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I guess I'm going to be different and actually suggest that I think Binge On is fine. Almost all video streaming services will downgrade the stream quality if

I guess I'm going to be different and actually suggest that I think Binge On is fine. Almost all video streaming services will downgrade the stream quality if they get a 1.5Mbps pipe, and any that don't are at a competitive disadvantage to anyone who is streaming from a phone and who actually only has a 1.5Mbps pipe. It's built into most of the streaming protocols to downgrade on a slower connection. Source: I worked with video streaming on the client side when I was at Amazon, and additionally researched other options to the one we settled on. So T-Mobile is asking users to choose between a (potentially) lower quality video stream in exchange for getting tons of video streaming options for free. This reduces load on their network, because people were obviously streaming anyway, and has convinced the biggest providers like Netflix to voluntarily reduce their bandwidth consumption to 480p in order to get free streaming to T-Mobile customers. At best I would say that better user education could be called for, or potentially forcing the users to make an opt-in/out decision, but honestly I think the users would hate the interruption. This is clearly a situation like the European cookie permission law: If you force them to ask the users whether it's OK, sure they will ask, and that will interfere with the UX and piss off users. I'm fine with it being opt-out; let T-Mobile email or send a notification to everyone about how to opt out if they want, along with an explanation of the consequences, and let them decide whether to click the "opt out" button. Not "because T-Mobile," like another comment implied, but because it's a fine trade-off, and anyone who cares can just disable it. More than 480p on a tiny screen is nice sometimes, but I'll take free 480p over the cell network and watch my 1080p video when I'm at home on wifi. I also love to be able to stream music for free on T-Mobile. That's a feature I use all the time. Even my more "fringe" music streaming services are supported. This doesn't seem to me to be anti-competitive, and T-Mobile isn't charging anything to stream the music, so I think it's pure awesome.

bradleyankrom 11y ago
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would like to be asked when changes like this occur. I don't consider it an inconvenience, but then again I care about things like net neutrality and my privacy.
- arjie 11y ago
  I, on the other hand, couldn't give a damn. Nothing is more annoying than some notice telling me they're downgrading my video. Couldn't care less to know.
  - netneutralish 11y ago
    To add to your point, you couldn't care less to know that your video was downgraded because you are still happy with the downgraded 480p quality.
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  Well, I heard about it from T-Mobile directly and from several other sources as it was splashed over the mainstream news, on here, on Reddit, and in other media. They aren't keeping it a secret. And in every article they mention that you can disable it; so if you care, you can. I strongly care about net neutrality, too. And I wouldn't personally care if they texted me with a "reply with 'disable' to disable Binge On" text message, but too many people with no clue of the ramifications might disable it. You'd really need to force people to learn something that 98% of T-Mobile customers don't care about -- and I would find it annoying to be forced to learn something that I personally find obvious.
  - bradleyankrom 11y ago
    I honestly didn't even really know what it was until I dug into the EFF article, and I'm a TMO customer (I've unsubscribed from nearly every non-account info email they send, so maybe I missed it?). Again, probably in the minority, but I do care -- especially since the "benefits" of Binge On don't apply to my unlimited account.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > I strongly care about net neutrality, too. And I wouldn't personally care if they texted me with a "reply with 'disable' to disable Binge On" text message, but too many people with no clue of the ramifications might disable it. T-Mobile customer here! My plan supports BingeOn, and I received a text message from them with a link to a webpage with full details, including information on how to opt out. I think they've handled this perfectly. No association other than a satisfied customer for 14 years.
kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
> It's built into most of the streaming protocols to downgrade on a slower connection. You could tell that to PBS. Their mandatory ads are HD only and can't stream smoothly on low bandwidth links. Of course now that they've implemented a paywall for video it won't be an issue anymore as I spend my time elsewhere.
- SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
  Well, PBS is using a screwed up or misconfigured streaming server, then. As I said above, they are therefore at a competitive disadvantage.
OrwellianChild 11y ago
Thanks for providing this perspective... It sounds like most people who are complaining about the Binge On service either: 1) Pay for Unlimited data and thus don't need to manage their data usage to avoid overage. 2) Don't use video services enough on their phones to hit their data cap, and thus don't need to manage their data usage to avoid overage. For a fully voluntary service that was loudly promoted and can be turned off, it sounds like this implementation is a worthy trade-off for people who would rather not pay for extra data. It was unilaterally turned on because most people will likely not notice the difference and will simply reap the benefit of less data used (while letting TMO optimize their network usage). Those who do can investigate and deactivate it at will. This sounds remarkably close to win-win-win to me...
toomuchtodo 11y ago
> At best I would say that better user education could be called for, or potentially forcing the users to make an opt-in/out decision, but honestly I think the users would hate the interruption. This is clearly a situation like the European cookie permission law: If you force them to ask the users whether it's OK, sure they will ask, and that will interfere with the UX and piss off users. T-Mobile provides a text message with details about BingeOn, and allows you a setting to opt out if you'd prefer higher quality streams (with using your data quota as a consequence). https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24294#tutorial1 https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24294#tutorial1
- ploxiln 11y ago
  I got the text message (and of course I'd read about it in tech news for weeks before), but I've never seen the option where it's supposed to be. It's just not there under "Other Services" for me. Wasn't there at launch, wasn't there a month later, and still isn't there today. I'm not going to call someone over this though - I don't watch video on my phone! I just want to turn it off on principle. Well, what can you do - all the other carriers are easily more evil than T-Mobile.
jsight 11y ago
> Almost all video streaming services will downgrade the stream quality if they get a 1.5Mbps pipe, and any that don't are at a competitive disadvantage to anyone who is streaming from a phone and who actually only has a 1.5Mbps pipe. Yep, and this actually has some really annoying side effects for people with a lot of bandwidth but a low data cap. A lot of services have ways to manually control it, but some are surprisingly obtuse about it (Netflix).
- netneutralish 11y ago
  Netflix uses adaptive streaming to stream their videos. It is inherently a greedy algorithm; if the stream determines there is bandwidth available, without a throttle Netflix will try to go to 1080p (or whatever the highest bitrate available for that stream). Consumers with LTE phones + data caps benefit the most from BingeOn. Possibly, they are a significant % of T-Mo consumers and are happy with the trade-off.

