9 ms·

Why Copenhagen Has Almost Perfect Water

129 points by xenophon 11y ago

throwaway13337 11y ago
Copenhagen tap water is chalky - your glasses get cloudy when washed with it. It's also not very good tasting to a lot of people including me. To me, there is great water throughout scandinavia with the exception of denmark because of the chalky soil.
- Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
  I would probably consider that water bad. Because in the water in Chicago, New York and Washington is Ok. But in Miami it was just wasn't that great anymore. Having chalk in the water is a sure way to run it's taste. Actually I'm quite curious how it's possible that Singapore had good water. From geography alone I would assume it's water would be bad.
  - s_q_b 11y ago
    Washington state, or Washington D.C.? Because D.C.'s water is actually so bad it can be dangerous. You can't even believe the water quality reports because the Federal agencies distort them wildly. There was a massive scandal that resulted in both the CDC and EPA being caught falsifying evidence. See the WASA lead contamination scandal from 2001-2010, in which the EPA falsely claimed that the water was safe, even as their treatment chemicals were dissolving lead in pipes and joints. The CDC was charged with determining the extent of the problem, and claimed that the high levels of lead were not a public health risk, a claim that later investigators from independent institutions stated were "scientifically indefensible." Lead levels in the last decade were found to be as high as 83 times the acceptable standard for drinking water. The water comes from the Potomac, is heavily treated with chloramine (which unlike chlorine dissolves lead), then runs through mains which were laid generally between the Civil War and WWI, and finally into old 5-6 story buildings (which due to height restrictions are often remodeled but seldom rebuilt), almost all of which have lead in the plumbing. The water is so bad that even the heavily filtered water at my home has a terrible taste. The government claims that the problem is "almost certainly resolved" after the addition of further treatment chemicals, not including the removal of chloramine, which frankly makes their claims implausible. The Washington Post estimates that ~15,000 households in the city are still receiving extremely high dosages of lead. Oh, and the Potomac is essentially sludge downstream from the city. The beautiful waterfront in Georgetown is actually the site of a CSO (Combined Sewer Overflow), so that every time it rains, the city's untreated sewage is dumped at the very location where the river is most used.
    - eli 11y ago
      To be fair, the people wgo still have high lead in their water is because they have lead pipes on their property.
      - s_q_b 11y ago
        The lead is in the mains, and with most of the apartments in any decent neighborhood approaching 1 million for a two bedroom, it's not like you can purchase a building and replace the plumbing. The problem is a government that injected a cheaper treatment chemical into the water supply that dissolves that lead, and then lies about it to the public.
        eli 11y ago
        Do you have a link with more details? I was under impression vulnerable lead mains were replaced
        s_q_b 11y ago
        Dashing this off from the Christmas table, so as expected most immediate Google results are the government pages. Here's the replacement description. You'll notice that they're still actively replacing mains (at an extraordinarily slow rate, essentially whenever a line needs service.) If memory serves, the main line for half the city was laid during the Lincoln administration. I believe the average annual replacement rate is around 1%. Replacement information: https://www.dcwater.com/lead/scheduled_replacements.cfm https://www.dcwater.com/lead/scheduled_replacements.cfm
  - oska 11y ago
    > Actually I'm quite curious how it's possible that Singapore had good water. From geography alone I would assume it's water would be bad. It's an interesting subject to read about. Here are some links: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... * http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/environment/singapores-water-supply-where-does-it-come-from http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/environment/singapores... * http://www.dw.com/en/singapores-toilet-to-tap-concept/a-16904636 http://www.dw.com/en/singapores-toilet-to-tap-concept/a-1690...
  - MrQuincle 11y ago
