5 ms·

This is heartening news; if not a cure, at least it suggests a promising avenue for future research into this terrible condition. This LiveScience[1] article i

This is heartening news; if not a cure, at least it suggests a promising avenue for future research into this terrible condition. This LiveScience[1] article is an easily read summary that also mentions a critique of the approach. Given the unfortunate history[2][3] of falsified Korean scientific research, it would be prudent to withhold judgment until these results have been reproduced in other labs around the world. 1. http://www.livescience.com/53019-epps-chemical-washes-away-alzheimers-plaque.html http://www.livescience.com/53019-epps-chemical-washes-away-a... 2. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/world/asia/27clone.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/27/world/asia/27clone.html?_r... 3. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/07/01/researcher-who-spiked-rabbit-blood-to-fake-hiv-vaccine-results-slapped-with-rare-prison-sentence/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/0...

decisiveness 11y ago
This seems like a pretty unfair generalization of Koreans. Assuming all scientists have the same shameful characteristics of a few doesn't seem very scientific, does it?
- irishloop 11y ago
  I think it's more of a generalization of the Korean scientific community, of which most Koreans are not a part.
  - celticninja 11y ago
    It is an unfair generalisation in both cases. The wiki list of scientific fraud examples is very heavy on US examples.
    - blisterpeanuts 11y ago
      What's the ratio of U.S. scientists to Korean scientists? 10:1 or so? I would expect to see 10x as many fraud cases in the U.S. But there have been some doozies in Korean science, especially the stem cell guy who really embarrassed and shamed his country with the extent of deception he practiced. Brilliant, but also crazy.
      - celticninja 11y ago
        where is that ratio pulled from? your ass? My point is that it was a generalization against korean scientists and a few instances is not representative of an entire group. Your point seems to be that the korean instances are somehow higher profile, but if that was the case then UK research science would be the worst because the vaccine/autism scandal has probably had the most far reaching after effects and infamy.
        4ad 11y ago
        http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+usa+%2F+population+of+south+korea http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+usa+%2F+p...
        blisterpeanuts 11y ago
        Approximately 10x as many scientific documents produced in the U.S. as in S. Korea.[1] Ratio of U.S. to ROK scientists is about 6:1.[2] OK, so # of scientists isn't 10:1. But in terms of scientific activity, the U.S. is far and away more productive. 1. http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php 2. http://chartsbin.com/view/1124 http://chartsbin.com/view/1124
        celticninja 11y ago
        And I would still call it an unfair generalisation. It's almost as if you are saying that some fraud is to be expected and is therefore fine when actually any fraud is wrong.
electic 11y ago
Really? You are going to make a blanket statement about the entire Korean research community's work? [1][2][3][4][5][....] [1] http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-cancer-researcher-engaged-in-misconduct-federal-officials-say/article_dcf0c65a-a034-11e5-81ae-f39ccd05f86d.html http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-ca... [2] http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-former-duke-professor-anil-potti-engaged-in-research/article_93929640-93ce-11e5-8f22-c7712ff43e16.html http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-fo... [3] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science-health/drugmaker-kaketsuken-raided-decades-alleged-faked-records-illegal-additives/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science... [4] http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-have-falsified-data-ask-court-to-review-claims-1.2491714 http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-... [5] http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/17/c_134632381.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/17/c_134632381.htm
- wyager 11y ago
  This is one of the realities of scientific publishing. Certain countries (like China and Korea) churn or large quantities of falsified research.
  - throwaway6969 11y ago
    I wish I could vote this down. What does this statement really add except reiterate what was said previously?
Kapow 11y ago
Wow, talk about cherry-picking. And those both resulted in jail time. How about the "unfortunate history" of falsified research in other countries? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#Notable_individual_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#Notable_... Do you feel the same way about US scientific research?
- muddyrivers 11y ago
  If the research misconducts are from Japan, China and South Korean, they would immediately become the top news in the major media in USA. If they are from Western countries, well, most of them didn't even get mentioned in the same media. That is how unbiased these media are. BTW, I am not even talking about Fox News and alike. NYT, you are in the list. The journalistic integrity of your articles has been dropping like a rock.
  - nonbel 11y ago
    Here is what happened when someone was believed to have committed scientific fraud in the US: http://retractionwatch.com/2015/11/07/its-official-anil-potti-faked-data-say-feds/ http://retractionwatch.com/2015/11/07/its-official-anil-pott...
  - kiba 11y ago
    It seemed like everybody's journalistic integrity was dropping like a rock.
api 11y ago
If it's a slow thing that happens with aging (as some research suggests) then this might also be an anti-aging treatment to a small extent in that it might restore a little bit of the health of a younger brain.
wobbleblob 11y ago
Ever since a family member was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I've been paying attention to reports like these. Every other year, there is a paper about a major breakthrough, and surely a cure should be just around the corner any time now. Every few years there is a paper that claims that we now finally know what causes the disease, and every time it's something different, and every time you never hear of a followup. It's about 3 decades later now, and as far as I can tell, there is still no actual progress in the way of treatment. An alzheimer's diagnosis still means the same as it did in the 80's or in the 60's for that matter. About this cure that is just around the corner. It came too late for my grandparents generation, it came too late for my parents' generation, it came too late for my generation, I wouldn't be surprised if it came too late for my children's generation. I don't believe in it any more.
- austinjp 11y ago
  Yup, I feel that.
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  When you realize that pretty much every disease and condition has similar papers written about it, you start to realize that the way we do medical research is pretty messed up. Keep in mind that they still haven't really decided whether salt is bad for you or not, or what the real effects of dietary cholesterol are. Widespread conditions that should be much easier to research and understand than Alzheimer's are still very controversial.
  - CWuestefeld 11y ago
    you start to realize that the way we do medical research is pretty messed up. The way the media reports on research (not just medical) is really messed up.
    - CamperBob2 11y ago
      Both are true, IMHO, again returning to the dietary salt/cholesterol example. It is easy to point to peer-reviewed literature that backs up any point of view you want to take. The scientific community needs to get its own act together before criticizing the popular media. Few other scientific disciplines are less reliable than medical research, and even fewer are more important.

