7 ms·

I used to fly remote control aeroplanes as a hobby. There's a really strong culture of having a licence and insurance before you're allowed to fly solo. You hav

by shocks 11y ago

I used to fly remote control aeroplanes as a hobby. There's a really strong culture of having a licence and insurance before you're allowed to fly solo. You have to pass a test before you can get insurance, and there are more tests if you want to fly around spectators (stunt shows, etc). This seems to be completely missing in the drone community. I quizzed some drone enthusiasts about it and they responded with "meh", touting that they have home insurance and it doesn't matter.

itgoon 11y ago
There isn't really a drone community. With RC, almost everybody involved was an enthusiast who would meet with other enthusiasts. Anybody interested, even for a few minutes, can get a drone. This is the RC world's "Eternal September".
- shocks 11y ago
  Ha, that is true. I had to join a club before I even knew what to buy...
  - IshKebab 11y ago
    That sounds rubbish to be honest.
    - NoNotTheDuo 11y ago
      I think the intent was that he joined an RC club so he knew what planes/parts/tools/etc were quality and which were junk. Not that he had to actually join a club in order to purchase anything.
      - lmm 11y ago
        Sure. That still sounds much worse in many ways than all the info being up on Tom's Drones or wherever.
        NickNameNick 11y ago
        The info was on rec.models.rc.air and rec.models.rc.heli and flyinggiants.com for scale enthusiasts, and runryder for heli enthusiasts, and .... etc. They are fantastic resources,but they aren't in-person help. Local clubs were a much better experience, because they could tell you about the local stores, or lend you the tools and supplies that you only need once (I'm looking at you, green loctite), or help you assemble that tricky part that has terrible instructions. Also, in a time before ready to fly models, everything came as a broken down, or partially assembled kit. Having someone who knew what they were doing check that you had assembled your very expensive model correctly was an enormous benefit. For a new pilot, having an experienced pilot fly your airplane for the first time, and sort out the trim, etc saved a lot of people a lot of time, money and heartache. You don't really need any of that with a multicopter - they're so much simpler mechanically. I can see how they've gotten away without that kind of community, but i still think it's a major loss.
        shocks 11y ago
        Exactly this. The quality of advice is also much better. The first thing they'll tell you is "you need to get insurance, these things are not toys". Now you can walk into Maplin (UK electronics store) and buy a £200 drone as a Christmas gift for your 12 year old. The rep who sells you the drone won't tell you about insurance, or how dangerous they can be, or anything...
        shocks 11y ago
        It might be worse in some ways, but I'm really referring to the fact that I had to go to a specific group of people (a club) and request information. They gave me the best quality information. The same probably would've happened if I went to a aeromodelling shop (back then the nearest one was an hour drive away). I went Christmas shopping today and saw various £200+ drones for sale in high street shops. You can walk in, buy one, and walk out no questions asked. Great in many ways, terrible in others. It gives no opportunity to raises issues about liability and the fact that these things are not really toys. One of the first things I learnt at my club was just how easily a prop will take off your finger (by way of a carrot). They are not toys.
- at-fates-hands 11y ago
