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The Disappearance of Self in Japan
- smegel 11y agoYou know if you go to Japan, beneath the mystique is a fairly normal country with fairly normal people going about fairly normal day to day lives.
- onetwotree 11y agoI'm a big fan of Zen and it's ilk, but the Japan fetish in this article is way too strong. I bet the author thinks that samurai swords were way better than their contemporaries in Europe
- mhurron 11y agoThey could cut through a tank. I saw it on the internet.
- JetSpiegel 11y agoThey can cut through an SUV (Audi, if I'm not mistaken) engine block, though. I saw it on Matrix Revolutions.
- Retric 11y agoThe odd part of this is they had far worse armor. Western knights where shockingly fast and well protected in full plate armor. 1 on 1 a knight would have been far more effective vs. a samurai. The problem is Knights where far more expensive to equip and ended up as far less than 1% of the population. This is the huge advantage the Mongols had. They could field 'huge' (relative to population size) and devastatingly effective army's on the cheap. Often Mongols still ended up outnumbered by as much as 10-1, but mobility allowed them to avoid highly defended areas. PS: I wonder how much the cost of medieval armor contributed to long term economic growth. Sort of the medieval equivalent of modern military innovations (computers, internet, radar, etc.) being useful in peace time.
- digitalengineer 11y agoOne armored knight on a trained (and also armored) fighting hore equaled a tank. See the so-called "squadron charge": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Knights_Templar
- bpodgursky 11y agoYeah, this annoys me. Japanese swords were folded over hundreds of times not because it was a superior crafting technique, but because they were using inferior steel with more impurities.
- dragontamer 11y agoDamascus Steel is probably the coolest kind of sword from the past. Carbon nanotubes have been found in ancient Damascus steel swords, proving that the advanced metallurgy strengthened Damascus Steel above and beyond all other steel of that era. And while Japanese metallurgy exists today... the secret of Damascus steel has been lost in time. No one knows how to make it anymore. --------------- With regards to Katanas vs Longswords... Katanas are almost equivalent to Long Swords. The martial arts between the two styles are relatively similar. Sometimes Katanas were dual-wielded with wakizashi, while Long Swords would sometimes be dual-wielded with a dagger. Sometimes Katanas are wielded with two hands, but sometimes you switch to one-hand for extra reach. Ditto with Long Swords (being used with "Bastard Sword" style) ------------ In all cases, the fetish with swords is universal across cultures. Polearms were the king of the battlefield in both the West and in the East... and the favored weapons of soldiers, and yet the stories all glorify sword-wielders. Swords were expensive in all cultures, and are therefore associated with the respective nobility class.
- Balgair 11y agoMeh, you can get carbon nanotubes out of soot too [0], they occur in any high carbon and high temp environment. Their existence in something is not proof that metallurgy is advanced in any sense, just luck. European and Japanese fighting styles are also very different, as the katana is made with much more brittle steels [1]. In Japan, the block is not hard and the other blade has to slide along your's to not break the sword. You use Damascus steel if your steel is of poor quality or you don't have the chemical know how to make good steel. You do what you can with what you have. Still, swords cost a lot to make and end up as a status symbol. Look at the Japanese officers in WW2 [2]. [0]http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044580305001051 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1044580305... [1]https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/5729/how-do-tamahagane-damascus-and-toledo-steel-compare https://history.stackexchange.com/questions/5729/how-do-tama... [2]https://41.media.tumblr.com/ab40ee35c57c64a56570035045f61c4e/tumblr_nwhsjgxrz01tjjchto1_500.jpg https://41.media.tumblr.com/ab40ee35c57c64a56570035045f61c4e...
- smegel 11y agoI was aiming my comment at HN as much as the article.
- Steko 11y ago> the Japan fetish in this article is way too strong Seems like a common thread from the author, see yesterday's submission re: Ikiru. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10839344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10839344 But his pseudo-nihonjinron* is nothing compared to the Traditional European Martial Arts (Which are Much Better Than Japan's Didntchaknow) circlejerk we have going on in sibling comments. If I'm ever at a ren faire I plan to walk around and every few minutes loudly say "dude you should have brought your katana, you'd own everyone so hard" just to watch peoples' heads explode. * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihonjinron
- onetwotree 11y agoHa! Agreed.
- sageabilly 11y agoNo but you see, the Japanese sleep on the floor and they're all really really smart, so if my family sleeps on the floor instead of in a typical Western bed then we'll all be smarter like the Japanese. Plus their civilization is really ancient and they know so much about mindfulness and plants and stuff Actual words that have been spoken to me by an adult woman with two kids.