decisiveness 11y ago

This seems like a pretty unfair generalization of Koreans. Assuming all scientists have the same shameful characteristics of a few doesn't seem very scientific, does it?

irishloop 11y ago
I think it's more of a generalization of the Korean scientific community, of which most Koreans are not a part.
- celticninja 11y ago
  It is an unfair generalisation in both cases. The wiki list of scientific fraud examples is very heavy on US examples.
  - blisterpeanuts 11y ago
    What's the ratio of U.S. scientists to Korean scientists? 10:1 or so? I would expect to see 10x as many fraud cases in the U.S. But there have been some doozies in Korean science, especially the stem cell guy who really embarrassed and shamed his country with the extent of deception he practiced. Brilliant, but also crazy.
    - celticninja 11y ago
      where is that ratio pulled from? your ass? My point is that it was a generalization against korean scientists and a few instances is not representative of an entire group. Your point seems to be that the korean instances are somehow higher profile, but if that was the case then UK research science would be the worst because the vaccine/autism scandal has probably had the most far reaching after effects and infamy.
      - 4ad 11y ago
        http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+usa+%2F+population+of+south+korea http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+usa+%2F+p...
      - blisterpeanuts 11y ago
        Approximately 10x as many scientific documents produced in the U.S. as in S. Korea.[1] Ratio of U.S. to ROK scientists is about 6:1.[2] OK, so # of scientists isn't 10:1. But in terms of scientific activity, the U.S. is far and away more productive. 1. http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php http://www.scimagojr.com/countryrank.php 2. http://chartsbin.com/view/1124 http://chartsbin.com/view/1124
        celticninja 11y ago
        And I would still call it an unfair generalisation. It's almost as if you are saying that some fraud is to be expected and is therefore fine when actually any fraud is wrong.

