5 ms·

Could the Scandinavian countries be any more perfect? In a world full of strife, and countries fighting over pieces of land, Norway/Sweden sound like a fairytal

Could the Scandinavian countries be any more perfect? In a world full of strife, and countries fighting over pieces of land, Norway/Sweden sound like a fairytale.

sheraz 11y ago
Hardly perfect. 1. This is a story about Norway gifting Finland a bit of land as a celebration of Finland's full declaration of independence (I think from Russia). Sweden does not factor into it. 2. Scandinavian countries are also inhabited by humans, which means there are all the same "isms" and problems like everywhere else. It is just distributed a little differently.
- Numberwang 11y ago
  Im sitting on the station in Malmö after being abroad for a year. It's perfect.
  - sheraz 11y ago
    I'd like to think there is sarcasm in this, but since you forgot to end it /sarcasm, I'll bite.... - Bombings and grenades this summer - https://www.rt.com/news/310757-sweden-malmo-blasts-crime/ - A long history of Anti-semitism (not unique to Sweden) - Anti-Muslim hate-crime (again, not unique to Sweden) - Anti-Roma (Gypsy) hate-crime - (again...you get the point) Malmö is one of the many powder kegs across Europe. You have entire neighborhoods where Fire, emergency, and law enforcement will not go ("no-go zones") [1] Sweden is not perfect. Malmo is no perfect. No place is perfect. To say so is a lie, or you have your head in the sand. [1] - http://swedenreport.org/2014/10/29/swedish-police-55-official-no-go-zones/ http://swedenreport.org/2014/10/29/swedish-police-55-officia...
    - kryptiskt 11y ago
      There most certainly is no neighborhood in Malmö where law enforcement won't go. There was a time when firefighters wanted to be escorted by police when going to Rosengård because they were harassed.
      - sheraz 11y ago
        Harassment suggests they were heckled the way one might heckle at sports games. Emergency services were attacked with stones and bottles. ATTACKED.
    - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
      Looking at that person's other posts, they're clearly a nutball.
    - ZoF 11y ago
      I'm curious why you actually thought he meant it was _literally_ perfect? It was clearly meant as an idiomatic expression. Why not mention rapes, murders and crimes that aren't targeting a specific group? They're all valid reasons for you to object to the statement that some place is literally perfect. Your objection is entirely out touch with the parent posts intended meaning.
      - sheraz 11y ago
        Hence, my comment about sarcasm. Just what do you think was the intended meaning when someone calls a city perfect?
        ZoF 11y ago
        About the same meaning I would derive from a native of anywhere saying their home-town/city/country is 'amazing/perfect/etc...' That they're(almost always) expressing a sentiment not making a statement of fact. Can you name many situations where 'perfect' is actually used literally? That cake was perfect? I think not; you're completely ignoring the non-locally-sourced flour. I'm not trying to say your point isn't valid it just seemed out of place and tangentially related to the topic.
        sheraz 11y ago
        Point taken. And agreed -- this thread is way off from Norway handing Finland a mountain... Have an upvote form me :-)
- scrollaway 11y ago
  I've lived and travelled to many places across Europe. Most recently I lived in Stockholm for a year and it was damn near perfect. By far the best place I've ever stayed at. Of course it has problems. Problems are not something you can get rid of, they are just a manifestation of the worst things in your environment (There is always a "worst" of everything, even an utopia). Sweden's problems are almost all the definition of "first world". I'm in Athens now and I miss that country.
  - sheraz 11y ago
    Again, here we are with that word, "perfect." Sorry, but to say that Sweden's problems are largely "first world" is incredibly naive. Sweden is really struggling to find the resources to adequately deal with accepting, feeding, and housing all the refugees streaming in. Hardly a frist-world problem. Sweden's security services are under immense pressure to identify, monitor, and stop any terror threats from within, and do it under strict privacy laws. Hardly a first-world problem. Sweden's social welfare system cannot possible sustain all of the support given internally and externally to her borders. It was never designed to accomodate and support thousands of refugees who cannot immediately (or ever) pay back into the system.
    - littletimmy 11y ago
      The refugee problem seems external, rather than internal. Kudos to Sweden that they are being a humane country and offering refugees help, even if it comes at a slight personal cost to the Swedish people. I wish all countries were so kind.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - sheraz 11y ago
        Sure, refugees are an external problem right up until they show up on your doorstep, and you are then legally obligated to coordinate and provide housing, healthcare, and assistance on an unprecedented scale that Sweden has never seen. And do all of this under the direction of Sweden's track record of failed integration policies [1] Easy-peasy indeed... [1] - http://www.thelocal.se/20090923/22244 http://www.thelocal.se/20090923/22244
- maus42 11y ago
  >Norway gifting *a bunch of Norwegians campaigning for It's a nice gesture, but thus far the official Norway has at least not embraced the idea.
derptacious 11y ago
