3 ms·

I agree to some extent, but not completely. Some day population-wide studies fishing for a p value below a certain threshold will be looked at with the same dis

by api 11y ago

I agree to some extent, but not completely. Some day population-wide studies fishing for a p value below a certain threshold will be looked at with the same disdain that we look at homeopathy. "They actually believed you could do studies across genetically diverse populations like that?!?! wow! Didn't they understand that everyone's metabolism is different?" Throw in a bit of pharma companies funding their own studies and I don't think the situation is as black and white as you say. Preachy overconfidence in the clear superiority of enlightened scientific medicine actually bolsters public support for alt.med as a reactionary movement.

bunderbunder 11y ago
I hate being the guy to call fallacy,* but this reminds me of the Nirvana fallacy here. You're not comparing the level of scientific rigor in mainstream medicine to the level of scientific rigor in alternative medicine. You're comparing it to the level of scientific rigor that we wish existed in a perfect world. Are you also willing to measure alternative medicine against the same standard so that they can be compared on an equal footing? P-value fishing is hardly the exclusive province of mainstream medicine. And in the "funding their own studies" department the most notable difference between mainstream pharma and alt med is that the mainstream pharma companies are legally required to disclose this fact (and preregister their studies in order to discourage fishing, too), while in alt med it's standard practice to use cute little financial engineering tricks to try and hide where the funding came from. * But I don't hate lying on occasion.
- api 11y ago
  I'm pointing out that as a social movement alt.med is driven in part by a mismatch between the real success and reliability of scientific medicine vs. the claims made by its authorities. Is fat good for your or bad for you this week?
  - bunderbunder 11y ago
    Pointing out that the core of the movement consists of throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't really an effective defense.

by api 11y ago

bunderbunder 11y ago

I hate being the guy to call fallacy,* but this reminds me of the Nirvana fallacy here. You're not comparing the level of scientific rigor in mainstream medicine to the level of scientific rigor in alternative medicine. You're comparing it to the level of scientific rigor that we wish existed in a perfect world. Are you also willing to measure alternative medicine against the same standard so that they can be compared on an equal footing? P-value fishing is hardly the exclusive province of mainstream medicine. And in the "funding their own studies" department the most notable difference between mainstream pharma and alt med is that the mainstream pharma companies are legally required to disclose this fact (and preregister their studies in order to discourage fishing, too), while in alt med it's standard practice to use cute little financial engineering tricks to try and hide where the funding came from. * But I don't hate lying on occasion.

api 11y ago
I'm pointing out that as a social movement alt.med is driven in part by a mismatch between the real success and reliability of scientific medicine vs. the claims made by its authorities. Is fat good for your or bad for you this week?
- bunderbunder 11y ago
  Pointing out that the core of the movement consists of throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn't really an effective defense.