4 ms·

The description of hers matches my experience pretty closely as a boy in the 1990s. The feeling that something is deeply wrong with you (logically based in bein

by taurath 11y ago

The description of hers matches my experience pretty closely as a boy in the 1990s. The feeling that something is deeply wrong with you (logically based in being bullied in multiple different schools) and that you're terribly different, and seeing >10 psychiatric professionals and having 20 different diagnoses can become a life-defining struggle (and this is for the kids with resources). Its very hard to re-integrate into society, and the comorbidity of depression and anxiety from pretty logical reasoning can make it harder and harder to peel the onion to get at the core of the problem. This girl had supportive parents all the way through, and made it into and eventually graduated Cambridge, and I'll bet the classes were the easy part. Too many aren't so lucky. I'll also be willing to bet that the reseach they've made on women applies to men as well. This quote in general: > Particularly interesting is the unpublished observation that in girls with autism, the social brain seems to communicate with the prefrontal cortex, a brain region that normally engages in reason and planning, and is known to burn through energy. It may be that women with autism keep their social brain engaged, but mediate it through the prefrontal cortex—in a sense, intellectualizing social interactions that would be intuitive for other women. This is exactly it for me. It costs energy to be social, because it really is just like doing math all day. I know the rules, and have done very well in high communication jobs, but its draining in a way that isn't for others.

amelius 11y ago
For me, doing math or programming actually takes far less energy than socializing with new people. I wonder what the mechanism is here. Btw, i'm not autistic.
- taurath 11y ago
  Familliar tasks (including a familiar feeling of uncertainty in math/programming problems) take less energy than meeting unfamiliar people for many people, I would presume.
  - mettamage 11y ago
    Familiarity is one thing. But I think (not certain though) you can also be really predisposed to certain activities. I wouldn't be surprised if they found out that there are certain babies who have subcortical reward structures only lighting up when they do analytical tasks.
    - taurath 11y ago
      We're relatively neurodiverse (as the discussion relating to autism reveals pretty handily) and its almost certainly true that the differences in our hardware make certain things easy and possibly some not as easy.
- SCAQTony 11y ago
  >>I wonder what the mechanism is here.<< Possibly introversion which is NOT a disorder. Perhaps you just enjoy personal time and feel at peace. Psychology today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201108/there-s-more-introversion-you-might-think https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201...
- mettamage 11y ago
  I was also thinking about introversion as another explanation, but introversion isn't about less energy while socializing. It's about less energy because there is too much going on (too much external stimuli).
taurath 11y ago
I should also say that while socializing is draining, around some people it is definitely NOT - people I can be totally unfiltered around do not drain any energy, in fact can give it. It is having to filter my impulses that requires the energy (prefrontal cortex has to work overtime).
usmeteora 11y ago
As a female with Asbergers, I would say this is true. It's also true not in how I socialize but how I respond to socialization. I don't immediately interpret what someone is saying and it's very difficult for me to understand if their body language/facial language nuances are being sarcastic or not. Sometime's people are trying to be nice but I'm worried they are being sarcastic and I'm not interpreting correctly. The reason I've LEARNED to worry about that is because sometimes I thought people were being nice but they were being sarcastic to me and making fun of me to me or in front of their friends. Sometimes, hours later, I'll have to reobserve the interaction in my head, view it from all possible angles, cross check it against how this person typically is/how much I genuinely think they like me or not, and then I can feel pretty confident in about the message I think they were really sending across. But if I don't have alot of previous experiences with this person to cross check, it's like having an incomplete algorithm to make a decision on. Yes, this is an arduous process and it's why alot of people tend to say I keep them at a distance for a while before I get to know them, I need to stay safe and then gradually as I learn more about them open up to them because I can interpret how they are reacting to me correctly. When it comes to having mutual crushes. It's turning out to be a nightmare trying to navigate weather a guy is genuinely into me and even if I'm willing to believe he is how to engage with that, when other girls are masterminds of cutsey mindgames and being flirtacious. The guy I think is into me right now I think has become frustrated because I'm not flirting back with him, but he knows I like being around him, so it's confusing for him and I think hes getting frustrated thinking I'm playing mind games. I need to go talk to him before he goes away entirely but what to say? Gosh I don't know, been debating that for weeks now... In summary, can not only be exhausting it can be emotionally painful and hurtful when the people on the other side facing you don't really understand what it's like in your head. They tend to jump to alot of conclusions that are not even close to the innocent confusion I experience and genuine effort I'm putting in to get to know them.
- taurath 11y ago
  I tend to surround myself with people who are just open an honest for the most part and aren't prone to being super sarcastic, same reason. Some things I just plain don't mind being direct about - "I really like you" when said sincerely seems rare enough in the world that it can be a really good compliment, and its easy for me to say as well. A social group with layers upon layers of snark just isn't much for me. The guy I'm dating now pretty much shares the same mindset and it works great for us - we call each other super dorky because we just tell each other sincere platitudes without a hint of sarcasm, or when we are sarcastic we're hugely over the top about it. I get what you mean about having to go back over and over. The social anxiety it causes when people won't be relatively direct can really hurt. Best bet for me was to keep looking for people who are relatively like me (I found a group super early on in the furry fandom - there's a VERY high percentage of spectrum folks there and some of the smartest kindest best people I've ever met come from it (and its frankly one of the best professional networks to have in tech - they're everywhere)). I'd recommend checking out a subculture of some sort that you're interested in.