- sliverstorm 11y agoI feel compelled to mention- while staying in Japan I discovered buckwheat hull pillows, which have not made me smarter but are very comfortable and nice in the summer.
- tadfisher 11y agoFunny, I discovered those on the Home Shopping Network in the 90s.
- yongjik 11y agoI wouldn't argue against some Japanese people being really really smart, but they have a rather shortish history (in Old World standard): recorded history begins around ~250 AD. By that time Egypt had fallen and Rome was past its prime.
- nmnmnmnmnm001 11y agoRoman culture is gone. Ancient Egyptian culture is gone.
- mc32 11y agoSo is ancient Japanese culture.
- digitalengineer 11y agoOf course not. New cultures were build up on their remains. Such is Europe.
- brazzledazzle 11y agoThere is a point in there about how we view ourselves in the context of others in "the west" vs. how someone in Japan views themselves in the context of others. The whole thing could be readily replaced by the bit about the shop keeper and a couple of paragraphs though.
- draw_down 11y agoI don't mean to endorse the content of the article, but what you wrote is true for every country. And we know that every country isn't the same, so I question the relevance of pointing out that most Japanese people are normal and live mostly normal lives.
- gozur88 11y agoThe relevance would be there are a lot of people out there who don't actually realize it's true. News from Japan generally comes in two flavors: "Look how weird these people are." and "Japanese people aren't having kids, so Japan is doomed. DOOMED, I tell ya."
- coldtea 11y agoWell, both of those statements can be true. First, sure, Japanese people, as we all still shit from their behinds, work everyday for money and snore when they sleep -- that's not the real point of comparison. But for the average US person for example, the culture, historical legacy and customs of Japan can seem totally foreign [1]. Second, yes, if Japanese people aren't having kids, Japan can be doomed, in the sense of population decline, economic and job issues, etc. They're not that much if favor of integrating immigrants either. It's not like it's unprecedented. Populations have dwindled to the point of it being a major issue for lots of ethnicities/communities worldwide in the past. [1] and vise versa, although US culture is already familiar to minute detail everywhere to ordinary citizens -- from exposure to tons of US movies, tv series, songs, news programs, websites and books -- Japanese culture outside of Japan not so much, except to Nippofiles and Anime fans, which are far from the majority.
- gozur88 11y ago>But for the average US person for example, the culture, historical legacy and customs of Japan can seem totally foreign. It's no more true for Japan than it is for anywhere. People who get all their information from the western press and then actually go to Japan come away shocked at how normal everything is. It would be like people in other countries forming their opinions on the US based on the Castro district in San Francisco during the '70s. >Second, yes, if Japanese people aren't having kids, Japan can be doomed, in the sense of population decline, economic and job issues, etc. There are 127 million people in Japan. If the population shrinks by 35 million or so they'll have about the same number of people they had at the start of WW II. And they'll be a lot better for it, too. Certainly any time you have a pay-go pension scheme there are difficulties with a shrinking population, but it's nothing they can't manage. As far as taking in immigrants, what Japan is doing makes a lot more sense that what the US or the Europeans are doing. I don't blame people who don't want to have to choose, at age 60, between immersion in a foreign culture and moving from the place they've lived for decades.
- Machia-velli 11y agoNo, Japan is far from being just another normal country, according to Dr 'Debito Arudou-有道 出人'[1][2] a naturalized Japanese and also a writer, blogger, and human rights activist, Japan is one of the most xenophobic, racist and bigoted countries in the world. [1]: http://www.debito.org/ http://www.debito.org/ [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debito_Arudou
- koko775 11y agoDebito Arudou is an angry knee-jerk reactionary, and anything he says should /definitely/ be taken with a grain of salt.
- Machia-velli 11y agoAnything he says is based on a 25 years of first hand experience and research of living and working in Japan. Resorting to name-calling and unfounded ad-hominem attacks only shows a lack of arguments from your side and nothing else.
- level3 11y agoDebito had some relevance in the 90s in raising awareness of issues regarding foreigners in Japan, but he is definitely not an authority on Japan, regardless of how many years he has been here. His experience (of apparently constantly experiencing outrageous racism) does not really align with many others' here, which suggests that part of it is over-reaction, intentionally or not.
- jpatokal 11y agoDavid, is that you? Anyway, here's some arguments: https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/2u8k66/why_is_debito_arudou_so_angry_all_the_time/ https://www.reddit.com/r/japan/comments/2u8k66/why_is_debito... He's also amped up the bile level considerably after his (very bitter) divorce and leaving the country -- at last check he was in Hawaii.
