21 ms·

GitHub's reign over public open source programming is a bit terrifying. But, it's been mostly benevolent so far, but I do find it troubling to trust a private c

GitHub's reign over public open source programming is a bit terrifying. But, it's been mostly benevolent so far, but I do find it troubling to trust a private company to keep dev's in mind, and not profit.

hollerith 11y ago
The good news is that it is straightforward to make a copy of much of the important public data on GH.
- rvense 11y ago
  Even the issue tracking?
  - hk__2 11y ago
    The API lets you access all that.
  - akerl_ 11y ago
    Their API exposes issue data, and there are a handful of 3rd party API-based tools designed to back up / extract it. Also, for anybody not already aware (I didn't know this for a long time): GitHub repo wikis are themselves git repos that use Gollum
    - josegonzalez 11y ago
      I've already written a standalone tool to do exactly this: https://github.com/josegonzalez/python-github-backup https://github.com/josegonzalez/python-github-backup
  - saurik 11y ago
    Someone will probably point out that data can be exported, but that is frankly irrelevant given that the URLs for your project are now embedded around the entire world to a domain name you don't control (github.com), and which your goal should be to "outlive". There is tons of historical content sitting on SourceForge and Google Code that has links all over the Internet pointed at, and it is a major issue that you can't migrate and take these links with you; if github.com offered "bring your own domain" as a feature for some moderate cost, it would be much more viable as a platform for people who care about the longevity of their projects.
    - tracker1 11y ago
      You can use your own domain for GH pages... which many sites do use for their documentation.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  It goes a lot further than that. Github quite literally becomes the hub of the projects it hosts. Without the hub the spokes will have to reconnect and many of the glue bits will be lost in the process and some of those bits are very important. A public home is a very important thing to an open source project.
tw04 11y ago
I'm not sure why it's a problem though. If they decide to go down that path, it's not that hard to move off. They don't have the lock-in that would scare me like having terabytes of data in an oracle database.
- cm3 11y ago
  The problem is with people's mindset that everything has to be on github. Large projects that dare to use self-hosted more fitting infrastructure like Phabricator tend to be punished socially.
  - akerl_ 11y ago
    I suspect what you're seeing as social punishment is people preferring the UX GitHub offers. That's just user choice in action
    - yeukhon 11y ago
      Not really, the inconvenience of having to register another account (which often means another set of password) is quite a big deal for entry.
      - cm3 11y ago
        Usually you can log in with your github account.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
        This. Github's UX is nice, but so is BitBucket's and other competitors'.
      - akerl_ 11y ago
        I'd consider "single sign on that connects me to tons of projects' repos to be great UX. Personally, it (and the centralized API) are big reasons I use GitHub to interact with projects whenever possible
jmount 11y ago
I agree. I like GitHub (and I pay for their service). But man if they wake up one day and decide to go the SourceForge route (or demand ransom to not do so) it is going to be a pain to redirect stuff.
lfam 11y ago
It's absurd that so many open-source and / or free software projects are happy to host their public-facing development infrastructure with a private company running proprietary software.
- AndyKelley 11y ago
  Why?
  - chei0aiV 11y ago
    http://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html http://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
- manigandham 11y ago
  What's the alternative? Everyone running their own little proprietary stacks with none of the features or community or ease of use?
  - lfam 11y ago
    Why would a free software project leave GitHub just to run a proprietary "stack"? You could try one of the self-hostable free software alternatives listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_code_hosting_facilities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_code_host...
    - manigandham 11y ago
      self-hostable and free doesn't mean they're not proprietary. and my comment was more about the fact that github is just git (which is completely open) with some extra features. like the other comments have said, it's not really a big risk.
      - lfam 11y ago
        I don't mean free as in price. I mean free as in freedom, and I mean proprietary as in non-free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software
golergka 11y ago
Thankfully, setting up a git mirror on alternative hosting platform and update it automatically is almost trivial. Of course, you have issues and discussions that are tried to Github's platform, but we don't have any universally accepted format for it except email anyway.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
xiaoma 11y ago
especially given some of their behavior in the last couple of years...
- GhotiFish 11y ago
  well I don't know if I agree with that. I haven't seen an instance where their behavior has been amoral. I have seen instances where they have been cowards, regarding DMCA's and acquiescing to threats, but that is a minor sin. I don't expect every organization to fight every fight worth fighting.