electic 11y ago

Really? You are going to make a blanket statement about the entire Korean research community's work? [1][2][3][4][5][....] [1] http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-cancer-researcher-engaged-in-misconduct-federal-officials-say/article_dcf0c65a-a034-11e5-81ae-f39ccd05f86d.html http://www.dailyprogress.com/lifestyles/health/former-vcu-ca... [2] http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-former-duke-professor-anil-potti-engaged-in-research/article_93929640-93ce-11e5-8f22-c7712ff43e16.html http://www.indiawest.com/news/global_indian/probe-reveals-fo... [3] http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science-health/drugmaker-kaketsuken-raided-decades-alleged-faked-records-illegal-additives/ http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/12/03/national/science... [4] http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-have-falsified-data-ask-court-to-review-claims-1.2491714 http://www.ctvnews.ca/health/toronto-researchers-alleged-to-... [5] http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/17/c_134632381.htm http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2015-09/17/c_134632381.htm

wyager 11y ago
This is one of the realities of scientific publishing. Certain countries (like China and Korea) churn or large quantities of falsified research.
- throwaway6969 11y ago
  I wish I could vote this down. What does this statement really add except reiterate what was said previously?

Kapow 11y ago

Wow, talk about cherry-picking. And those both resulted in jail time. How about the "unfortunate history" of falsified research in other countries? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#Notable_individual_cases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_misconduct#Notable_... Do you feel the same way about US scientific research?

muddyrivers 11y ago
If the research misconducts are from Japan, China and South Korean, they would immediately become the top news in the major media in USA. If they are from Western countries, well, most of them didn't even get mentioned in the same media. That is how unbiased these media are. BTW, I am not even talking about Fox News and alike. NYT, you are in the list. The journalistic integrity of your articles has been dropping like a rock.
- nonbel 11y ago
  Here is what happened when someone was believed to have committed scientific fraud in the US: http://retractionwatch.com/2015/11/07/its-official-anil-potti-faked-data-say-feds/ http://retractionwatch.com/2015/11/07/its-official-anil-pott...
- kiba 11y ago
  It seemed like everybody's journalistic integrity was dropping like a rock.

api 11y ago

If it's a slow thing that happens with aging (as some research suggests) then this might also be an anti-aging treatment to a small extent in that it might restore a little bit of the health of a younger brain.

wobbleblob 11y ago

Ever since a family member was diagnosed with Alzheimer's, I've been paying attention to reports like these. Every other year, there is a paper about a major breakthrough, and surely a cure should be just around the corner any time now. Every few years there is a paper that claims that we now finally know what causes the disease, and every time it's something different, and every time you never hear of a followup. It's about 3 decades later now, and as far as I can tell, there is still no actual progress in the way of treatment. An alzheimer's diagnosis still means the same as it did in the 80's or in the 60's for that matter. About this cure that is just around the corner. It came too late for my grandparents generation, it came too late for my parents' generation, it came too late for my generation, I wouldn't be surprised if it came too late for my children's generation. I don't believe in it any more.

austinjp 11y ago
Yup, I feel that.
CamperBob2 11y ago
When you realize that pretty much every disease and condition has similar papers written about it, you start to realize that the way we do medical research is pretty messed up. Keep in mind that they still haven't really decided whether salt is bad for you or not, or what the real effects of dietary cholesterol are. Widespread conditions that should be much easier to research and understand than Alzheimer's are still very controversial.
- CWuestefeld 11y ago
  you start to realize that the way we do medical research is pretty messed up. The way the media reports on research (not just medical) is really messed up.
  - CamperBob2 11y ago
    Both are true, IMHO, again returning to the dietary salt/cholesterol example. It is easy to point to peer-reviewed literature that backs up any point of view you want to take. The scientific community needs to get its own act together before criticizing the popular media. Few other scientific disciplines are less reliable than medical research, and even fewer are more important.