8 ms·

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday

I changed my working arrangement to 80% recently, so now I work four 8-hour day weeks. I wholeheartedly recommend it if you can make it work. I have wednesday off, so the week is divided into two-day stretches. Not sure if I'm any more productive (maybe), but I'm a lot happier. I suspect some coworkers are going to follow my lead, now that the precedent has been set.

wslh 11y ago
I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  I never said it was for everyone, but I suspect people magnify the expected issues a lot. Everyone knows I won't be here on wednesdays, so we try to arrange things so I'm not a bottleneck during that time. If some really important deadline shows up, I'll just work the one wednesday and take thursday off instead, it's not a big deal. I haven't needed to yet though. Besides, assuming you're not on a really tiny team, if many parts of your project hinge on one person with no available backup, you have bigger problems related to project management.
  - daveguy 11y ago
    Or you're an early startup. Sometimes hinged-on-one-person is all you have because there are only a few people with some non-overlapping talents.
    - ktistec 11y ago
      The definition of a really tiny team.
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      And? If you know that the person isn't there on Wednesday, you adapt.
- perfunctory 11y ago
  I've had this schedule for about two years now. Never had any syncing issues.
- rogeryu 11y ago
  This is nonsense, although it may depend on the kind of job you have. For most of us, we don't need to be there five days a week. You can plan around that. Of course if you have five people in a team and everybody has a different day off, you can never get together, and that may be a problem. This is the same if you and your colleagues work many days/hours out of the office or at home.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  Pretty much anything can be made to work if it's planned for and executed properly. Our dev process required a lot of meetings and interaction. So in order to ensure clear blocks of working time, we used to set aside days as "no meeting days" Some people would take the opportunity to work from home on those days since it was guaranteed they wouldn't be pulled into a meeting. Once you know Sally, Jared and Kaitlyn won't be in on Tuesdays, you plan around it. It's really not a big deal.
- TranquilMarmot 11y ago
  This happens where I work- one of my coworkers is here Monday - Thursday (10 hour days) but takes Friday off. He's the only one with knowledge of a lot of our legacy systems, so a lot of potential work doesn't happen on Fridays. I'd argue that more of us should learn what he knows to avoid "hit by a bus syndrome" but we don't have enough spare man hours to devote to that.
  - Drdrdrq 11y ago
    You could also just follow his lead and take Fridays off... :) Seriously though, no man should be irreplaceable because of his knowledge, this is some serious risk you are taking.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Why? Is that much going to happen on Wednesday that can't easily be caught up on Thursday?
- ljw1001 11y ago
  That's why everyone works seven days a week.
ybx 11y ago
Nice! The question is not whether or not you're as productive, but rather, are you more than 80% as productive as you were before.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  > The question is not whether or not you're as productive, but rather, are you more than 80% as productive as you were before. Absolutely, that was what I was trying to convey (productivity per hour rather than total productivity) but it was poorly worded. A lot of discussion around shortening the work week focuses on the latter. While there may be cases where that's true, I think focusing the discussion on that is wrong because it assumes that there has to be an economic argument for making the change. For me, people having more free time is a positive in itself that society should probably optimise more for. I am certainly not less productive per hour worked. I might be more productive, I don't know, but that should not be the only reason we contemplate such a change.
perfunctory 11y ago
I am doing exactly the same for quite some time already, but sadly nobody followed my lead yet. I don't loose hope though.
executesorder66 11y ago
How did you manage to arrange that? I can't imagine going to my boss and proposing I spend 20% less time working for the same amount of pay, and getting approval for that.
- seren 11y ago
  GP does not mention the impact on its salary. Usually if you work 80% of your previous time, you are also payed 80% of the previous salary.
  - tukum 11y ago
    Most likely, but taking into consideration taxes the decrease could be smaller. Some countries have progressive income tax. So it depends on salary, but it could be that by working 20% less you receive only 15% less.
    - throwaway7767 11y ago
      Hit the nail on the head. We have a progressive income tax here. The 20% comes from the part of my salary that gets the higher tax bracket. So in fact the decrease in amount I get paid is quite a bit less than 20%. I also suggested this change at the yearly salary interview during which I negotiated a 10% raise. So really the amount I get paid each month didn't change all that much.
  - rufb 11y ago
    You're assuming a fixed workload-based salary. If we're talking about a salary that has a big variable component (commissions, fees, bonuses), the cut may have been smaller.
- fizgig 11y ago
  Who said the pay was the same? I'd be happy to take a 20% pay cut for a 4-day work week at some point in my life. I have a semi-retired relative who does just that. As it is now, I'm vocal at reviews that I'll take more days off per year in lieu of direct salary increase -- an idea which seems to throw people off and hasn't been seriously entertained. At some point, I'll make enough annually, that I'll simply start taking days off without pay, which is something payroll seems to really hate for some reason when it concerns salaried folks. Corporate pay/work expectations are really odd sometimes.
elbows 11y ago
I did the same for several years at my last job (although with Friday off so I had long weekends). It was great and I'd encourage anyone to try it if they can. I definitely felt like it made me more productive per hour worked. A shorter week added a little bit of time pressure that helped me stay focused, and I'd often finish something in four days that might otherwise have stretched to five. Total output was probably a little lower, but I took an equivalent pay cut when I reduced my hours. I was only able to make that arrangement after I'd been at the job for a while. When I changed jobs, I went back to five days a week, and I'm definitely missing the long weekends.
- myth_buster 11y ago
  I too prefer the 4-3 split as it gives me enough contiguous time to concentrate on work and my hobbies.
otakucode 11y ago
Did your salary also drop to 80%? Did other benefits which legally require a 'full time' schedule go away? The worst possible scenario would be workers switching to shorter work weeks, accepting pay cuts and loss of benefits, and proceeding to be more productive for their employer. I mean, unscrupulous employers would love it, but for society it would be terrible.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  > Did your salary also drop to 80%? Yes, sort of. I approached this during the yearly salary interview. I negotiated a 10% raise, and a change in work schedule to 80%. So I'm getting paid 0.8*base_pay, but I didn't just take sudden a 20% cut between months. > Did other benefits which legally require a 'full time' schedule go away? I checked with my union (union membership is mandatory here but they really only negotiate minimum vacation days and minimum salary for a given profession/class, neither of which affects me since I have negotiated above and beyond what they have - it's a very different system than US people are probably familiar with) and according to them, there should be no change to any benefits or legal rights. Things like the fixed christmas bonus will be paid to 80%. > The worst possible scenario would be workers switching to shorter work weeks, accepting pay cuts and loss of benefits, and proceeding to be more productive for their employer. I mean, unscrupulous employers would love it, but for society it would be terrible. I'd rather not work more hours than I really want because my employer might benefit from me doing what I want to. If this concerns you, you can just keep your productivity per hour to the same level as it was before. I have no idea if I'm actually more productive, and I don't really care. What matters to me is I now have an extra day every week to do something that I actually want to be doing, rather than working for someone else. Put another way, if you feel like your skills are undervalued, talk to your employer about a raise. This holds regardless of whether your work proportion is 100% or 80%.
mark_l_watson 11y ago
Just curious: why did you decide to take Wednesday's off instead of Monday or Friday, thus getting three day weekends? Personally, for almost all of my professional life I didn't work Monday's (32 hour work week). That worked out really well for me.
- throwaway7767 11y ago
  I figured it'd be nice to only ever have two-day work stretches. I didn't put much thought into it, just decided to try it and I've been happy with it so far. I feel a lot more energetic on thursdays and fridays now.