    Just came back from Singapore. The water is nice indeed. Hasn't a chalky taste. I found the water in New York (Manhattan) too chalky as well. This is the water purification setup near my home, Rotterdam, the Netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGw8FH3I58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGw8FH3I58. I guess it's a setup like everywhere else. Of course the Dutch have a name in the water industry, so there might be more reason to do it right than in other countries. Still, there are plenty of things to improve. - The systems for sewerage and surface water / rain are not separated everywhere for example. - The "Hoogheemraadschap" responsible for keeping surface water clean is the oldest political system in Holland. At first sight a nice idea, but do we really have to democratically elect these people? What about firefighters, police officers, army generals? - A friend of mine organizes a yearly swimming event in the Maas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse). It's still not as clean as it could be though. The industry, for example Sitech, dumps chemicals in the water and institutions like the one above don't fine fast and high enough. If you're Dutch you can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99WW9ALModY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99WW9ALModY
- mcv 11y ago
  In my experience, Amsterdam has the best tap water. I haven't found a mineral water that tastes that good.
  - bjelkeman-again 11y ago
    I think it must be what one is used to. I am in Stockholm but visit Amsterdam often. I prefer Stockholm water.
- Tharkun 11y ago
  It's an acquired taste. I grew up in an area with very hard water. Whenever I drink tapwater that isn't hard as rocks, I get disappointed. It's just so...bland.
danielovich 11y ago
If you're used to bottled water, tap water is different in taste, of course. But we don't drink bottled water in Scandinavia because our tap water is of great quality, unlike a lot of other places. The tap water in Copenhagen varies a lot. Depending on the plant your hooked up too. It can be very chalky and it can be very smooth. Strangly enough this is not throughout the rest of the country. Copenhagen water is probably the worst compared to the rest of the country. Jumping in the harbor is okay, but it's far from being as clear as going to the beach.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
plorkyeran 11y ago
Copenhagen's tap water is undrinkably foul. Perhaps it is safe to drink, but I still had to buy bottled water simply due to the taste, and I find the idea of praising the strong flavor baffling.
- danc86 11y ago
  "Undrinkably foul" seems a bit melodramatic. It certainly has that distinctive minerally taste common to groundwater, which is quite noticeable to someone like me (and maybe you?) who lives in a city with chemically treated surface water. But in Europe using untreated or minimally treated groundwater seems to be a common approach and Copenhagen's was amongst the most neutral tasting to me. Iceland for example has much stronger tasting tap water.
  - christoph 11y ago
    I would totally agree about the melodramatic. Try some water in parts of southern England. Would you like some water with your chlorine sir?
    - jwdunne 11y ago
      Yeah, the waters meant to be a lot harder down south. In the north west, you can taste the difference between filtered water and tap water but I happily drink tap water all day long.
  - dzhiurgis 11y ago
    This exactly. Just came back from Japan && New Zealand to Lithuania. I always thought we had great water, but now it tasted slightly foul (although very soft). I doubt that it gotten worse as we do a lot improve it. Also, will never forget water in Switzerland (namely - Chur). Perfect, crisp, cold mountain water. Yumm. The worst water was in American Samoa, smelled like feces.
  - _delirium 11y ago
    I don't think it has much to do with chemical treatment or not. A lot of U.S. cities also have hard water; that depends mostly on the source, with groundwater sources having more minerals than reservoir or lake sources. The main differences in U.S. treatment are that it fluoridates and chlorinates the water, it doesn't normally do demineralization. Also the fluoridation isn't even really a difference in this case: Copenhagen's water supply naturally has high levels of fluoride, similar to the levels that the U.S. adds. But I agree Copenhagen's water is fine for drinking. I even like the taste. What it's a problem for is fixtures and appliances, which chalk up extremely fast, even compared to other areas I've lived with hard water. Showers, faucets, etc. all needs to be "de-kalked" at least every week, ideally every few days. Even simply leaving a glass of water out on the counter for one day will start to produce chalk lines that take effort to remove. Keeping an espresso machine operational is also a challenge, requiring pretty religious usage of the cleaning cycle with a de-chalking tablet.
