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i'm usually quite thick skinned about these things... and maybe I am reading too much into it, but using a stereotypically racist American/English misspelling o
by jheriko 11y ago
i'm usually quite thick skinned about these things... and maybe I am reading too much into it, but using a stereotypically racist American/English misspelling of an arab name to convey some amount of untrustworthyness?
(the same could be said about used car salesmen... but i am not one of those)
this rubs me up a bit wrong... as humorous as the intent is.
- 13of40 11y ago> a stereotypically racist American/English misspelling I think the author of the bug was British. If you look at the user agent line at the top of the bug, the culture is "en-GB", and the phrase "who knows a bit about computers" sounds like British (or possibly Indian) English.
- zenir 11y agoIt rubs me wrong that nobody here considers that maybe the guy is really called Achmed. But then the joke is on you I guess
- eric_the_read 11y agoI think pretty much exactly the same trustworthiness is implied by "Crazy Eddie's Root Certificates and Bait Shop."
- hughw 11y agoThat would have been as good, and inoffensive.
- djrogers 11y agoI think Uncle Eddie might disagree...
- slavik81 11y agoWhy does Achmed have to represent his entire race while Eddie can just represent himself? It seems like the default is 'white' == 'safe', which really doesn't help minorities.
- jheriko 11y agobecause only an english speaker partaking in casual racism would, imo, label a stereotypical arab as 'achmed'. from what i've seen its an exceptionally rare spelling of the name born of parody of the difficulties english speakers have with the 'h' (which is not the 'phlegm' sound btw) if we call him tommy he is english, hans and he is german, pierre and he is french... achmed is the arab, with a badly spelled name out of ignorance to boot.
- mikeash 11y agoIt wouldn't have been as good, because then you lose the reference to the Iranian hacker who compromised Comodo.
- smoyer 11y agoNow you're offending citizens of the great country of New Jersey (as well as those who self-identify as "insane").
- eridius 11y agoThis rubs me the wrong way as well. I can understand the intent behind the ticket, but the whole thing seems racist and makes me rather uncomfortable.
- brighteyes 11y agoIt's fine if it makes you uncomfortable. That's an opportunity to introspect and find out why exactly it makes you feel that way. It's a learning opportunity. It's also fine if it "seems racist" to you - another opportunity, to see if it actually is. In this case, it isn't; if anything, it's making a joke in the opposite direction, as other comments point out.
- eridius 11y agoWhat? It's not a learning opportunity. It makes me uncomfortable because it looks like it's racist. There's nothing to introspect there. And it looks like it's racist because, honestly, it is actually a little racist. Don't get me wrong, after reading about Comodo I get why they went with Arabic names, but that doesn't mean it's not still racist. The actual satire could have worked without the racism, and yes, racism can be funny in the right contexts. But none of that means that it's not actually racist at some level. And it's better to acknowledge that, yes, it's a little racist, than it is to try and claim that it's not.
- yareally 11y ago> "using a stereotypically racist American/English misspelling of an arab name to convey some amount of untrustworthyness?" People do have this name[1][2] so it's not exactly a misspelling. Not a very common one though. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad#Other_spellings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad#Other_spellings [2] http://hamariweb.com/names/muslim/arabic/boy/achmed-meaning_1105 http://hamariweb.com/names/muslim/arabic/boy/achmed-meaning_...
- jheriko 11y agotbh, i was judging too quickly given that i don't have masses of experience with this... but i still think the intent of a stereotypical name is there. my reasoning was: 1.) never seen an arab transliterate the name this way. ahmed, ahmad and akhmed... but the k tends to symbolise a different letter (and sound) present in the arabic too. (so this turns out to be a flawed piece of thinking) 2.) the first time i saw this spelling was as 'achmed the dead terrorist', which has biased me. (p.s. i find that very funny, and i think the difference is that the comedian is specifically mocking a group of people who definitely exist vs. using an arab name to imply terrorism [or dishonesty or incompetence... or anything]) i'm sure its not meant with any particular ill will towards arabs, but i can't shake that feeling that this is some casual racism...
