7 ms·

Announcing Handmade Quake

129 points by jhack 11y ago

jhack 11y ago
There are already several episodes uploaded. The playlist is here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBKDuv-qJpTbCsXHsxcoSSsMarnfyNhHF https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBKDuv-qJpTbCsXHsxcoS...
- beyti 11y ago
  Thank you. I would love to see him use twitch for higher value & experience to subscribers.
  - shrewduser 11y ago
    higher value and experience?
  - ablation 11y ago
    Confused by this. Can you expand on what "higher value" and "experience" the audience would gain from this being on Twitch?
    - beyti 11y ago
      compared to youtube, twitch is a streaming experience with subscribers can comment on chat instantly. I think, allowing subscribers to ask or comment instantly in what the caster does atm is an amazing opportunity. And not suggesting the streaming twitch over youtube because of same time follow up (as told in another reply), agreed that it would be really hard to simultaneously replicate him.
  - nosage 11y ago
    I would not recommend game dev on twitch, example: handmade hero, awesome project, super great guy, but it is nearly impossible to follow what is going on.
- vox_mollis 11y ago
  Watching the first couple videos, it looks like his claim, of building Quake from scratch, is not at all what he's actually doing in these videos, which is walking through the existing Quake source.
  - jhack 11y ago
    The 0.x videos are a walkthrough of getting the Quake source to compile and run. He goes on to mention that afterwards there'll be a couple of videos on C programming and then the main series will begin after that.
    - vox_mollis 11y ago
      Got it, ok. Thanks.
jackhack 11y ago
This looks to be similar to the Handmade Hero project (https://handmadehero.org/ https://handmadehero.org/) which I love, but rather than building a modern RPG in the case of HH, Handmade Quake seems to be focused on rebuilding that familiar classic shoot-em-up, step-by-step, one line of code (and presumably one concept) at a time. I'm sure the folks at id would be pleased, as they routinely opensource their games to share knowledge with others. These two projects are as close to a game development masterclass as one can get.
- stagger87 11y ago
  If your goal is to learn about game development, I would avoid Handmade Hero. Over 200+ days into the project, and he still has a rats nest of a 90's era style Windows code base. It's clear he didn't put any pedagogical thought into the project. Masterclass is the wrong word to describe HH.
  - AlexeyBrin 11y ago
    You are as wrong as you could get, the Handmade Hero project has about 200 hours and not 200 days as in 200 working days. Everything is coded live and recorded, so for 200 hours of work he is doing quite well. The Windows specific code is localized in the platform code and this could be swapped with something Linux or OS X specific at any time.
    - User0124 11y ago
      Come one, don't do a strawman. Parent is factually correct that HH project has been going on for 200 days. Nowhere was even implied that 200 working days were put into the project.
      - AlexeyBrin 11y ago
        All it matters is the actual time spent coding, 200+ hours of coding is well reflected in the actual code size and game development.
bcherny 11y ago
seems that at some point source will be here https://github.com/philipbuuck/HandmadeQuake https://github.com/philipbuuck/HandmadeQuake
joakleaf 11y ago
I feel compelled to link to Michael Abrash's amazing and inspiring series of articles written when Quake was developed (don't know if there is a better link): Ramblings in Realtime: http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/ http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/ I read this while I was in high-school and worked on my own 3D engine in parallel (inspired by Abrash's articles). As this was written while quake was under development, you get the reel feeling of the challenges they went through during development. Through "beam trees", z-buffer, to finally end at the PVS and sorted edge rasterization and mip-mapping technique that made the whole thing wrong smooth enough in the end. There is a similarly lengthy description of the considerations they had regarding shadow maps vs. e.g. gouraud shading. Carmack and Abrash's experience is very much trial-and-error and that's inspiring, because you realize that they went down many dead ends in order to find the right way to solve the problems. It's not some sort of divine stroke of genius, but far more their determination that solves the problems in the end. Of course Abrash also mentions some of the uglier hacks.
- douche 11y ago
  Another very interesting exploration of the Quake source is Fabien Sanglard'[1]. He has done reviews of several of the Id games that have been released. [1] http://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php http://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- agumonkey 11y ago
  I stumbled upon this book in the college library. I spent the next 3 days in there.
cbd1984 11y ago
These two sentences seem to be in tension: > It is named Handmade Quake thanks to the inspiration of the Handmade Dev community, and following the spirit of their manifesto, we will be starting with a blank Visual Studio project, nothing pre-written at all, and file by file, will turn it into the source code that id Software released to the world in late 1999. > The main goal for this project is to show you how full video games are actually built. Modern AAA games always seem to be written around a pre-written engine. Yes, the engine had to be written at some point, but it was likely a modified form of a pre-existing engine, and so on, iteratively, until you end up with a blank project you're writing in Turbo C or something similar which existed for MS-DOS in the later 1980s, pre-dating Quake. My point is, modern AAA game development isn't clean slate. It's modification of existing code, which is a topic that seems rather under-emphasized in the introductory programming literature. It would be interesting to see some series of videos which were all about making a non-trivial change to some large codebase which has evolved for a few decades.
- binarycrusader 11y ago
  If you're trying to argue "pre-built" on the basis that they started with some existing code, that defines almost all software, so does not seems like a useful definition. I think most commenters here would generally associate "pre-built" with the licensing of an existing engine available on the open market. Such as Unity, UE4, etc. The very top AAA game studio actually use their own proprietary engines. For example, EA uses the Frostbite Engine in many titles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games Even if I were to accept the strict definition you proposed, many of the upcoming titles on PlayStation 4, such as Dreams and Tomorrow's Children are essentially completely new game engines. They're breaking new ground in rendering and gameplay technology and are as reasonably close to "from scratch" as you're going to get at this point.
- frou_dh 11y ago
  I don't find the "AAA" nomenclature worthwhile. So-called AAA development can be akin to factory farming and deliver garbage come release day. It's not necessarily doing anything right or wrong. Quake was primarily a GOOD game, and if it must be classified further, a HIGH-END game.
stevebmark 11y ago
"The series will likely be starting right around the beginning of 2016" I really hope you do this. I also suspect you have underestimated the incredible workload this will be, and this shouldn't receive any hype until you start delivering. It will likely take 1-2 days to edit and produce 1 hour of video, and making a full game along with making full, good quality videos, will take, well...good luck!
AlexeyBrin 11y ago
What I find a bit disappointing is that this won't be a remake in the sense of writing the code in modern C99/C11, but rather a copy/paste with comments of the original code according to https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xy110/announcing_handmade_quake/cy90vnl https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xy110/announc... .
sutro 11y ago
I would encourage Philip Buuck to call the series Artisanal Quake.
OliverSadie 11y ago
applause
thyagobr 11y ago
So this is another Handmade series that you need to extrapolate knowledge if you want to follow on Linux, right? Nothing against it, of course, but, since I'm new to game programming, trying to learn SDL as I learned this stuff back in Handmade Hero was a huge pain, I couldn't get past the 14th episode or so.
- agentultra 11y ago
  The port to Linux will happen later. I forget the exact episode Casey justifies this but basically the problem for game developers is that every other platform other than Window is not a good target platform if you want to stay in business. So he's showing people how to target Windows first and will show us how to port later. Just go look at the Steam hardware survey to find out why.
jokoon 11y ago
I predict that this won't be for the feign of heart.