  >> This is the RC world's "Eternal September" I would liken it to the Wild West, where anybody with money can buy a fairly large quadcopter and go fly it without many consequences. I'm glad there is a push to get these registered. I think one of the reasons there isn't a greater push for safety (licensing and insurance) is you're not seeing the stories that would compel the general public to react and have a large outcry over drones yet. Yes, you've seen some privacy issues surrounding them, but stuff like kids getting severely injured or this causing a ten car pile up on the highway hasn't happened yet - or at least not that I'm aware of. Thus, with no major public outcry, the politicians have no desire to push for laws that regulate the industry and the people using them. I'm sure in time, we'll start see more stringent regulation of drones, but for now, there is little if any. full disclosure: I own several drones and do aerial videography as part of my job.
  - yohui 11y ago
    > stuff like kids getting severely injured A baby lost an eye: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936739 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-349367...
jonknee 11y ago
Why would you assume a major TV broadcaster wouldn't use sufficiently capable pilots and not have insurance? I would be shocked if they were not very well insured.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  They may have taken some lessons from Uber and figured that uninsured contractors are a good option :). I guess we'll find out as the investigation goes forward.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- shocks 11y ago
  Sorry, I wasn't really commenting on this exact situation in particular - more the general problem of enthusiast drones which is becoming quite a hot topic in my country (UK). I'm sure they had insurance and I'm sure the pilot was competent!
Shivetya 11y ago
Well drones are ideally suited to eventually being equipped with light weight sensors to prevent collisions. If the tech could be on cameras, I think it was ultrasonic, surely it has improved enough that even simply avoidance systems are possible.
- NickNameNick 11y ago
  It's not that easy. Ultrasonics don't work well in fast moving air. High resolution time-of-flight cameras as extremely expensive. Parallax camera systems have prohibitive processing requirements (that may change). Structured light sensors are prone to being blinded by the sun.
- shocks 11y ago
  I don't think we'll have this for a few more years, and even then it'll be really expensive.
baddox 11y ago
What remote control model aircraft license are you talking about? I'm not aware of such a thing in the USA.
- kordless 11y ago
  AMA for one. It's more like a membership than anything, and they provide guidance and some basic insurance coverage for when things happen, which they hardly ever do. Most fields require you are an AMA member and that you have insurance. Most home owners insurance covers this as well, or at least it did a few years back.
- shocks 11y ago
  This one: https://bmfa.org/ https://bmfa.org/ There are three tiers that I remember. A, B, and C. You get insurance through the BMFA, and an A licence allows you to fly solo. B is required for performing at shows. C is for bigger models and teaching/exams etc (iirc).
ck2 11y ago
People pretty much fly toy quadcopters the same way people open their car door into your car door, bang it up and don't give a damn. It's somewhere between apathy and "try to catch/stop me". The required registration now is almost hilarious, it's just going to be a way to give a huge fine after an incident for unregistered drones, no-one is going to register unless all the stores get together and do it for you when you buy it automatically (and then people will just buy direct from China).