hollerith 11y ago

The good news is that it is straightforward to make a copy of much of the important public data on GH.

rvense 11y ago
Even the issue tracking?
- hk__2 11y ago
  The API lets you access all that.
- akerl_ 11y ago
  Their API exposes issue data, and there are a handful of 3rd party API-based tools designed to back up / extract it. Also, for anybody not already aware (I didn't know this for a long time): GitHub repo wikis are themselves git repos that use Gollum
  - josegonzalez 11y ago
    I've already written a standalone tool to do exactly this: https://github.com/josegonzalez/python-github-backup https://github.com/josegonzalez/python-github-backup
- saurik 11y ago
  Someone will probably point out that data can be exported, but that is frankly irrelevant given that the URLs for your project are now embedded around the entire world to a domain name you don't control (github.com), and which your goal should be to "outlive". There is tons of historical content sitting on SourceForge and Google Code that has links all over the Internet pointed at, and it is a major issue that you can't migrate and take these links with you; if github.com offered "bring your own domain" as a feature for some moderate cost, it would be much more viable as a platform for people who care about the longevity of their projects.
  - tracker1 11y ago
    You can use your own domain for GH pages... which many sites do use for their documentation.
jacquesm 11y ago
It goes a lot further than that. Github quite literally becomes the hub of the projects it hosts. Without the hub the spokes will have to reconnect and many of the glue bits will be lost in the process and some of those bits are very important. A public home is a very important thing to an open source project.

tw04 11y ago

I'm not sure why it's a problem though. If they decide to go down that path, it's not that hard to move off. They don't have the lock-in that would scare me like having terabytes of data in an oracle database.

cm3 11y ago
The problem is with people's mindset that everything has to be on github. Large projects that dare to use self-hosted more fitting infrastructure like Phabricator tend to be punished socially.
- akerl_ 11y ago
  I suspect what you're seeing as social punishment is people preferring the UX GitHub offers. That's just user choice in action
  - yeukhon 11y ago
    Not really, the inconvenience of having to register another account (which often means another set of password) is quite a big deal for entry.
    - cm3 11y ago
      Usually you can log in with your github account.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
    - fucking_tragedy 11y ago
      This. Github's UX is nice, but so is BitBucket's and other competitors'.
    - akerl_ 11y ago
      I'd consider "single sign on that connects me to tons of projects' repos to be great UX. Personally, it (and the centralized API) are big reasons I use GitHub to interact with projects whenever possible

jmount 11y ago

I agree. I like GitHub (and I pay for their service). But man if they wake up one day and decide to go the SourceForge route (or demand ransom to not do so) it is going to be a pain to redirect stuff.

lfam 11y ago

It's absurd that so many open-source and / or free software projects are happy to host their public-facing development infrastructure with a private company running proprietary software.

AndyKelley 11y ago
Why?
- chei0aiV 11y ago
  http://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html http://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
manigandham 11y ago
What's the alternative? Everyone running their own little proprietary stacks with none of the features or community or ease of use?
- lfam 11y ago
  Why would a free software project leave GitHub just to run a proprietary "stack"? You could try one of the self-hostable free software alternatives listed here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_code_hosting_facilities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_source_code_host...
  - manigandham 11y ago
    self-hostable and free doesn't mean they're not proprietary. and my comment was more about the fact that github is just git (which is completely open) with some extra features. like the other comments have said, it's not really a big risk.
    - lfam 11y ago
      I don't mean free as in price. I mean free as in freedom, and I mean proprietary as in non-free: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprietary_software

golergka 11y ago

Thankfully, setting up a git mirror on alternative hosting platform and update it automatically is almost trivial. Of course, you have issues and discussions that are tried to Github's platform, but we don't have any universally accepted format for it except email anyway.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

xiaoma 11y ago

especially given some of their behavior in the last couple of years...

GhotiFish 11y ago
well I don't know if I agree with that. I haven't seen an instance where their behavior has been amoral. I have seen instances where they have been cowards, regarding DMCA's and acquiescing to threats, but that is a minor sin. I don't expect every organization to fight every fight worth fighting.