- koko775 11y ago
- rasz_pl 11y agosure http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/rkRVkB.gif http://media.boingboing.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/rkRVk...
- ekianjo 11y agoAgree. Trying to see Zen in every cultural aspect is pushing it way too far. Especially since spirituality is a pretty shallow thing in Japan for the large majority of people.
- yarou 11y agoThere is no doubt that there is a large degree of influence from Taoist, Confucian, Buddhist, Shinto and even Hindu (people seem to forget this for some reason) philosophy in Japanese culture today. I agree that Zen is not expressed in every cultural aspect, but by and large it is there. Look, for example, at the collective reaction to the Fukushima disaster. If that Stoicism isn't an expression of Zen philosophy, I don't know what is.
- ekianjo 11y ago> Look, for example, at the collective reaction to the Fukushima disaster. If that Stoicism isn't an expression of Zen philosophy, I don't know what is. What are you talking about? Many people in Japan, even in the media, were revolted by the inaction of the government. Stoicism is maybe what you see from outside, but internally it's definitely not the case. And look at the recent demonstrations in Japan against the change of constitution regarding Japanese military scope. You call that Stoicism ?
- dfcowell 11y agoCurrently sitting in a cafe in Osaka. Can confirm. Life is pretty normal. People appear normal. Will report back if situation changes.
- smegel 11y agoI envy you. Out of interest, what do you do (if not a tourist)?
- dfcowell 11y agoI'm one of those digital nomad types. Currently operating a web dev agency in HK and Australia, but planning an expansion into Japan. Already got a small team of contractors here. Currently working through the paperwork to get my visa and company incorporation sorted here. P.S. Situation is still notable in its normalcy.
- labster 11y agoBe sure to keep us informed if there's anything out of the ordinary. We're relying on you!
- smegel 11y agoDo you have a blog? I am currently in Australia, and actually becoming a digital nomad is a kind of dream of mine. Not really sure how to make it a reality though...it seems that webdev/online contracting is such a saturated and race to the bottom pool.
- michaelbuddy 11y agoPico Iyer the author should not be writing or submitting for the Huff Post. A person has to have standards.
- maw 11y agoToo true, although you could have stopped after the word "writing". :) I quickly decided that the article was full of crap and closed the tab. I only learned that it was written by one of the authors fullest of shit in a world full of many full of shit authors due to your comment.
- jessaustin 11y agoHe should have you write a dust jacket blurb for his next book. One of the authors fullest of shit in a world full of many full of shit authors, Pico Iyer has crammed his latest masterpiece absolutely full of the stuff. You won't read another book fuller of shit this year!
- S4M 11y agoAnd after reading that book, you will be able to use it to fertilize your crops!
- coldtea 11y agoHas it gone into full blown Reddit here?
- maw 11y agoWhen his people approach my people about it I'll make sure you get your share of the proceeds. I couldn't take full credit for it in good conscience.
- powvans 11y agoAfter reading this comment, I Googled "pico iyer full of crap" and this comment was the second result. I was hoping to get some insight into why you guys have such a negative reaction to this guy. Instead I found out that Google has gotten scary fast at indexing.
- unholythree 11y agoFirst, I'd be pissed at the asshole that failed to tie their boat up properly. Second, I'd be excited at the prospect of a free boat.
- icanhackit 11y agoI think the author's location skews their perspective. Kyoto is quite different culturally to the big cities, and you'll find the same kind of "individualism" that you find in Western cities in Tokyo etc. By "individualism" I mean the poisoned kind where you're defined by the articles-of-self you've purchased, whether it's a Gucci bag on your shoulder, a collection of charms dangling from your wrist, where you go to eat and what phone you have as opposed to the form of individualism which is to define yourself by what you do and how you conduct yourself.
- sosborn 11y ago> Kyoto is quite different culturally to the big cities Having lived in and around Kyoto I would disagree. There are some minor differences, but it doesn't add up to a major difference.
- threeseed 11y agoI've lived in Kyoto and Tokyo and tend to agree with you there. Although people outside of Tokyo are much friendlier in general. Which is the same of most big cities/areas outside of them.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- chrismealy 11y agoA linguist once told me (angrily) that Japanese sentences do have subjects, they're just very easily implied from context.
- rangibaby 11y agoIt's another "theory about Japanese" (日本人論), people making stuff up that makes the Japanese sound unique, like that Japanese are descended from different apes than other races, or that Japan is the only country with four seasons. Every country or people have their own ideas about how they are awesome, but I think I noticed it here because I'm an outsider.