Ya, hearing about scandinavia in the news is an interesting phenomena. I'm from America and I'm living in Scandinavia for the second time... While things seem to work pretty well, it's definitely nothing like I perceived from reading about it in the news. My guess is the difference is caused by equality. While I was able to live a good life in several US cities, living a decent life in scandinavia is just available for a larger percentage of the population due to equality.
- hack_edu 11y ago
  > living a decent life in scandinavia is just available for a larger percentage of the population due to equality. To put it another way, its one of the last industrialized nations able to hold onto a homogeneous culture and rooted in a shared ethnicity. A lack of immigration or colonial baggage, combined with culture deeply rooted in a "don't stand out too much" mentality, makes governance and social welfare quite easy. Its an impenetrable boundary for immigrants and effectively creates a whole new social class; reactionary political movements are thriving in ways not seen since German occupation. It doesn't hurt that there are only a few million people, all living very close by. This system will slowly fall apart over the next quarter century as Sweden continues to globalize in order to maintain population and economic growth. Sweden and the Nordic countries are an exception to the rule of social society and, though we can try to mimic some of their successes, not an example to model off of. Its also worth noting that their government systematically props up the labor market, especially professional classes. They employ massive amounts of engineers and scientists, working on projects that never see the light of day. A country free education combined with a comparatively small business culture needs a blow-off valve in order to maintain quality of life. The European social states are a product of their place and time. Huge parts of developed Western Europe were completely destroyed during WWII, leaving much of their populations homeless and destitute with little economic capital. These countries had no choice but to guarantee extensive social services. This was economically possible due to massive stimulus by the Marshall Plan and UN during the post-war reconstruction years.
  - littletimmy 11y ago
    What's wrong with the government propping up labor market? It sounds wonderful. The state takes money from for-profit enterprise and uses it to employ scientists and engineers for the greater good. What could be better?
patrickaljord 11y ago
The Swedish government has a monopoly on the sell of alcohol, price is two to three times more expensive than the rest of Europe and you are forced to buy from State owned supermarkets which closes around 3pm on Saturdays and all day on Sunday. If this kind of socialism is a fairy tale for you, you can read more about it here: http://hejsweden.com/en/the-swedes-and-alcohol-about-drinking-in-sweden/ http://hejsweden.com/en/the-swedes-and-alcohol-about-drinkin...
- alkonaut 11y ago
  And while it's ridiculous that you can't buy cold beer stronger than 3.5% by volume, and can't do it on a Sunday, I still wouldn't switch to any of the system in any country I have lived in (E.g. Australia, UK). I wouldn't mind the prices of beer in a bar to be more reasonable but what can you do. What's expensive in .se is the alcohol, not the alcholic products. That makes the price of some cheap products very high, most notably gin/vodka etc, which carry a price that may be 3x higher than elsewhere (Worth noting of course is that even at these prices they aren't nearly paying their own damages). That is only half the story though, products like decent wine and single malt whisky is actually very well priced, and often cheaper than in their respecive countries of origin. In the uk a crap bottle of wine is £3, in sweden twice that. A good bootle of wine in the uk is £20 and can be half that in Sweden. Prices are very compressed, which makes it an excellent place to be drinking decent stuff. I know you were likely sort of tounge-in-cheek about the alcohol issue, but really there are lots of aspects that are way worse. Just take the fact that the day (if you can even call it that) in Sweden today was 5 hours long... That will drive you nuts no matter what the cost of booze is :D
- sheraz 11y ago
  The only correct item here is about Systembolaget -- the state-run liquor store. Everything else is outright wrong. Prices are more, but not 2x or 3x more. And on many mid-priced wines the prices are lower due to buying power. The major chains are either private, partnerships, or Franchise models -- ICA, Lidl (German-owned), Hemkop (Owned by AxFoods), Willys, etc. Also, though grocery stores are not 24/7, most are open 7 days a week up to 10 or 11pm.
- semi-extrinsic 11y ago
petke 11y ago
The Nordics only seems perfect from the outside. Us that live here sometimes wonder why people ever thought it was a good idea to settle here. The winters are too long and dark. The summers are too short and cold. The people are too shy. We dont talk to strangers or neighbours. We dream of some fairytale land where the sun always shines and people talk to strangers. I think there is such a place somewhere in South America. We would trade the highest mountain for a piece of such a place.
- zorkos 11y ago
  Writing from Argentina here. As we happen to have the tallest peak in the Western hemisphere (Aconcagua, 6960m), on behalf of my country I must politely decline your offer.
- markdown 11y ago
  Fiji here. Happy to trade an island or two for a glass or two of Ekofisk crude.
- laut 11y ago
  I'm a Dane sitting in such a place right now. It is summer down here. And my computer is plugged into a fibre optic internet connection. No place is perfect, but right now I am not complaining.