grandalf 11y ago
Rivers used to be considered a form of free garbage/pollution disposal. Even in relatively modern cities like New York, the rivers are still fairly disgusting. I'd be quite surprised if existing environmental regulations are being enforced there now.
abhinai 11y ago
This link forces you to see an ad for 15 secs before revealing its content. Shouldn't such links be penalized?
- mirimir 11y ago
  No ad for me ;)
mirimir 11y ago
In the '80s and '90s, water in New York City was excellent. It wasn't even chlorinated! But then the city lost the fight against development in upstate watersheds :( So it goes.
- awl130 11y ago
  new york tap is still amazing, compared to la
aftbit 11y ago
> Danes pay the highest water rates in Europe, at 6.33 Euros per 1,000 liters or 264 gallons (compare France at 3.35 Euros and Sweden at 2.73). According to SFPUC[1] & WolframAlpha[2], the rate in a San Francisco multi-family is around €1.80/kL for the first ~8.5kL/month. This is exclusive of the meter flat rate and any other taxes and fees. Charging 3.5x as much for water makes a lot of things possible. 1: http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=169 http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=169 2: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5.58%24%2F748+gal+to+eur%2Fkiloliter http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5.58%24%2F748+gal+to+eu...
- api_or_ipa 11y ago
  In most parts of Vancouver, water is still free. We just installed water metres in some parts of the city a few years ago. We're incredibly fortunate to have a massive mountain range and water shed immediately north of the city that provides us with some of the best water I've ever drank.
  - jpollock 11y ago
    That just means it is paid for from general property taxes, not that it is free. In other words it is a subsidy from apartment dwellers with no grass to single family home owners.
- Dylan16807 11y ago
  Note in particular that you can desalinate water forever at 1.5 euros per kiloliter.
  - jsprogrammer 11y ago
    I doubt that a desalination plant can run on plastic currency, or that such plastic could run a plant 'forever'.
    - Dylan16807 11y ago
      I assure you, if you keep throwing in coins in proportion to the water you take, the well will never run dry (modulo some scaling delays). Am I missing a joke?
graeme 11y ago
Are the underground aquifers in question renewable? Also, how is it that the aquifers don't require purification? Sounds like a good system. Just wondering how long if it can last long term, and if other places can adopt it.
- ArleneBarlow 11y ago
  probably because the aquifer is naturally filtered through rock and is not exposed to surface contaminants
  - tonfa 11y ago
    Yes, the ground acts as the filter. There's a similar setup in Zurich, ground water is directly drinkable (iirc they oxygenate it a bit for test), while the lake water goes through sand filters (it is generally drinkable, but much better to remove particles). Something weird I learned while visiting is that they put extra chalk on purpose to prevent pipes from deteriorating in old buildings (they experimented with lower amounts and had some troubles with leakage).
- DrScump 11y ago
  They are, but they aren't like canteens -- you can't just empty one indefinitely and refill it arbitrarily later. Aquifers can collapse into voids that should have water, and being full of fresh water helps prevent intrusion by saltwater near the coasts (this is happening in the Central Coast even now), or by fracking waste in fracked areas.
- tonfa 11y ago
  Where I live (CH) they reinject water into the ground as they pump it, to preserve the aquifer levels. iirc they have some kind of pressure monitoring. The water there is already purified and clean (slowly went through rocks). It's actually super impressive to see the well, it is so clear that the water level is not visible, looks like it is totally empty.
- DrScump 11y ago
  More on California's collapsing aquifers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799116
jkot 11y ago
I hate to spoil perfect record, but in 2011 there was E.coli alert in Copenhagen: http://phys.org/news/2011-08-copenhagen-ecoli.html http://phys.org/news/2011-08-copenhagen-ecoli.html Also EU has relaxed limits for nitrates, to the point it could hurt infants and some aquarium fish. When some post-soviet countries were joining EU, our nitrate limits were considered too strict, and we had to lower them.