wslh 11y ago

I don't think your plan is for everyone since if you need to be synced with a team not working on Wednesdays is negative in the long run.

throwaway7767 11y ago
I never said it was for everyone, but I suspect people magnify the expected issues a lot. Everyone knows I won't be here on wednesdays, so we try to arrange things so I'm not a bottleneck during that time. If some really important deadline shows up, I'll just work the one wednesday and take thursday off instead, it's not a big deal. I haven't needed to yet though. Besides, assuming you're not on a really tiny team, if many parts of your project hinge on one person with no available backup, you have bigger problems related to project management.
- daveguy 11y ago
  Or you're an early startup. Sometimes hinged-on-one-person is all you have because there are only a few people with some non-overlapping talents.
  - ktistec 11y ago
    The definition of a really tiny team.
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    And? If you know that the person isn't there on Wednesday, you adapt.
perfunctory 11y ago
I've had this schedule for about two years now. Never had any syncing issues.
rogeryu 11y ago
This is nonsense, although it may depend on the kind of job you have. For most of us, we don't need to be there five days a week. You can plan around that. Of course if you have five people in a team and everybody has a different day off, you can never get together, and that may be a problem. This is the same if you and your colleagues work many days/hours out of the office or at home.
HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
Pretty much anything can be made to work if it's planned for and executed properly. Our dev process required a lot of meetings and interaction. So in order to ensure clear blocks of working time, we used to set aside days as "no meeting days" Some people would take the opportunity to work from home on those days since it was guaranteed they wouldn't be pulled into a meeting. Once you know Sally, Jared and Kaitlyn won't be in on Tuesdays, you plan around it. It's really not a big deal.
TranquilMarmot 11y ago
This happens where I work- one of my coworkers is here Monday - Thursday (10 hour days) but takes Friday off. He's the only one with knowledge of a lot of our legacy systems, so a lot of potential work doesn't happen on Fridays. I'd argue that more of us should learn what he knows to avoid "hit by a bus syndrome" but we don't have enough spare man hours to devote to that.
- Drdrdrq 11y ago
  You could also just follow his lead and take Fridays off... :) Seriously though, no man should be irreplaceable because of his knowledge, this is some serious risk you are taking.
s73v3r 11y ago
Why? Is that much going to happen on Wednesday that can't easily be caught up on Thursday?
ljw1001 11y ago
That's why everyone works seven days a week.