129 points by jhack 11y ago

jhack 11y ago

There are already several episodes uploaded. The playlist is here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBKDuv-qJpTbCsXHsxcoSSsMarnfyNhHF https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBKDuv-qJpTbCsXHsxcoS...

beyti 11y ago
Thank you. I would love to see him use twitch for higher value & experience to subscribers.
- shrewduser 11y ago
  higher value and experience?
- ablation 11y ago
  Confused by this. Can you expand on what "higher value" and "experience" the audience would gain from this being on Twitch?
  - beyti 11y ago
    compared to youtube, twitch is a streaming experience with subscribers can comment on chat instantly. I think, allowing subscribers to ask or comment instantly in what the caster does atm is an amazing opportunity. And not suggesting the streaming twitch over youtube because of same time follow up (as told in another reply), agreed that it would be really hard to simultaneously replicate him.
- nosage 11y ago
  I would not recommend game dev on twitch, example: handmade hero, awesome project, super great guy, but it is nearly impossible to follow what is going on.
vox_mollis 11y ago
Watching the first couple videos, it looks like his claim, of building Quake from scratch, is not at all what he's actually doing in these videos, which is walking through the existing Quake source.
- jhack 11y ago
  The 0.x videos are a walkthrough of getting the Quake source to compile and run. He goes on to mention that afterwards there'll be a couple of videos on C programming and then the main series will begin after that.
  - vox_mollis 11y ago
    Got it, ok. Thanks.

jackhack 11y ago

This looks to be similar to the Handmade Hero project (https://handmadehero.org/ https://handmadehero.org/) which I love, but rather than building a modern RPG in the case of HH, Handmade Quake seems to be focused on rebuilding that familiar classic shoot-em-up, step-by-step, one line of code (and presumably one concept) at a time. I'm sure the folks at id would be pleased, as they routinely opensource their games to share knowledge with others. These two projects are as close to a game development masterclass as one can get.

stagger87 11y ago
If your goal is to learn about game development, I would avoid Handmade Hero. Over 200+ days into the project, and he still has a rats nest of a 90's era style Windows code base. It's clear he didn't put any pedagogical thought into the project. Masterclass is the wrong word to describe HH.
- AlexeyBrin 11y ago
  You are as wrong as you could get, the Handmade Hero project has about 200 hours and not 200 days as in 200 working days. Everything is coded live and recorded, so for 200 hours of work he is doing quite well. The Windows specific code is localized in the platform code and this could be swapped with something Linux or OS X specific at any time.
  - User0124 11y ago
    Come one, don't do a strawman. Parent is factually correct that HH project has been going on for 200 days. Nowhere was even implied that 200 working days were put into the project.
    - AlexeyBrin 11y ago
      All it matters is the actual time spent coding, 200+ hours of coding is well reflected in the actual code size and game development.