Could the Scandinavian countries be any more perfect? In a world full of strife, and countries fighting over pieces of land, Norway/Sweden sound like a fairytale.

sheraz 11y ago

Hardly perfect. 1. This is a story about Norway gifting Finland a bit of land as a celebration of Finland's full declaration of independence (I think from Russia). Sweden does not factor into it. 2. Scandinavian countries are also inhabited by humans, which means there are all the same "isms" and problems like everywhere else. It is just distributed a little differently.

Numberwang 11y ago
Im sitting on the station in Malmö after being abroad for a year. It's perfect.
- sheraz 11y ago
  I'd like to think there is sarcasm in this, but since you forgot to end it /sarcasm, I'll bite.... - Bombings and grenades this summer - https://www.rt.com/news/310757-sweden-malmo-blasts-crime/ - A long history of Anti-semitism (not unique to Sweden) - Anti-Muslim hate-crime (again, not unique to Sweden) - Anti-Roma (Gypsy) hate-crime - (again...you get the point) Malmö is one of the many powder kegs across Europe. You have entire neighborhoods where Fire, emergency, and law enforcement will not go ("no-go zones") [1] Sweden is not perfect. Malmo is no perfect. No place is perfect. To say so is a lie, or you have your head in the sand. [1] - http://swedenreport.org/2014/10/29/swedish-police-55-official-no-go-zones/ http://swedenreport.org/2014/10/29/swedish-police-55-officia...
  - kryptiskt 11y ago
    There most certainly is no neighborhood in Malmö where law enforcement won't go. There was a time when firefighters wanted to be escorted by police when going to Rosengård because they were harassed.
    - sheraz 11y ago
      Harassment suggests they were heckled the way one might heckle at sports games. Emergency services were attacked with stones and bottles. ATTACKED.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
    Looking at that person's other posts, they're clearly a nutball.
  - ZoF 11y ago
    I'm curious why you actually thought he meant it was _literally_ perfect? It was clearly meant as an idiomatic expression. Why not mention rapes, murders and crimes that aren't targeting a specific group? They're all valid reasons for you to object to the statement that some place is literally perfect. Your objection is entirely out touch with the parent posts intended meaning.
    - sheraz 11y ago
      Hence, my comment about sarcasm. Just what do you think was the intended meaning when someone calls a city perfect?
      - ZoF 11y ago
        About the same meaning I would derive from a native of anywhere saying their home-town/city/country is 'amazing/perfect/etc...' That they're(almost always) expressing a sentiment not making a statement of fact. Can you name many situations where 'perfect' is actually used literally? That cake was perfect? I think not; you're completely ignoring the non-locally-sourced flour. I'm not trying to say your point isn't valid it just seemed out of place and tangentially related to the topic.
        sheraz 11y ago
        Point taken. And agreed -- this thread is way off from Norway handing Finland a mountain... Have an upvote form me :-)
scrollaway 11y ago
I've lived and travelled to many places across Europe. Most recently I lived in Stockholm for a year and it was damn near perfect. By far the best place I've ever stayed at. Of course it has problems. Problems are not something you can get rid of, they are just a manifestation of the worst things in your environment (There is always a "worst" of everything, even an utopia). Sweden's problems are almost all the definition of "first world". I'm in Athens now and I miss that country.
- sheraz 11y ago
  Again, here we are with that word, "perfect." Sorry, but to say that Sweden's problems are largely "first world" is incredibly naive. Sweden is really struggling to find the resources to adequately deal with accepting, feeding, and housing all the refugees streaming in. Hardly a frist-world problem. Sweden's security services are under immense pressure to identify, monitor, and stop any terror threats from within, and do it under strict privacy laws. Hardly a first-world problem. Sweden's social welfare system cannot possible sustain all of the support given internally and externally to her borders. It was never designed to accomodate and support thousands of refugees who cannot immediately (or ever) pay back into the system.
  - littletimmy 11y ago
    The refugee problem seems external, rather than internal. Kudos to Sweden that they are being a humane country and offering refugees help, even if it comes at a slight personal cost to the Swedish people. I wish all countries were so kind.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
    - sheraz 11y ago
      Sure, refugees are an external problem right up until they show up on your doorstep, and you are then legally obligated to coordinate and provide housing, healthcare, and assistance on an unprecedented scale that Sweden has never seen. And do all of this under the direction of Sweden's track record of failed integration policies [1] Easy-peasy indeed... [1] - http://www.thelocal.se/20090923/22244 http://www.thelocal.se/20090923/22244
maus42 11y ago
>Norway gifting *a bunch of Norwegians campaigning for It's a nice gesture, but thus far the official Norway has at least not embraced the idea.