ybx 11y ago

Nice! The question is not whether or not you're as productive, but rather, are you more than 80% as productive as you were before.

throwaway7767 11y ago
> The question is not whether or not you're as productive, but rather, are you more than 80% as productive as you were before. Absolutely, that was what I was trying to convey (productivity per hour rather than total productivity) but it was poorly worded. A lot of discussion around shortening the work week focuses on the latter. While there may be cases where that's true, I think focusing the discussion on that is wrong because it assumes that there has to be an economic argument for making the change. For me, people having more free time is a positive in itself that society should probably optimise more for. I am certainly not less productive per hour worked. I might be more productive, I don't know, but that should not be the only reason we contemplate such a change.

perfunctory 11y ago

I am doing exactly the same for quite some time already, but sadly nobody followed my lead yet. I don't loose hope though.

executesorder66 11y ago

How did you manage to arrange that? I can't imagine going to my boss and proposing I spend 20% less time working for the same amount of pay, and getting approval for that.

seren 11y ago
GP does not mention the impact on its salary. Usually if you work 80% of your previous time, you are also payed 80% of the previous salary.
- tukum 11y ago
  Most likely, but taking into consideration taxes the decrease could be smaller. Some countries have progressive income tax. So it depends on salary, but it could be that by working 20% less you receive only 15% less.
  - throwaway7767 11y ago
    Hit the nail on the head. We have a progressive income tax here. The 20% comes from the part of my salary that gets the higher tax bracket. So in fact the decrease in amount I get paid is quite a bit less than 20%. I also suggested this change at the yearly salary interview during which I negotiated a 10% raise. So really the amount I get paid each month didn't change all that much.
- rufb 11y ago
  You're assuming a fixed workload-based salary. If we're talking about a salary that has a big variable component (commissions, fees, bonuses), the cut may have been smaller.
fizgig 11y ago
Who said the pay was the same? I'd be happy to take a 20% pay cut for a 4-day work week at some point in my life. I have a semi-retired relative who does just that. As it is now, I'm vocal at reviews that I'll take more days off per year in lieu of direct salary increase -- an idea which seems to throw people off and hasn't been seriously entertained. At some point, I'll make enough annually, that I'll simply start taking days off without pay, which is something payroll seems to really hate for some reason when it concerns salaried folks. Corporate pay/work expectations are really odd sometimes.

elbows 11y ago

I did the same for several years at my last job (although with Friday off so I had long weekends). It was great and I'd encourage anyone to try it if they can. I definitely felt like it made me more productive per hour worked. A shorter week added a little bit of time pressure that helped me stay focused, and I'd often finish something in four days that might otherwise have stretched to five. Total output was probably a little lower, but I took an equivalent pay cut when I reduced my hours. I was only able to make that arrangement after I'd been at the job for a while. When I changed jobs, I went back to five days a week, and I'm definitely missing the long weekends.

myth_buster 11y ago
I too prefer the 4-3 split as it gives me enough contiguous time to concentrate on work and my hobbies.

otakucode 11y ago

Did your salary also drop to 80%? Did other benefits which legally require a 'full time' schedule go away? The worst possible scenario would be workers switching to shorter work weeks, accepting pay cuts and loss of benefits, and proceeding to be more productive for their employer. I mean, unscrupulous employers would love it, but for society it would be terrible.

throwaway7767 11y ago
> Did your salary also drop to 80%? Yes, sort of. I approached this during the yearly salary interview. I negotiated a 10% raise, and a change in work schedule to 80%. So I'm getting paid 0.8*base_pay, but I didn't just take sudden a 20% cut between months. > Did other benefits which legally require a 'full time' schedule go away? I checked with my union (union membership is mandatory here but they really only negotiate minimum vacation days and minimum salary for a given profession/class, neither of which affects me since I have negotiated above and beyond what they have - it's a very different system than US people are probably familiar with) and according to them, there should be no change to any benefits or legal rights. Things like the fixed christmas bonus will be paid to 80%. > The worst possible scenario would be workers switching to shorter work weeks, accepting pay cuts and loss of benefits, and proceeding to be more productive for their employer. I mean, unscrupulous employers would love it, but for society it would be terrible. I'd rather not work more hours than I really want because my employer might benefit from me doing what I want to. If this concerns you, you can just keep your productivity per hour to the same level as it was before. I have no idea if I'm actually more productive, and I don't really care. What matters to me is I now have an extra day every week to do something that I actually want to be doing, rather than working for someone else. Put another way, if you feel like your skills are undervalued, talk to your employer about a raise. This holds regardless of whether your work proportion is 100% or 80%.

mark_l_watson 11y ago

Just curious: why did you decide to take Wednesday's off instead of Monday or Friday, thus getting three day weekends? Personally, for almost all of my professional life I didn't work Monday's (32 hour work week). That worked out really well for me.

throwaway7767 11y ago
I figured it'd be nice to only ever have two-day work stretches. I didn't put much thought into it, just decided to try it and I've been happy with it so far. I feel a lot more energetic on thursdays and fridays now.