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  I know in post soviet countries, due to nitrates, there were few programmes to close traditional wells used in very small towns and drill deep wells instead.
  - spdionis 11y ago
    Provably depends on the region but there's no water as good as water from traditional wells in rural areas here.
dbcooper 11y ago
When I lived in Lyngby, the water was hard and poor for washing shirts. Hardly perfect.
lbenes 11y ago
The warn the residents after a bird dies, while on the other side of the pond, we're dumping the entire 37 million gallons of their reservoir into the sewer after a boy pees in it.[1] Why can't we have a sane government that acts with logic and science? You know like one that immediately closed factories that were linked to salmonella outbreaks. Instead of punting for TEN YEARS while thousands of Americans get sick.[2] [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27069611 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27069611 [2] http://www.oregonlive.com/usda-salmonella/ http://www.oregonlive.com/usda-salmonella/
googleir 11y ago
As a Californian who spent a few months there: It is cold as hell, and I don't have any clue why locals don't sense how cold the weather is.
DrScump 11y ago
"Public drinking water is now so clean that it’s better than bottled water, says Mayor of Technical and Environmental Affairs Morten Kabell—and that’s without chlorine or other chemical processing (only aeration, pH adjustment, and filtration)." How is pH adjustment not "chemical processing"?? How do they alkalinize water without adding alkaline electrolytes (Mg,K,Na, etc.) in chemical form?
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Treatments based on filtering and evaporation aren't considered chemical processing. You can play with the ph level of the water by simply filter or let it evaporate.
kristofferR 11y ago
Much of the same could be written about Oslo. Just this summer the city opened up a pretty big man made beach/bath in the middle of the harbor: http://www.sorenga.no/beliggenhet/om-sorenga/sjobadet/ http://www.sorenga.no/beliggenhet/om-sorenga/sjobadet/ How they cleaned it up is actually pretty interesting. Obviously they stopped dumping waste in it in the first place. After that they placed a lot of ropes and concrete structures all over the ocean floor, to give starfish and other ocean creatures habitats. Those creatures did most of the cleaning, humans just facilitated it. Here's an article in Norwegian about it: http://www.aftenposten.no/viten/Fjernet-kloakklukten-fra-Oslofjorden-med-tjukke-tau-og-sjostjerner-8184545.html http://www.aftenposten.no/viten/Fjernet-kloakklukten-fra-Osl...
Salamat 11y ago
Upon visiting 3 years ago, I think water quality is felt in the food too, which was awesome too, it made me over eat at breakfast and other meals, the air quality made me walk for hours, I walked into the palace's square then flew above it, it was incredible how friendly and nice it was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRnTBsofMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRnTBsofMk
jgalt212 11y ago
Are Copenhagen cancer rates lower that other similar cities?
mcv 11y ago
This is not just true in Denmark; the Rhine used to be incredibly polluted back in the 1980s, but now it's pretty clean. The Amsterdam canals are a lot cleaner, though the inner city canals are not used for swimming, but I think that's more an issue of facilities and awareness than of water quality. But in the eastern harbor area, kids love to swim. The increased water quality is one of the big successes of increased environmental awareness that environmental organizations fought for in the 1980s.
- jfoks 11y ago
  The Rhine does not flow through Denmark.
  - mcv 11y ago
    Absolutely true, but irrelevant. Or maybe relevant because it's my point.
k_sze 11y ago
Being a Hong Konger, I'm quite surprised that people have to worry about water quality in Northern Europe. I mean, Hong Kong is pretty much downstream from the Pearl River. That water runs through some of the most industrialized areas of China. And if you think I trust Chinese authorities for matters in environmental protection, you'd be dead wrong. Yet, Hong Kongers generally don't worry too much about the water quality around here. People eat the seafood caught around here without second thought. People even swim in the Victoria Harbour. In fact, we hold cross-harbour swim races in winter and nobody seems to get sick from the water. All of this isn't to say that people are paranoid. I'm just surprised that this is an issue.