- meowface 11y agoYou are the first person I've met who finds Jeff Dunham's comedy funny.
- lwhalen 11y agoPleased to make your acquaintance. I suppose this makes me the second...
- meowface 11y agoI find him the least funny professional comic I've personally seen. Even as a pretty young child, watching him on TV for even a few minutes made me cringe. It felt like humor aimed at 12-year-old boys or rednecks. Dane Cook is a comedy genius compared to him.
- hughw 11y agoI agree. There's a benign interpretation too -- the author might protest that it's America, and there are plenty of flim-flammers of all races. But it's insensitive, and the post could've been equally funny without invoking the stereotype. In another context besides a global community of open source programmers and users, it might be OK.
- peteretep 11y agoWith all the talk of uncles and cousins, I wonder if the submitter may be of Middle Eastern or South Asian persuasian - I don't think it would occur to most accidental racists.
- nikolay 11y agoWhy are you guys so sensitive? It makes you weaker, not superior. People say all kinds of things to manipulate others, make them vulnerable, etc., and if one's going to waste their few moments granted on this planet dealing with non-issues like this - it's just a poor strategy. And, by the way, you're insensitive toward people who are even less sensitive. Edit: I have kids, they get home crying, because people call them this or that. So, it's time to grow up.
- roywiggins 11y agoIf someone's a mild jerk, saying "Hey, you were kind of being a jerk back there, seemed unnecessarily mean, knock it off" isn't being sensitive, it's asserting yourself. Sure, pick your battles, obviously. Nobody is suggesting violent jihad against the author. "Hey, this reads as a bit racist to me" isn't really "crying to mommy/daddy", it's expressing an opinion on the text. Legislating what is and isn't an appropriate (ie, "not oversensitive") opinion on a text is counterproductive.
- jheriko 11y agoI only mentioned it because I normally don't give a crap about these kinds of things. I am genuinely surprised that I am even slightly offended by this... its not a rational choice. p.s. I am doing this as I wind down after a long day of productive work. I wouldn't assume that anyone browsing HN places particular value on the discussion here beyond its own intrinsic value... its certainly not wasting my precious few moments. (pps. i did not downvote, but upvoted, because conflicting and honest opinions are vital to healthy discussion, and yours is perfectly valid imo).
- nikolay 11y agoThank you! I didn't mean anything personal, just wanted to make a point on how valuable time is and that we should focus on real issues such as colonizing the space, curing cancer, MRSA, diabetes, CVD - you name them, reverse time, eradicate poverty, and countless others. Often we do exactly what the offenders want - to get outraged and enter the vicious circle that's often hard to escape. I think ignoring such attempts is the harshest penalty.
- mitchtbaum 11y ago> this rubs me up a bit wrong... That's part of the joke!! :D You see, (imho) this means to attack our poor security, not your sensibilities. It plays on (y)our social programming to add an element of ^^terror boogy-men^^ wooooo... that peddlers of this security industry and their friends sell us on, though those in connected industries use much more physical "protections". (again imho) We need to get past this `cultureA v. cultureB` etc as anything but a con, worth only ridicule, scorn, and occasionally humor.
- mikeash 11y agoThis joke bug was in response to the Comodo hack, which is believed to have been carried out by an Iranian hacker. I imagine the name was intended to be a reference to that person, not just a generic "Arab-sounding name = terrorist" sort of thing. (I know they speak Persian, not Arabic, in Iran, but it looks like the name exists in that language too.)
- inoop 11y agoI think 'honest Achmed' is just used as a stock character here, like 'the town drunk', 'the jewish-american princess', 'the frat boy', 'the absent minded professor', 'the indian store clerk', etc. That doesn't mean stock characters can't be offensive or racist of course, but in this case I don't think joke is at the expense of the Arab people in general.
- camgunz 11y agoIt bothered me too, thanks for posting about it.