa). It kills the limited real-life social interaction people can have with video gaming now. 3D TV was very similar in that it worked great for one person, but once you got more than that, you had to make sure everyone had their own pair of glasses, everyone was sitting at an appropriate angle, etc. You couldn't just walk in and out and have a casual social TV experience, because for people without the glasses or sitting at the wrong angle, the image is blurry and unwatchable. I think there is a market for VR, but I don't think it's the mass market. That doesn't mean VR won't eventually get there, but it's not there now.

timecube 11y ago
The big breakthrough with the Rift CV1 / HTC Vive is a system to track headsets and peripherals in 3D space, allowing for
timecube 11y ago
The big breakthrough with the Rift CV1 / HTC Vive is a system to track headsets and peripherals in 3D space, allowing for