129 points by xenophon 11y ago

Copenhagen tap water is chalky - your glasses get cloudy when washed with it. It's also not very good tasting to a lot of people including me. To me, there is great water throughout scandinavia with the exception of denmark because of the chalky soil.

Sami_Lehtinen 11y ago
I would probably consider that water bad. Because in the water in Chicago, New York and Washington is Ok. But in Miami it was just wasn't that great anymore. Having chalk in the water is a sure way to run it's taste. Actually I'm quite curious how it's possible that Singapore had good water. From geography alone I would assume it's water would be bad.
- s_q_b 11y ago
  Washington state, or Washington D.C.? Because D.C.'s water is actually so bad it can be dangerous. You can't even believe the water quality reports because the Federal agencies distort them wildly. There was a massive scandal that resulted in both the CDC and EPA being caught falsifying evidence. See the WASA lead contamination scandal from 2001-2010, in which the EPA falsely claimed that the water was safe, even as their treatment chemicals were dissolving lead in pipes and joints. The CDC was charged with determining the extent of the problem, and claimed that the high levels of lead were not a public health risk, a claim that later investigators from independent institutions stated were "scientifically indefensible." Lead levels in the last decade were found to be as high as 83 times the acceptable standard for drinking water. The water comes from the Potomac, is heavily treated with chloramine (which unlike chlorine dissolves lead), then runs through mains which were laid generally between the Civil War and WWI, and finally into old 5-6 story buildings (which due to height restrictions are often remodeled but seldom rebuilt), almost all of which have lead in the plumbing. The water is so bad that even the heavily filtered water at my home has a terrible taste. The government claims that the problem is "almost certainly resolved" after the addition of further treatment chemicals, not including the removal of chloramine, which frankly makes their claims implausible. The Washington Post estimates that ~15,000 households in the city are still receiving extremely high dosages of lead. Oh, and the Potomac is essentially sludge downstream from the city. The beautiful waterfront in Georgetown is actually the site of a CSO (Combined Sewer Overflow), so that every time it rains, the city's untreated sewage is dumped at the very location where the river is most used.
  - eli 11y ago
    To be fair, the people wgo still have high lead in their water is because they have lead pipes on their property.
    - s_q_b 11y ago
      The lead is in the mains, and with most of the apartments in any decent neighborhood approaching 1 million for a two bedroom, it's not like you can purchase a building and replace the plumbing. The problem is a government that injected a cheaper treatment chemical into the water supply that dissolves that lead, and then lies about it to the public.
      - eli 11y ago
        Do you have a link with more details? I was under impression vulnerable lead mains were replaced
        s_q_b 11y ago
        Dashing this off from the Christmas table, so as expected most immediate Google results are the government pages. Here's the replacement description. You'll notice that they're still actively replacing mains (at an extraordinarily slow rate, essentially whenever a line needs service.) If memory serves, the main line for half the city was laid during the Lincoln administration. I believe the average annual replacement rate is around 1%. Replacement information: https://www.dcwater.com/lead/scheduled_replacements.cfm https://www.dcwater.com/lead/scheduled_replacements.cfm
- oska 11y ago
  > Actually I'm quite curious how it's possible that Singapore had good water. From geography alone I would assume it's water would be bad. It's an interesting subject to read about. Here are some links: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_supply_and_sanitation_in... * http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/environment/singapores-water-supply-where-does-it-come-from http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/environment/singapores... * http://www.dw.com/en/singapores-toilet-to-tap-concept/a-16904636 http://www.dw.com/en/singapores-toilet-to-tap-concept/a-1690...
- MrQuincle 11y ago
  Just came back from Singapore. The water is nice indeed. Hasn't a chalky taste. I found the water in New York (Manhattan) too chalky as well. This is the water purification setup near my home, Rotterdam, the Netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGw8FH3I58 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbGw8FH3I58. I guess it's a setup like everywhere else. Of course the Dutch have a name in the water industry, so there might be more reason to do it right than in other countries. Still, there are plenty of things to improve. - The systems for sewerage and surface water / rain are not separated everywhere for example. - The "Hoogheemraadschap" responsible for keeping surface water clean is the oldest political system in Holland. At first sight a nice idea, but do we really have to democratically elect these people? What about firefighters, police officers, army generals? - A friend of mine organizes a yearly swimming event in the Maas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meuse). It's still not as clean as it could be though. The industry, for example Sitech, dumps chemicals in the water and institutions like the one above don't fine fast and high enough. If you're Dutch you can watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99WW9ALModY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99WW9ALModY
mcv 11y ago
In my experience, Amsterdam has the best tap water. I haven't found a mineral water that tastes that good.
- bjelkeman-again 11y ago
  I think it must be what one is used to. I am in Stockholm but visit Amsterdam often. I prefer Stockholm water.
Tharkun 11y ago
It's an acquired taste. I grew up in an area with very hard water. Whenever I drink tapwater that isn't hard as rocks, I get disappointed. It's just so...bland.

