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Wi-Fi Alliance introduces low power, long range Wi-Fi HaLow
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- ausjke 11y agohttp://www.afar.net/tutorials/900-mhz-versus-2.4-ghz/ http://www.afar.net/tutorials/900-mhz-versus-2.4-ghz/ 900Mhz does not buy much for distance, however it works better under difficult line-of-sight situations comparing to 2.4Ghz. For real long-distance 4xx/3xxMhz might be better, or even the frequency we used for FM/AM radios.
- ausjke 11y agoTI etc has those decent 9xx/4xx/3xxMhz chips for long time, it's just that they were not wifi-certified.
- horsecaptin 11y agoSo, can my Macbook connect to a HaLow router, or is this a new protocol that will require all new hardware across the board?
- tomkinstinch 11y agoIt looks like this runs in the 900MHz ISM (US) band, so we'll all need new hardware. The longer range is nice. Interference from other 900MHz transmitters (cordless house phones, baby monitors, etc.) may not be. It seems everything old[1] is new again. 1. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaveLAN https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WaveLAN
- voltagex_ 11y agoI wonder if this will get any traction outside of the US - there are lots of places where 433MHz is the ISM band.
- voltagex_ 11y agoI'd hope no one's phone is running in 900MHz - what does DECT use in North America?
- Someone1234 11y ago1.9 GHz
- samstave 11y agoSo signal drops every time you use the microwave... No thanks.
- mizzao 11y agoI thought microwaves (oven) mostly interfere with the 2.4 GHz band. That's why games of Starcraft always lag out when one of the players starts cooking a hot pocket. That's why it's preferable to use 5 GHz 802.11n or 802.11ac, unless you have walls that block the higher frequencies. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Heating_and_power_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave#Heating_and_power_ap...
- samstave 11y agoDuh, you'd be correct. I had a brain-fart
- tjohns 11y agoGiven that it runs at 900 MHz, it will require new hardware. At a minimum, it will require an antenna tuned for the new band, in addition to whatever changes to the WiFi baseband processor are needed to go along with it.
- porsupah 11y agoNot exclusively, by the sound of it - the press release notes "Many devices that support Wi-Fi HaLow are expected to operate in 2.4 and 5 GHz as well as 900 MHz".
- tjohns 11y agoI interpreted the press release to indicate that WiFi HaLow will be 900 MHz only, but can coexist with traditional WiFi implementations on 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz. (The Wikipedia page seems to confirm this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ah) Just like when 5 GHz was added, this means getting a new WiFi card -- but that card could support all three bands at the same time. So this would mean while you're near an AP you'll be on "classic" 2.4/5 GHz, but when you roam further away it would switch to 900 MHz "HaLow" for longer range.
- porsupah 11y agoIndeed, it does sound like that's the case. Thanks for the clarification.
- vvladymyrov 11y agoThis standard is targeted to low power consuming devices. So the question is more like "Will the new HaLow devices be able to connect to my home router". And looks like the answer is they won't.
- RobAley 11y agoI think after a while they will. Wifi chips supporting both current frequency bands cost pennies at the moment, if this standard gets some foothold it won't be too long before it's added in to generic chips.
- Kadin 11y agoIt looks neat, but it's hard not to be cynical about yet another competing standard for low-power "smart home" / IoT-type devices, just to muddy the ZigBee vs. Z-Wave vs. BT LE Longrange vs. conventional WiFi waters a bit more. Not saying there's anything wrong with the protocol per se; it's probably perfectly fine. But the lack of widespread standardization in the 900MHz ISM low power space is really crippling what could otherwise be a robust market for smart devices. That's the key problem, rather than anything technical, and adding yet another option for hardware designers to choose from seems unlikely to improve things in the near future.
- rblatz 11y agoI agree, the wink hub already ships with something like 5 different radios. Also this doesn't look like it supports mesh networking. What advantages does it offer over z-wave or zigbee? And will it be better than Insteon's or Lurton's protocols?
- TD-Linux 11y agoIt supports IP, which is a nice benefit for interoperability and standalone usage (it doesn't require a "smart" hub that understands all of the protocols).
- rblatz 11y agoBut it does require a bunch of smart apps that can speak the language for each device you toss on the network.
- tilect1 11y agoLoRa mesh networking, not too many details but it appears to be possible: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdejQkTdC6o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdejQkTdC6o
- roymurdock 11y agoRelevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/927/ https://xkcd.com/927/
- blhack 11y agoThere used to be a good wikipedia article about LoraWan, which is better than this (for IoT) in just about every way, but it has been replaced with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRaWAN https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LoRaWAN LoraWan consumes power at a similar rate that BLE does, except it has a 20km range. You're talking about months (or even years, depending on your interval) of usefulness out of a CR2032 coincell battery. Sidenote: the removal of the wikipedia page on this irks me more than it probably should. They're claiming a copyright problem because some of the text of the page was taken from the Lora Alliance's official website. https://www.lora-alliance.org/What-Is-LoRa/Technology https://www.lora-alliance.org/What-Is-LoRa/Technology
- mschuster91 11y ago> They're claiming a copyright problem because some of the text of the page was taken from the Lora Alliance's official website. Stolen content (i.e. content not explicitly licensed as GFDL/CC by the author) is stolen content.