bcherny 11y ago

seems that at some point source will be here https://github.com/philipbuuck/HandmadeQuake https://github.com/philipbuuck/HandmadeQuake

joakleaf 11y ago

I feel compelled to link to Michael Abrash's amazing and inspiring series of articles written when Quake was developed (don't know if there is a better link): Ramblings in Realtime: http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/ http://www.bluesnews.com/abrash/ I read this while I was in high-school and worked on my own 3D engine in parallel (inspired by Abrash's articles). As this was written while quake was under development, you get the reel feeling of the challenges they went through during development. Through "beam trees", z-buffer, to finally end at the PVS and sorted edge rasterization and mip-mapping technique that made the whole thing wrong smooth enough in the end. There is a similarly lengthy description of the considerations they had regarding shadow maps vs. e.g. gouraud shading. Carmack and Abrash's experience is very much trial-and-error and that's inspiring, because you realize that they went down many dead ends in order to find the right way to solve the problems. It's not some sort of divine stroke of genius, but far more their determination that solves the problems in the end. Of course Abrash also mentions some of the uglier hacks.

douche 11y ago
Another very interesting exploration of the Quake source is Fabien Sanglard'[1]. He has done reviews of several of the Id games that have been released. [1] http://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php http://fabiensanglard.net/quakeSource/index.php
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
agumonkey 11y ago
I stumbled upon this book in the college library. I spent the next 3 days in there.

cbd1984 11y ago

These two sentences seem to be in tension: > It is named Handmade Quake thanks to the inspiration of the Handmade Dev community, and following the spirit of their manifesto, we will be starting with a blank Visual Studio project, nothing pre-written at all, and file by file, will turn it into the source code that id Software released to the world in late 1999. > The main goal for this project is to show you how full video games are actually built. Modern AAA games always seem to be written around a pre-written engine. Yes, the engine had to be written at some point, but it was likely a modified form of a pre-existing engine, and so on, iteratively, until you end up with a blank project you're writing in Turbo C or something similar which existed for MS-DOS in the later 1980s, pre-dating Quake. My point is, modern AAA game development isn't clean slate. It's modification of existing code, which is a topic that seems rather under-emphasized in the introductory programming literature. It would be interesting to see some series of videos which were all about making a non-trivial change to some large codebase which has evolved for a few decades.

binarycrusader 11y ago
If you're trying to argue "pre-built" on the basis that they started with some existing code, that defines almost all software, so does not seems like a useful definition. I think most commenters here would generally associate "pre-built" with the licensing of an existing engine available on the open market. Such as Unity, UE4, etc. The very top AAA game studio actually use their own proprietary engines. For example, EA uses the Frostbite Engine in many titles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Frostbite_games Even if I were to accept the strict definition you proposed, many of the upcoming titles on PlayStation 4, such as Dreams and Tomorrow's Children are essentially completely new game engines. They're breaking new ground in rendering and gameplay technology and are as reasonably close to "from scratch" as you're going to get at this point.
frou_dh 11y ago
I don't find the "AAA" nomenclature worthwhile. So-called AAA development can be akin to factory farming and deliver garbage come release day. It's not necessarily doing anything right or wrong. Quake was primarily a GOOD game, and if it must be classified further, a HIGH-END game.

stevebmark 11y ago

"The series will likely be starting right around the beginning of 2016" I really hope you do this. I also suspect you have underestimated the incredible workload this will be, and this shouldn't receive any hype until you start delivering. It will likely take 1-2 days to edit and produce 1 hour of video, and making a full game along with making full, good quality videos, will take, well...good luck!

AlexeyBrin 11y ago

What I find a bit disappointing is that this won't be a remake in the sense of writing the code in modern C99/C11, but rather a copy/paste with comments of the original code according to https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xy110/announcing_handmade_quake/cy90vnl https://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/3xy110/announc... .

sutro 11y ago

I would encourage Philip Buuck to call the series Artisanal Quake.

OliverSadie 11y ago

applause

thyagobr 11y ago

So this is another Handmade series that you need to extrapolate knowledge if you want to follow on Linux, right? Nothing against it, of course, but, since I'm new to game programming, trying to learn SDL as I learned this stuff back in Handmade Hero was a huge pain, I couldn't get past the 14th episode or so.

agentultra 11y ago
The port to Linux will happen later. I forget the exact episode Casey justifies this but basically the problem for game developers is that every other platform other than Window is not a good target platform if you want to stay in business. So he's showing people how to target Windows first and will show us how to port later. Just go look at the Steam hardware survey to find out why.

jokoon 11y ago

I predict that this won't be for the feign of heart.