by taurath 11y ago

amelius 11y ago

For me, doing math or programming actually takes far less energy than socializing with new people. I wonder what the mechanism is here. Btw, i'm not autistic.

taurath 11y ago
Familliar tasks (including a familiar feeling of uncertainty in math/programming problems) take less energy than meeting unfamiliar people for many people, I would presume.
- mettamage 11y ago
  Familiarity is one thing. But I think (not certain though) you can also be really predisposed to certain activities. I wouldn't be surprised if they found out that there are certain babies who have subcortical reward structures only lighting up when they do analytical tasks.
  - taurath 11y ago
    We're relatively neurodiverse (as the discussion relating to autism reveals pretty handily) and its almost certainly true that the differences in our hardware make certain things easy and possibly some not as easy.
SCAQTony 11y ago
>>I wonder what the mechanism is here.<< Possibly introversion which is NOT a disorder. Perhaps you just enjoy personal time and feel at peace. Psychology today: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201108/there-s-more-introversion-you-might-think https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fulfillment-any-age/201...
mettamage 11y ago
I was also thinking about introversion as another explanation, but introversion isn't about less energy while socializing. It's about less energy because there is too much going on (too much external stimuli).

taurath 11y ago

I should also say that while socializing is draining, around some people it is definitely NOT - people I can be totally unfiltered around do not drain any energy, in fact can give it. It is having to filter my impulses that requires the energy (prefrontal cortex has to work overtime).

usmeteora 11y ago

As a female with Asbergers, I would say this is true. It's also true not in how I socialize but how I respond to socialization. I don't immediately interpret what someone is saying and it's very difficult for me to understand if their body language/facial language nuances are being sarcastic or not. Sometime's people are trying to be nice but I'm worried they are being sarcastic and I'm not interpreting correctly. The reason I've LEARNED to worry about that is because sometimes I thought people were being nice but they were being sarcastic to me and making fun of me to me or in front of their friends. Sometimes, hours later, I'll have to reobserve the interaction in my head, view it from all possible angles, cross check it against how this person typically is/how much I genuinely think they like me or not, and then I can feel pretty confident in about the message I think they were really sending across. But if I don't have alot of previous experiences with this person to cross check, it's like having an incomplete algorithm to make a decision on. Yes, this is an arduous process and it's why alot of people tend to say I keep them at a distance for a while before I get to know them, I need to stay safe and then gradually as I learn more about them open up to them because I can interpret how they are reacting to me correctly. When it comes to having mutual crushes. It's turning out to be a nightmare trying to navigate weather a guy is genuinely into me and even if I'm willing to believe he is how to engage with that, when other girls are masterminds of cutsey mindgames and being flirtacious. The guy I think is into me right now I think has become frustrated because I'm not flirting back with him, but he knows I like being around him, so it's confusing for him and I think hes getting frustrated thinking I'm playing mind games. I need to go talk to him before he goes away entirely but what to say? Gosh I don't know, been debating that for weeks now... In summary, can not only be exhausting it can be emotionally painful and hurtful when the people on the other side facing you don't really understand what it's like in your head. They tend to jump to alot of conclusions that are not even close to the innocent confusion I experience and genuine effort I'm putting in to get to know them.

taurath 11y ago
I tend to surround myself with people who are just open an honest for the most part and aren't prone to being super sarcastic, same reason. Some things I just plain don't mind being direct about - "I really like you" when said sincerely seems rare enough in the world that it can be a really good compliment, and its easy for me to say as well. A social group with layers upon layers of snark just isn't much for me. The guy I'm dating now pretty much shares the same mindset and it works great for us - we call each other super dorky because we just tell each other sincere platitudes without a hint of sarcasm, or when we are sarcastic we're hugely over the top about it. I get what you mean about having to go back over and over. The social anxiety it causes when people won't be relatively direct can really hurt. Best bet for me was to keep looking for people who are relatively like me (I found a group super early on in the furry fandom - there's a VERY high percentage of spectrum folks there and some of the smartest kindest best people I've ever met come from it (and its frankly one of the best professional networks to have in tech - they're everywhere)). I'd recommend checking out a subculture of some sort that you're interested in.