- blhack 11y ago>Stolen content (i.e. content not explicitly licensed as GFDL/CC by the author) is stolen content. Do you mean by wikipedia's definition of stolen? Because some things, like for instance: the description of Lora taken from the website that exists to provide descriptions of Lora to people, has an implicit usability. Like I said, this irked me more than it probably should. I totally get sometimes stuff will get caught in the margins.
- mschuster91 11y agoWikipedia's mission is NOT about usability, but to provide an encyclopedia that can be used, edited, forked, reproduced EVERYWHERE without anyone having to fear lawyer attacks. It's not a "free as in free beer" encyclopedia, it's a "free as in truly free" encyclopedia. (Yes I know that this is only valid for the text content, images (e.g. logos) and screenshots are not free but used under different legal regimes in different countries)
- noselasd 11y agoHow long is "long range" going to be ?
- MetricMike 11y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33-centimeter_band https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/33-centimeter_band has more info on the 900MHz band they're using, which is an odd choice because it isn't recognized outside Region 2 (Americas).
- Daneel_ 11y ago900MHz seems a curious choice to me as an Australian, because I know my mobile phone uses 850 and 900MHz to talk to the mobile towers. Attempting to use 900MHz for wifi wouldn't get you very far due to all the interference.
- lovelearning 11y agoNot to mention all the regulatory hurdles.
- kentt 11y agoWould this interfere with phones that operate on the 800MHz frequency?
- mwsherman 11y agoThis is about minimizing power-per-range, not maximizing range itself. IoT devices have very local utility, one assumes. I do like the idea of regular laptop-and-tablet Wifi having better range. But in dense environments, that might be an anti-feature: more interference from more (distant) neighbors. Suburban/rural might be the best use case.
- Gibbon1 11y agoI more would like the idea of laptops and smartphones being able to talk directly with low cost smart home stuff like your thermostat without having to have bridges or pay someone for access through some 'your data is now our data not yours' cloud services
- bsder 11y agoI'd be happy if they just spec'd a 2mW WiFi, thanks. The fact that I can see my neighbor's WiFi is actually a hindrance, not a benefit, nowadays.
- smt88 11y agoIncreasing WiFi range doesn't mean much for most consumers, but it's hugely important for deploying WiFi to large public spaces (city streets, offices, parks, etc.) (On an unrelated note, the fact that you can see your neighbor's WiFi seems like one of the smallest imaginable hindrances and a terrible reason to reconsider WiFi innovation goals.)
- Gibbon1 11y agoI'm somewhat concerned about LoRa and things like it for that reason. Having a transmitter emitting energy in your band is bad. But having a bunch of transmitters emitting coherent energy you're receiver can detect it worse. The former just cuts down your signal to noise. The latter directly limits your available bandwidth. Which is to say, if your radio detects the beginning of a weak packet from far away it's locked down for the duration. Can't transmit, can't receive another stronger packet that arrives slightly later.
- hodwik2 11y agoLoraWan is inherently monolithic. There is only supposed to be one LoraWan provider, who acts as the router, and passes traffic to receiver according to their address -- just like a cell tower. You don't have a hundred cell towers, you have 3.
- yaantc 11y agoNot so. Sigfox has a single operator model: they're the only operator for their proprietary technology. But LoRa is multi-operator: anyone can buy LoRa base station and deploy their network (it's in unlicensed spectrum). And it's already happening this way. So several operators and even technologies will share the same limited unlicensed spectrum. Should be interesting when it scales...
- aceperry 11y agoSome very cool features included, I especially like using 900 MHz. I hope the WiFi Alliance doesn't pull the licensing crap that Bluetooth SIG has.
- ksec 11y agoI am pretty sure there are many, if not most developed countries which has their GSM Network working on 900Mhz. How is that going to work out?
- Tepix 11y agoI hope we see a 8011.ah version of the ESP8266 soon. A solar powered GK-RadMon (https://sites.google.com/site/diygeigercounter/gk-radmon https://sites.google.com/site/diygeigercounter/gk-radmon) would be the perfect device for this new standard.
- Tepix 11y agoWi-Fi HaLow has a chance of success if it can be integrated into regular Wi-Fi access points. LTE category-0 introduced with specification release 12 (and to be expanded in rel-13) is another competitor (other than LoraWan). Here's more information: http://blog.3g4g.co.uk/2015/03/lte-category-0-low-power-m2m-devices.html http://blog.3g4g.co.uk/2015/03/lte-category-0-low-power-m2m-...