derptacious 11y ago

Ya, hearing about scandinavia in the news is an interesting phenomena. I'm from America and I'm living in Scandinavia for the second time... While things seem to work pretty well, it's definitely nothing like I perceived from reading about it in the news. My guess is the difference is caused by equality. While I was able to live a good life in several US cities, living a decent life in scandinavia is just available for a larger percentage of the population due to equality.

hack_edu 11y ago
> living a decent life in scandinavia is just available for a larger percentage of the population due to equality. To put it another way, its one of the last industrialized nations able to hold onto a homogeneous culture and rooted in a shared ethnicity. A lack of immigration or colonial baggage, combined with culture deeply rooted in a "don't stand out too much" mentality, makes governance and social welfare quite easy. Its an impenetrable boundary for immigrants and effectively creates a whole new social class; reactionary political movements are thriving in ways not seen since German occupation. It doesn't hurt that there are only a few million people, all living very close by. This system will slowly fall apart over the next quarter century as Sweden continues to globalize in order to maintain population and economic growth. Sweden and the Nordic countries are an exception to the rule of social society and, though we can try to mimic some of their successes, not an example to model off of. Its also worth noting that their government systematically props up the labor market, especially professional classes. They employ massive amounts of engineers and scientists, working on projects that never see the light of day. A country free education combined with a comparatively small business culture needs a blow-off valve in order to maintain quality of life. The European social states are a product of their place and time. Huge parts of developed Western Europe were completely destroyed during WWII, leaving much of their populations homeless and destitute with little economic capital. These countries had no choice but to guarantee extensive social services. This was economically possible due to massive stimulus by the Marshall Plan and UN during the post-war reconstruction years.
- littletimmy 11y ago
  What's wrong with the government propping up labor market? It sounds wonderful. The state takes money from for-profit enterprise and uses it to employ scientists and engineers for the greater good. What could be better?

patrickaljord 11y ago

The Swedish government has a monopoly on the sell of alcohol, price is two to three times more expensive than the rest of Europe and you are forced to buy from State owned supermarkets which closes around 3pm on Saturdays and all day on Sunday. If this kind of socialism is a fairy tale for you, you can read more about it here: http://hejsweden.com/en/the-swedes-and-alcohol-about-drinking-in-sweden/ http://hejsweden.com/en/the-swedes-and-alcohol-about-drinkin...

alkonaut 11y ago
And while it's ridiculous that you can't buy cold beer stronger than 3.5% by volume, and can't do it on a Sunday, I still wouldn't switch to any of the system in any country I have lived in (E.g. Australia, UK). I wouldn't mind the prices of beer in a bar to be more reasonable but what can you do. What's expensive in .se is the alcohol, not the alcholic products. That makes the price of some cheap products very high, most notably gin/vodka etc, which carry a price that may be 3x higher than elsewhere (Worth noting of course is that even at these prices they aren't nearly paying their own damages). That is only half the story though, products like decent wine and single malt whisky is actually very well priced, and often cheaper than in their respecive countries of origin. In the uk a crap bottle of wine is £3, in sweden twice that. A good bootle of wine in the uk is £20 and can be half that in Sweden. Prices are very compressed, which makes it an excellent place to be drinking decent stuff. I know you were likely sort of tounge-in-cheek about the alcohol issue, but really there are lots of aspects that are way worse. Just take the fact that the day (if you can even call it that) in Sweden today was 5 hours long... That will drive you nuts no matter what the cost of booze is :D
sheraz 11y ago
The only correct item here is about Systembolaget -- the state-run liquor store. Everything else is outright wrong. Prices are more, but not 2x or 3x more. And on many mid-priced wines the prices are lower due to buying power. The major chains are either private, partnerships, or Franchise models -- ICA, Lidl (German-owned), Hemkop (Owned by AxFoods), Willys, etc. Also, though grocery stores are not 24/7, most are open 7 days a week up to 10 or 11pm.
semi-extrinsic 11y ago

petke 11y ago

The Nordics only seems perfect from the outside. Us that live here sometimes wonder why people ever thought it was a good idea to settle here. The winters are too long and dark. The summers are too short and cold. The people are too shy. We dont talk to strangers or neighbours. We dream of some fairytale land where the sun always shines and people talk to strangers. I think there is such a place somewhere in South America. We would trade the highest mountain for a piece of such a place.

zorkos 11y ago
Writing from Argentina here. As we happen to have the tallest peak in the Western hemisphere (Aconcagua, 6960m), on behalf of my country I must politely decline your offer.
markdown 11y ago
Fiji here. Happy to trade an island or two for a glass or two of Ekofisk crude.
laut 11y ago
I'm a Dane sitting in such a place right now. It is summer down here. And my computer is plugged into a fibre optic internet connection. No place is perfect, but right now I am not complaining.