- justusw 11y agoI think in the end 日本人論 is just another form of supremacy, in this case Japanese. Notice the contrast to American exceptionalism, where a reason for USA Number 1 is often not needed, whereas nihonjinron usually requires some reasoning as to why the Japanese language is superior, or why Japanese brains are better, or why Japanese culture is exceptional. It is a very self-conscious way of exceptionalism :) To be honest, I'm quite sick of any cultural glorification from any country. But given how Japan never went through a cleansing after their fascism (unlike east/west-germany after '45 and '68) I can understand that there is not a lot of self-awareness in that regard. In some sense the youth is trying to distance itself from the problematic past by becoming apathetic consumerists. Every time one of these articles crop up, I feel that someone is viewing Japanese through some heavily rose tinted glasses.
- danharaj 11y agoCan't be the only one who omits subject and copula in informal English communication..
- ekianjo 11y agoYes there is almost never any ambiguity.
- spdionis 11y agoOn the other hand in English the subject is required. It is not in the other languages I know. Funny...
- Datsundere 11y agoJIBUNWO
- dicemoose 11y agoPutting aside the content of the article, the photo of the "Cherry tree with temple in background. Chubu Region, Nagano Prefecture, Japan. " is actually a photo of Matsumoto Castle (in Nagano Prefecture).
- ekianjo 11y agoMistaking a castle for a temple in an article about Japan is a pretty big tip whoever did it is deeply ignorant.
- WildUtah 11y agoShows you Pico's editor picked the pictures.
- dfcowell 11y agoCame here to say this. I'm also pretty certain that the picture of the boat on the lake is a painting, not a photo. 28 years of living in Japan and the author can't identify Matsumoto Castle (one of the country's most notable) at a glance? Not a good start.
- enjo 11y agoThe author likely had nothing to do with the photo.
- jpatokal 11y agoAs noted, they likely had nothing to do with it... but I take all of Iyer's writing about Japan with a grain of salt, because despite those 28 years, he can't read a word of Japanese and is apparently proud of it. http://www.onbeing.org/program/pico-iyer-the-art-of-stillness/transcript/7635 http://www.onbeing.org/program/pico-iyer-the-art-of-stillnes...
- dahdum 11y agoThanks for pointing that out, considering he can't really participate in the culture or even read Japanese literature he has a pretty limited perspective I wager. From article: ------------ I can't read — I can't — to this day, I can't read or write Japanese. And I'm at the mercy of things around me. I can't have the illusion that I'm on top of things. Japan was a place that I had a huge amount to learn from, and I'm still learning it.
- FreedomToCreate 11y agoFor anyone who didn't take the time to read the entire thing,go back and find the section about the shopkeepers and read that. It pretty much sums out what the author is trying to get at.
- mavdi 11y agoI've been very lucky to have visited Japan. I can say, having visited many other places, there is no such place like it. The social awareness of the Japanese people is on a level never seen elsewhere. One truly great nation, with a truly great population.
- PeCaN 11y agoSocial awareness? I'd be interested if you elaborate, what makes them more "socially aware" than any other culture? What do you think about the alleged xenophobia? Personally I'd love to visit Japan sometime.
- afroviking 11y agoFew examples I've observed on my 3 month visit there that I haven't seen anywhere else: 1. You can walk in the crowd at the shibuya crossing with your wallet sticking out of your back pocket filled with cash and not worry about getting pick pocketed. 2. Everyone carries around a portable ash tray with them when they smoke and never throw cigarette butts on the ground. 3. No one throws any trash on the ground. Garbage cans are hard to find too and everyone just carries their trash with them.
- wdewind 11y ago> Garbage cans are hard to find too and everyone just carries their trash with them. I was told this is a relic of the sarin gas attacks in the Tokyo subway.
- alexmat 11y agoYou don't need "social awareness" to explain any of your observations: 1) Low income inequality / strong welfare system 2) This is actually a counter example. Nothing more socially offensive than second hand smoke. 3) Trash cans disappeared from the streets of Tokyo shortly after the sarin gas subway attack by Aum Shinrikyo in 1995, and they've never reappeared.
- 11y ago
- known 11y agoI'd begin with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
- twblalock 11y agoAnd https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essentialism
- mirimir 11y ago> As a result, perhaps, my Japanese neighbors seem unusually good at adapting themselves to circumstance -- fire or nuclear meltdown, sudden earthquake or infidelity (to which the local response is nearly always "It can't be helped") -- and unusually good at following orders (hence, perhaps, their celebrated brutality in war). But orders come from somewhere, no? From some self, no?