danielovich 11y ago

If you're used to bottled water, tap water is different in taste, of course. But we don't drink bottled water in Scandinavia because our tap water is of great quality, unlike a lot of other places. The tap water in Copenhagen varies a lot. Depending on the plant your hooked up too. It can be very chalky and it can be very smooth. Strangly enough this is not throughout the rest of the country. Copenhagen water is probably the worst compared to the rest of the country. Jumping in the harbor is okay, but it's far from being as clear as going to the beach.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

plorkyeran 11y ago

Copenhagen's tap water is undrinkably foul. Perhaps it is safe to drink, but I still had to buy bottled water simply due to the taste, and I find the idea of praising the strong flavor baffling.

danc86 11y ago
"Undrinkably foul" seems a bit melodramatic. It certainly has that distinctive minerally taste common to groundwater, which is quite noticeable to someone like me (and maybe you?) who lives in a city with chemically treated surface water. But in Europe using untreated or minimally treated groundwater seems to be a common approach and Copenhagen's was amongst the most neutral tasting to me. Iceland for example has much stronger tasting tap water.
- christoph 11y ago
  I would totally agree about the melodramatic. Try some water in parts of southern England. Would you like some water with your chlorine sir?
  - jwdunne 11y ago
    Yeah, the waters meant to be a lot harder down south. In the north west, you can taste the difference between filtered water and tap water but I happily drink tap water all day long.
- dzhiurgis 11y ago
  This exactly. Just came back from Japan && New Zealand to Lithuania. I always thought we had great water, but now it tasted slightly foul (although very soft). I doubt that it gotten worse as we do a lot improve it. Also, will never forget water in Switzerland (namely - Chur). Perfect, crisp, cold mountain water. Yumm. The worst water was in American Samoa, smelled like feces.
- _delirium 11y ago
  I don't think it has much to do with chemical treatment or not. A lot of U.S. cities also have hard water; that depends mostly on the source, with groundwater sources having more minerals than reservoir or lake sources. The main differences in U.S. treatment are that it fluoridates and chlorinates the water, it doesn't normally do demineralization. Also the fluoridation isn't even really a difference in this case: Copenhagen's water supply naturally has high levels of fluoride, similar to the levels that the U.S. adds. But I agree Copenhagen's water is fine for drinking. I even like the taste. What it's a problem for is fixtures and appliances, which chalk up extremely fast, even compared to other areas I've lived with hard water. Showers, faucets, etc. all needs to be "de-kalked" at least every week, ideally every few days. Even simply leaving a glass of water out on the counter for one day will start to produce chalk lines that take effort to remove. Keeping an espresso machine operational is also a challenge, requiring pretty religious usage of the cleaning cycle with a de-chalking tablet.

grandalf 11y ago

Rivers used to be considered a form of free garbage/pollution disposal. Even in relatively modern cities like New York, the rivers are still fairly disgusting. I'd be quite surprised if existing environmental regulations are being enforced there now.