bradleyankrom 11y ago

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would like to be asked when changes like this occur. I don't consider it an inconvenience, but then again I care about things like net neutrality and my privacy.

arjie 11y ago
I, on the other hand, couldn't give a damn. Nothing is more annoying than some notice telling me they're downgrading my video. Couldn't care less to know.
- netneutralish 11y ago
  To add to your point, you couldn't care less to know that your video was downgraded because you are still happy with the downgraded 480p quality.
SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
Well, I heard about it from T-Mobile directly and from several other sources as it was splashed over the mainstream news, on here, on Reddit, and in other media. They aren't keeping it a secret. And in every article they mention that you can disable it; so if you care, you can. I strongly care about net neutrality, too. And I wouldn't personally care if they texted me with a "reply with 'disable' to disable Binge On" text message, but too many people with no clue of the ramifications might disable it. You'd really need to force people to learn something that 98% of T-Mobile customers don't care about -- and I would find it annoying to be forced to learn something that I personally find obvious.
- bradleyankrom 11y ago
  I honestly didn't even really know what it was until I dug into the EFF article, and I'm a TMO customer (I've unsubscribed from nearly every non-account info email they send, so maybe I missed it?). Again, probably in the minority, but I do care -- especially since the "benefits" of Binge On don't apply to my unlimited account.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  > I strongly care about net neutrality, too. And I wouldn't personally care if they texted me with a "reply with 'disable' to disable Binge On" text message, but too many people with no clue of the ramifications might disable it. T-Mobile customer here! My plan supports BingeOn, and I received a text message from them with a link to a webpage with full details, including information on how to opt out. I think they've handled this perfectly. No association other than a satisfied customer for 14 years.

kevin_thibedeau 11y ago

> It's built into most of the streaming protocols to downgrade on a slower connection. You could tell that to PBS. Their mandatory ads are HD only and can't stream smoothly on low bandwidth links. Of course now that they've implemented a paywall for video it won't be an issue anymore as I spend my time elsewhere.

SomeCallMeTim 11y ago
Well, PBS is using a screwed up or misconfigured streaming server, then. As I said above, they are therefore at a competitive disadvantage.

OrwellianChild 11y ago

Thanks for providing this perspective... It sounds like most people who are complaining about the Binge On service either: 1) Pay for Unlimited data and thus don't need to manage their data usage to avoid overage. 2) Don't use video services enough on their phones to hit their data cap, and thus don't need to manage their data usage to avoid overage. For a fully voluntary service that was loudly promoted and can be turned off, it sounds like this implementation is a worthy trade-off for people who would rather not pay for extra data. It was unilaterally turned on because most people will likely not notice the difference and will simply reap the benefit of less data used (while letting TMO optimize their network usage). Those who do can investigate and deactivate it at will. This sounds remarkably close to win-win-win to me...

toomuchtodo 11y ago

> At best I would say that better user education could be called for, or potentially forcing the users to make an opt-in/out decision, but honestly I think the users would hate the interruption. This is clearly a situation like the European cookie permission law: If you force them to ask the users whether it's OK, sure they will ask, and that will interfere with the UX and piss off users. T-Mobile provides a text message with details about BingeOn, and allows you a setting to opt out if you'd prefer higher quality streams (with using your data quota as a consequence). https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24294#tutorial1 https://support.t-mobile.com/docs/DOC-24294#tutorial1

ploxiln 11y ago
I got the text message (and of course I'd read about it in tech news for weeks before), but I've never seen the option where it's supposed to be. It's just not there under "Other Services" for me. Wasn't there at launch, wasn't there a month later, and still isn't there today. I'm not going to call someone over this though - I don't watch video on my phone! I just want to turn it off on principle. Well, what can you do - all the other carriers are easily more evil than T-Mobile.

jsight 11y ago

> Almost all video streaming services will downgrade the stream quality if they get a 1.5Mbps pipe, and any that don't are at a competitive disadvantage to anyone who is streaming from a phone and who actually only has a 1.5Mbps pipe. Yep, and this actually has some really annoying side effects for people with a lot of bandwidth but a low data cap. A lot of services have ways to manually control it, but some are surprisingly obtuse about it (Netflix).

netneutralish 11y ago
Netflix uses adaptive streaming to stream their videos. It is inherently a greedy algorithm; if the stream determines there is bandwidth available, without a throttle Netflix will try to go to 1080p (or whatever the highest bitrate available for that stream). Consumers with LTE phones + data caps benefit the most from BingeOn. Possibly, they are a significant % of T-Mo consumers and are happy with the trade-off.