7 ms·

These all seem like very sensible wins -- especially #6. I think #5 is the most interesting, but my immediate first question, as a total layman for space trave

by goykasi 11y ago

These all seem like very sensible wins -- especially #6. I think #5 is the most interesting, but my immediate first question, as a total layman for space travel/survival, is how do we keep breathing up there? It seems like solving the O2 to Moon transport is a reasonable problem to tackle -- assuming we get people and gear up there -- albeit a lot of effort. How about the next outpost? And then the next? Do we continue bunny hopping O2 transports from Moon to Mars to Earth2... etc until there is a continuous supply of breathable air out from Earth? Or do we have a way to generate as we go further? Are we at mercy of Earth's O2 supply? That seems like the biggest problem for leaving this planet.

jamesfisher 11y ago
Oxygen doesn't get used up. It comes back out as carbon dioxide. We would just need a way to extract the oxygen from the carbon dioxide again. One solution is photosynthesis, i.e. some plants.
- goykasi 11y ago
  > Oxygen doesn't get used up... We would just need a way to extract the oxygen... Is that literally all there is to it -- minus reasonable loss? Does something like that already exist? > i.e. some plants Perfect! Do you think that plants can make up the loss from systems that we could set up for converting CO2 back to O2? When can fly some cows and chickens up there? Throwing plants and livestock on the Moon seems too good to be true. Also, completely off topic, does anybody know the current value per acre of Moon?
  - Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
    There isn't really O2 loss from the natural process of breathing. Leaks in the pressurized environment would probably be a much bigger source of atmosphere loss.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    Not sure you're getting what parent said. Oxygen is an element. It doesn't get "used up" in the sense that you have less. It simply gets bound in different forms (like more complex molecules). It just takes energy to release it so we can breathe it again. No loss (unless you run it through a fusion reactor). Photosynthesis is one such process.
  - Vendan 11y ago
    One useful thing, not currently used due to space, weight, and power issues, most of which would be minimal issues on the moon, is the Bosch reaction. Basically, CO2 + H2 => C + H2O. Split the H2O(water), and you get back the H2 to reuse in the Bosch reaction, and breathable O2.
Vendan 11y ago
Well, the question there is where does the Earth's O2 supply come from. The answer is what we should set up on the moon, a viable ecosystem. This means things like hydroponics, probably at least some algae based systems, that kind of thing. That way we can regenerate the CO2 back into O2, and get some food production along the way!
VLM 11y ago
The moon is cheat-y easy http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lnews/lnmar97/oxygen.htm http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lnews/lnmar97/oxygen.htm The TLDR is most lunar soil plus hydrogen and solar red heat gives a couple percent by mass oxygen in a couple hours. So solar concentrators "boiling" vats of lunar dirt in the 14 day day, then tanks and nuclear powered LED illuminated plants during the 14 day night. People don't use much oxygen by mass (although the volume is impressive) so a natural safety strategy is to melt chambers in the base so immense that you can survive a lunar night without any working O2 source. You'll want warehouse space to store "stuff" anyway. On mars, a worst case scenario means you're a couple years away from the earth's surface (not just O2 or general environmental, but food and disease and sickness) whereas the moon is never more than a couple days from anywhere on earth. That's very convenient. I wonder how many years / decades moonies will "need" 100% lifeboat coverage like that. Eventually it'll make more sense to get self help from a neighboring colony than to abandon ship and fly back to earth.
Qwertious 11y ago
#5 is fairly useless AFAIK, because the exact same problem applies to the bottom of the (deep)ocean, and IIRC the ocean is cheaper to get to. Although the pressure problem is inverted, IIRC - space has zero pressure outside, whereas the ocean bottom has crush-depth pressure outside.
marcosdumay 11y ago
You get O2 from water, with some extra H2 to use in chemistry. There's water (almost) everywhere.

by goykasi 11y ago

jamesfisher 11y ago

Oxygen doesn't get used up. It comes back out as carbon dioxide. We would just need a way to extract the oxygen from the carbon dioxide again. One solution is photosynthesis, i.e. some plants.

goykasi 11y ago
> Oxygen doesn't get used up... We would just need a way to extract the oxygen... Is that literally all there is to it -- minus reasonable loss? Does something like that already exist? > i.e. some plants Perfect! Do you think that plants can make up the loss from systems that we could set up for converting CO2 back to O2? When can fly some cows and chickens up there? Throwing plants and livestock on the Moon seems too good to be true. Also, completely off topic, does anybody know the current value per acre of Moon?
- Sir_Cmpwn 11y ago
  There isn't really O2 loss from the natural process of breathing. Leaks in the pressurized environment would probably be a much bigger source of atmosphere loss.
- ethbro 11y ago
  Not sure you're getting what parent said. Oxygen is an element. It doesn't get "used up" in the sense that you have less. It simply gets bound in different forms (like more complex molecules). It just takes energy to release it so we can breathe it again. No loss (unless you run it through a fusion reactor). Photosynthesis is one such process.
- Vendan 11y ago
  One useful thing, not currently used due to space, weight, and power issues, most of which would be minimal issues on the moon, is the Bosch reaction. Basically, CO2 + H2 => C + H2O. Split the H2O(water), and you get back the H2 to reuse in the Bosch reaction, and breathable O2.

Vendan 11y ago

Well, the question there is where does the Earth's O2 supply come from. The answer is what we should set up on the moon, a viable ecosystem. This means things like hydroponics, probably at least some algae based systems, that kind of thing. That way we can regenerate the CO2 back into O2, and get some food production along the way!

VLM 11y ago

The moon is cheat-y easy http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lnews/lnmar97/oxygen.htm http://curator.jsc.nasa.gov/lunar/lnews/lnmar97/oxygen.htm The TLDR is most lunar soil plus hydrogen and solar red heat gives a couple percent by mass oxygen in a couple hours. So solar concentrators "boiling" vats of lunar dirt in the 14 day day, then tanks and nuclear powered LED illuminated plants during the 14 day night. People don't use much oxygen by mass (although the volume is impressive) so a natural safety strategy is to melt chambers in the base so immense that you can survive a lunar night without any working O2 source. You'll want warehouse space to store "stuff" anyway. On mars, a worst case scenario means you're a couple years away from the earth's surface (not just O2 or general environmental, but food and disease and sickness) whereas the moon is never more than a couple days from anywhere on earth. That's very convenient. I wonder how many years / decades moonies will "need" 100% lifeboat coverage like that. Eventually it'll make more sense to get self help from a neighboring colony than to abandon ship and fly back to earth.

Qwertious 11y ago

#5 is fairly useless AFAIK, because the exact same problem applies to the bottom of the (deep)ocean, and IIRC the ocean is cheaper to get to. Although the pressure problem is inverted, IIRC - space has zero pressure outside, whereas the ocean bottom has crush-depth pressure outside.

marcosdumay 11y ago

You get O2 from water, with some extra H2 to use in chemistry. There's water (almost) everywhere.