5 ms·

Surgery Performed with Google Cardboard Saved a Baby's Life

25 points by shawndumas 11y ago

swagv 11y ago
Redbook
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  What about it?
eridius 11y ago
It's unclear in what way the surgery was actually performed with Google Cardboard. > "He uploaded the images of the baby's heart that he got on the CT scan [to a smartphone], and you put it into this cardboard box, and then in his office, I was looking at the baby's heart in a way that I had never been able to do before," said Nicklaus Children's Hospital Dr. Redmond Burke. "With the box, you get a stereoscopic image, and you can move around in the environment to see every part of the heart." So basically, the surgery itself actually didn't use it at all, the doctor just used it as a stereoscopic viewer for a collection of CT images. But I'm not sure how this is really any different at all from just loading it into a 3D modeler and spinning the camera around. Sure, actual stereoscopic 3D probably makes it easier to get a feel for the dimensions, but there's nothing particularly revolutionary about it that should make an impossible surgery possible.
- Splendor 11y ago
  That's how I read it too. It sounds like Cardboard was used to prepare for the surgery or maybe just to confirm whether or not surgery was a viable option.
- Zikes 11y ago
  If we're going to accept that stereoscopy makes an objectively positive difference over a "flat 3D" presentation, does it not follow that the threshold for success in this case potentially fell within that difference?
  - eridius 11y ago
    I don't think it does. Remember, we're not talking about some kind of remote-operated robotic surgery rig, where the difference might actually affect the movements the surgeon uses during the surgery. This was just for looking at images in preparation for the surgery. Stereoscopic 3D can help get a feel for the depth quickly, but I don't think there's any fundamental difference between using that versus just spending a little more time working with a 3D model (moving a 3D model around gets you a feel for the depth too, just not as fast as stereoscopic imagery does). Besides, we've had 3D monitors for years now. If there was a significant difference here, doctors would all have switched to using 3D monitors years ago to do this kind of preparation. Or at least, we'd have heard stories come out before now about individual doctors that did make the switch because it allows them to confidently perform surgeries they couldn't before.
sushisource 11y ago
First sentence: "Google Cardboard... on your iPhone" Immediately know that this article isn't written by someone with much tech exposure. Yes, it runs on an iPhone. No, it's not the only smartphone in existence, and certainly not Google's primary platform.
- joezydeco 11y ago
  The Cardboard app works just fine on iOS. I played with a ViewMaster headset over the holiday break using my 5S and it was very comfortable. Image quality was great. http://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 http://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pa...
jbandela1 11y ago
The part about Cardboard just sounds like a PR stunt. From experience in surgery, for tricky stuff we would do 3D renders of blood vessels, etc and view them on a computer. One time for a spine case, we actually did a 3D print of the involved vertebrae that we actually physically manipulated as we planned our operation. This was 5-10 years ago. Also given that the cost of an operation such as this in the multiple $100,000 range, the fact that they are resorting to Cardboard which actually is designed to be done cheaply and without too much consideration to fidelity of reproduction is very concerning. TLDR: This is a publicity stunt. Good options for viewing 3D studies have been around for at least a decade. The fact that they relied on a cheap, non-verified system for making life and death decisions is problematic.
- andrewclunn 11y ago
  If that's true, and they intentionally used sub standard technology for advertising purposes... then Google BETTER have paid for the surgery outright, and the parents have been unable to afford it otherwise. If not there are some SERIOUS ethical issues here.
- tomlongson 11y ago
  An "average user" is claiming to have beaten the world record in the racing game "Dirt Rally" by 12 seconds using the Oculus Rift. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3z0n1l/the_oculus_rift_gives_a_huge_advantage_in_car/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3z0n1l/the_oculus_r... This story about Cardboard may be a PR stunt, but it may also be true that VR provided powerful insight that outperforms a flat screen or even a printed model. VR is going to be used a lot more in situations where understanding physical environments is important, be it Nanotech, Healthcare, Architecture... simply because it is so immersive.
  - FF76 11y ago
    It's true that cardboard may have viable reasons for being mentioned in this context, but the onus is on the writer to prove that this isn't a sensational piece. As the article is right now, we can only speculate on good faith that they had good reasoning to use cardboard vs existing methods that others have mentioned.
Cheyana 11y ago
Regardless of how it was used, it'll probably show up on the final bill with an equipment usage fee of $47,000.
ntaylor 11y ago
Extremely misleading article.
tdeschamps 11y ago
It's difficult to take this article seriously. There are lots of tools available and more appropriate to prepare surgeries using CT scans. Check echopixeltech for example.
FF76 11y ago
Articles like these are just terrible. I can see this misleading people who don't read the article to think that you can perform surgery with a cellphone. At best, it's a sensational PR piece.