abhinai 11y ago

This link forces you to see an ad for 15 secs before revealing its content. Shouldn't such links be penalized?

mirimir 11y ago
No ad for me ;)

mirimir 11y ago

In the '80s and '90s, water in New York City was excellent. It wasn't even chlorinated! But then the city lost the fight against development in upstate watersheds :( So it goes.

awl130 11y ago
new york tap is still amazing, compared to la

aftbit 11y ago

> Danes pay the highest water rates in Europe, at 6.33 Euros per 1,000 liters or 264 gallons (compare France at 3.35 Euros and Sweden at 2.73). According to SFPUC[1] & WolframAlpha[2], the rate in a San Francisco multi-family is around €1.80/kL for the first ~8.5kL/month. This is exclusive of the meter flat rate and any other taxes and fees. Charging 3.5x as much for water makes a lot of things possible. 1: http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=169 http://www.sfwater.org/index.aspx?page=169 2: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5.58%24%2F748+gal+to+eur%2Fkiloliter http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=5.58%24%2F748+gal+to+eu...

api_or_ipa 11y ago
In most parts of Vancouver, water is still free. We just installed water metres in some parts of the city a few years ago. We're incredibly fortunate to have a massive mountain range and water shed immediately north of the city that provides us with some of the best water I've ever drank.
- jpollock 11y ago
  That just means it is paid for from general property taxes, not that it is free. In other words it is a subsidy from apartment dwellers with no grass to single family home owners.
Dylan16807 11y ago
Note in particular that you can desalinate water forever at 1.5 euros per kiloliter.
- jsprogrammer 11y ago
  I doubt that a desalination plant can run on plastic currency, or that such plastic could run a plant 'forever'.
  - Dylan16807 11y ago
    I assure you, if you keep throwing in coins in proportion to the water you take, the well will never run dry (modulo some scaling delays). Am I missing a joke?

graeme 11y ago

Are the underground aquifers in question renewable? Also, how is it that the aquifers don't require purification? Sounds like a good system. Just wondering how long if it can last long term, and if other places can adopt it.

ArleneBarlow 11y ago
probably because the aquifer is naturally filtered through rock and is not exposed to surface contaminants
- tonfa 11y ago
  Yes, the ground acts as the filter. There's a similar setup in Zurich, ground water is directly drinkable (iirc they oxygenate it a bit for test), while the lake water goes through sand filters (it is generally drinkable, but much better to remove particles). Something weird I learned while visiting is that they put extra chalk on purpose to prevent pipes from deteriorating in old buildings (they experimented with lower amounts and had some troubles with leakage).
DrScump 11y ago
They are, but they aren't like canteens -- you can't just empty one indefinitely and refill it arbitrarily later. Aquifers can collapse into voids that should have water, and being full of fresh water helps prevent intrusion by saltwater near the coasts (this is happening in the Central Coast even now), or by fracking waste in fracked areas.
tonfa 11y ago
Where I live (CH) they reinject water into the ground as they pump it, to preserve the aquifer levels. iirc they have some kind of pressure monitoring. The water there is already purified and clean (slowly went through rocks). It's actually super impressive to see the well, it is so clear that the water level is not visible, looks like it is totally empty.
DrScump 11y ago
More on California's collapsing aquifers: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10799116

jkot 11y ago

I hate to spoil perfect record, but in 2011 there was E.coli alert in Copenhagen: http://phys.org/news/2011-08-copenhagen-ecoli.html http://phys.org/news/2011-08-copenhagen-ecoli.html Also EU has relaxed limits for nitrates, to the point it could hurt infants and some aquarium fish. When some post-soviet countries were joining EU, our nitrate limits were considered too strict, and we had to lower them.