by shocks 11y ago

itgoon 11y ago

There isn't really a drone community. With RC, almost everybody involved was an enthusiast who would meet with other enthusiasts. Anybody interested, even for a few minutes, can get a drone. This is the RC world's "Eternal September".

shocks 11y ago
Ha, that is true. I had to join a club before I even knew what to buy...
- IshKebab 11y ago
  That sounds rubbish to be honest.
  - NoNotTheDuo 11y ago
    I think the intent was that he joined an RC club so he knew what planes/parts/tools/etc were quality and which were junk. Not that he had to actually join a club in order to purchase anything.
    - lmm 11y ago
      Sure. That still sounds much worse in many ways than all the info being up on Tom's Drones or wherever.
      - NickNameNick 11y ago
        The info was on rec.models.rc.air and rec.models.rc.heli and flyinggiants.com for scale enthusiasts, and runryder for heli enthusiasts, and .... etc. They are fantastic resources,but they aren't in-person help. Local clubs were a much better experience, because they could tell you about the local stores, or lend you the tools and supplies that you only need once (I'm looking at you, green loctite), or help you assemble that tricky part that has terrible instructions. Also, in a time before ready to fly models, everything came as a broken down, or partially assembled kit. Having someone who knew what they were doing check that you had assembled your very expensive model correctly was an enormous benefit. For a new pilot, having an experienced pilot fly your airplane for the first time, and sort out the trim, etc saved a lot of people a lot of time, money and heartache. You don't really need any of that with a multicopter - they're so much simpler mechanically. I can see how they've gotten away without that kind of community, but i still think it's a major loss.
        shocks 11y ago
        Exactly this. The quality of advice is also much better. The first thing they'll tell you is "you need to get insurance, these things are not toys". Now you can walk into Maplin (UK electronics store) and buy a £200 drone as a Christmas gift for your 12 year old. The rep who sells you the drone won't tell you about insurance, or how dangerous they can be, or anything...
      - shocks 11y ago
        It might be worse in some ways, but I'm really referring to the fact that I had to go to a specific group of people (a club) and request information. They gave me the best quality information. The same probably would've happened if I went to a aeromodelling shop (back then the nearest one was an hour drive away). I went Christmas shopping today and saw various £200+ drones for sale in high street shops. You can walk in, buy one, and walk out no questions asked. Great in many ways, terrible in others. It gives no opportunity to raises issues about liability and the fact that these things are not really toys. One of the first things I learnt at my club was just how easily a prop will take off your finger (by way of a carrot). They are not toys.
at-fates-hands 11y ago
>> This is the RC world's "Eternal September" I would liken it to the Wild West, where anybody with money can buy a fairly large quadcopter and go fly it without many consequences. I'm glad there is a push to get these registered. I think one of the reasons there isn't a greater push for safety (licensing and insurance) is you're not seeing the stories that would compel the general public to react and have a large outcry over drones yet. Yes, you've seen some privacy issues surrounding them, but stuff like kids getting severely injured or this causing a ten car pile up on the highway hasn't happened yet - or at least not that I'm aware of. Thus, with no major public outcry, the politicians have no desire to push for laws that regulate the industry and the people using them. I'm sure in time, we'll start see more stringent regulation of drones, but for now, there is little if any. full disclosure: I own several drones and do aerial videography as part of my job.
- yohui 11y ago
  > stuff like kids getting severely injured A baby lost an eye: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936739 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-349367...

jonknee 11y ago

Why would you assume a major TV broadcaster wouldn't use sufficiently capable pilots and not have insurance? I would be shocked if they were not very well insured.

TeMPOraL 11y ago
They may have taken some lessons from Uber and figured that uninsured contractors are a good option :). I guess we'll find out as the investigation goes forward.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
shocks 11y ago
Sorry, I wasn't really commenting on this exact situation in particular - more the general problem of enthusiast drones which is becoming quite a hot topic in my country (UK). I'm sure they had insurance and I'm sure the pilot was competent!

Shivetya 11y ago

Well drones are ideally suited to eventually being equipped with light weight sensors to prevent collisions. If the tech could be on cameras, I think it was ultrasonic, surely it has improved enough that even simply avoidance systems are possible.

NickNameNick 11y ago
It's not that easy. Ultrasonics don't work well in fast moving air. High resolution time-of-flight cameras as extremely expensive. Parallax camera systems have prohibitive processing requirements (that may change). Structured light sensors are prone to being blinded by the sun.
shocks 11y ago
I don't think we'll have this for a few more years, and even then it'll be really expensive.

baddox 11y ago

What remote control model aircraft license are you talking about? I'm not aware of such a thing in the USA.

kordless 11y ago
AMA for one. It's more like a membership than anything, and they provide guidance and some basic insurance coverage for when things happen, which they hardly ever do. Most fields require you are an AMA member and that you have insurance. Most home owners insurance covers this as well, or at least it did a few years back.
shocks 11y ago
This one: https://bmfa.org/ https://bmfa.org/ There are three tiers that I remember. A, B, and C. You get insurance through the BMFA, and an A licence allows you to fly solo. B is required for performing at shows. C is for bigger models and teaching/exams etc (iirc).

ck2 11y ago

People pretty much fly toy quadcopters the same way people open their car door into your car door, bang it up and don't give a damn. It's somewhere between apathy and "try to catch/stop me". The required registration now is almost hilarious, it's just going to be a way to give a huge fine after an incident for unregistered drones, no-one is going to register unless all the stores get together and do it for you when you buy it automatically (and then people will just buy direct from China).