25 points by shawndumas 11y ago

swagv 11y ago

Redbook

wlesieutre 11y ago
What about it?

eridius 11y ago

It's unclear in what way the surgery was actually performed with Google Cardboard. > "He uploaded the images of the baby's heart that he got on the CT scan [to a smartphone], and you put it into this cardboard box, and then in his office, I was looking at the baby's heart in a way that I had never been able to do before," said Nicklaus Children's Hospital Dr. Redmond Burke. "With the box, you get a stereoscopic image, and you can move around in the environment to see every part of the heart." So basically, the surgery itself actually didn't use it at all, the doctor just used it as a stereoscopic viewer for a collection of CT images. But I'm not sure how this is really any different at all from just loading it into a 3D modeler and spinning the camera around. Sure, actual stereoscopic 3D probably makes it easier to get a feel for the dimensions, but there's nothing particularly revolutionary about it that should make an impossible surgery possible.

Splendor 11y ago
That's how I read it too. It sounds like Cardboard was used to prepare for the surgery or maybe just to confirm whether or not surgery was a viable option.
Zikes 11y ago
If we're going to accept that stereoscopy makes an objectively positive difference over a "flat 3D" presentation, does it not follow that the threshold for success in this case potentially fell within that difference?
- eridius 11y ago
  I don't think it does. Remember, we're not talking about some kind of remote-operated robotic surgery rig, where the difference might actually affect the movements the surgeon uses during the surgery. This was just for looking at images in preparation for the surgery. Stereoscopic 3D can help get a feel for the depth quickly, but I don't think there's any fundamental difference between using that versus just spending a little more time working with a 3D model (moving a 3D model around gets you a feel for the depth too, just not as fast as stereoscopic imagery does). Besides, we've had 3D monitors for years now. If there was a significant difference here, doctors would all have switched to using 3D monitors years ago to do this kind of preparation. Or at least, we'd have heard stories come out before now about individual doctors that did make the switch because it allows them to confidently perform surgeries they couldn't before.

sushisource 11y ago

First sentence: "Google Cardboard... on your iPhone" Immediately know that this article isn't written by someone with much tech exposure. Yes, it runs on an iPhone. No, it's not the only smartphone in existence, and certainly not Google's primary platform.

joezydeco 11y ago
The Cardboard app works just fine on iOS. I played with a ViewMaster headset over the holiday break using my 5S and it was very comfortable. Image quality was great. http://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pack/dp/B011EG5HJ2 http://www.amazon.com/View-Master-Virtual-Reality-Starter-Pa...

jbandela1 11y ago

The part about Cardboard just sounds like a PR stunt. From experience in surgery, for tricky stuff we would do 3D renders of blood vessels, etc and view them on a computer. One time for a spine case, we actually did a 3D print of the involved vertebrae that we actually physically manipulated as we planned our operation. This was 5-10 years ago. Also given that the cost of an operation such as this in the multiple $100,000 range, the fact that they are resorting to Cardboard which actually is designed to be done cheaply and without too much consideration to fidelity of reproduction is very concerning. TLDR: This is a publicity stunt. Good options for viewing 3D studies have been around for at least a decade. The fact that they relied on a cheap, non-verified system for making life and death decisions is problematic.

andrewclunn 11y ago
If that's true, and they intentionally used sub standard technology for advertising purposes... then Google BETTER have paid for the surgery outright, and the parents have been unable to afford it otherwise. If not there are some SERIOUS ethical issues here.
tomlongson 11y ago
An "average user" is claiming to have beaten the world record in the racing game "Dirt Rally" by 12 seconds using the Oculus Rift. https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3z0n1l/the_oculus_rift_gives_a_huge_advantage_in_car/ https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3z0n1l/the_oculus_r... This story about Cardboard may be a PR stunt, but it may also be true that VR provided powerful insight that outperforms a flat screen or even a printed model. VR is going to be used a lot more in situations where understanding physical environments is important, be it Nanotech, Healthcare, Architecture... simply because it is so immersive.
- FF76 11y ago
  It's true that cardboard may have viable reasons for being mentioned in this context, but the onus is on the writer to prove that this isn't a sensational piece. As the article is right now, we can only speculate on good faith that they had good reasoning to use cardboard vs existing methods that others have mentioned.

Cheyana 11y ago

Regardless of how it was used, it'll probably show up on the final bill with an equipment usage fee of $47,000.

ntaylor 11y ago

Extremely misleading article.

tdeschamps 11y ago

It's difficult to take this article seriously. There are lots of tools available and more appropriate to prepare surgeries using CT scans. Check echopixeltech for example.

FF76 11y ago

Articles like these are just terrible. I can see this misleading people who don't read the article to think that you can perform surgery with a cellphone. At best, it's a sensational PR piece.