dzhiurgis 11y ago
I know in post soviet countries, due to nitrates, there were few programmes to close traditional wells used in very small towns and drill deep wells instead.
- spdionis 11y ago
  Provably depends on the region but there's no water as good as water from traditional wells in rural areas here.

dbcooper 11y ago

When I lived in Lyngby, the water was hard and poor for washing shirts. Hardly perfect.

lbenes 11y ago

The warn the residents after a bird dies, while on the other side of the pond, we're dumping the entire 37 million gallons of their reservoir into the sewer after a boy pees in it.[1] Why can't we have a sane government that acts with logic and science? You know like one that immediately closed factories that were linked to salmonella outbreaks. Instead of punting for TEN YEARS while thousands of Americans get sick.[2] [1] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27069611 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-27069611 [2] http://www.oregonlive.com/usda-salmonella/ http://www.oregonlive.com/usda-salmonella/

googleir 11y ago

As a Californian who spent a few months there: It is cold as hell, and I don't have any clue why locals don't sense how cold the weather is.

DrScump 11y ago

"Public drinking water is now so clean that it’s better than bottled water, says Mayor of Technical and Environmental Affairs Morten Kabell—and that’s without chlorine or other chemical processing (only aeration, pH adjustment, and filtration)." How is pH adjustment not "chemical processing"?? How do they alkalinize water without adding alkaline electrolytes (Mg,K,Na, etc.) in chemical form?

dogma1138 11y ago
Treatments based on filtering and evaporation aren't considered chemical processing. You can play with the ph level of the water by simply filter or let it evaporate.

kristofferR 11y ago

Much of the same could be written about Oslo. Just this summer the city opened up a pretty big man made beach/bath in the middle of the harbor: http://www.sorenga.no/beliggenhet/om-sorenga/sjobadet/ http://www.sorenga.no/beliggenhet/om-sorenga/sjobadet/ How they cleaned it up is actually pretty interesting. Obviously they stopped dumping waste in it in the first place. After that they placed a lot of ropes and concrete structures all over the ocean floor, to give starfish and other ocean creatures habitats. Those creatures did most of the cleaning, humans just facilitated it. Here's an article in Norwegian about it: http://www.aftenposten.no/viten/Fjernet-kloakklukten-fra-Oslofjorden-med-tjukke-tau-og-sjostjerner-8184545.html http://www.aftenposten.no/viten/Fjernet-kloakklukten-fra-Osl...

Salamat 11y ago

Upon visiting 3 years ago, I think water quality is felt in the food too, which was awesome too, it made me over eat at breakfast and other meals, the air quality made me walk for hours, I walked into the palace's square then flew above it, it was incredible how friendly and nice it was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRnTBsofMk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrRnTBsofMk

jgalt212 11y ago

Are Copenhagen cancer rates lower that other similar cities?

mcv 11y ago

This is not just true in Denmark; the Rhine used to be incredibly polluted back in the 1980s, but now it's pretty clean. The Amsterdam canals are a lot cleaner, though the inner city canals are not used for swimming, but I think that's more an issue of facilities and awareness than of water quality. But in the eastern harbor area, kids love to swim. The increased water quality is one of the big successes of increased environmental awareness that environmental organizations fought for in the 1980s.

jfoks 11y ago
The Rhine does not flow through Denmark.
- mcv 11y ago
  Absolutely true, but irrelevant. Or maybe relevant because it's my point.

k_sze 11y ago

Being a Hong Konger, I'm quite surprised that people have to worry about water quality in Northern Europe. I mean, Hong Kong is pretty much downstream from the Pearl River. That water runs through some of the most industrialized areas of China. And if you think I trust Chinese authorities for matters in environmental protection, you'd be dead wrong. Yet, Hong Kongers generally don't worry too much about the water quality around here. People eat the seafood caught around here without second thought. People even swim in the Victoria Harbour. In fact, we hold cross-harbour swim races in winter and nobody seems to get sick from the water. All of this isn't to say that people are paranoid. I'm just surprised that this is an issue.