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>I'm at a loss for words: Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm
by Lawtonfogle 11y ago
>I'm at a loss for words:
Why are you are a loss for words? This doesn't look significantly different from the town I grew up in (well near). I feel like I'm missing something.
- ryanSrich 11y agoYeah I agree. You'll see similar scenes in the rust belt. I grew up in Upstate NY and this could easily be images from parts of Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, etc.
- vanderZwan 11y agoYou missed the > As a Swede ... part
- flubert 11y agohttps://www.google.com/#q=swedish+ghetto https://www.google.com/#q=swedish+ghetto
- scott_karana 11y agoIn https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92 https://goo.gl/maps/pAQEyZSAEw92, the first one I clicked, there is decay and overgrowth everywhere. The death of the city's economy is completely evident in that view alone...
- kbenson 11y agoBecause a building burned down? It would be nice if they fenced it off, so it shows a lack of resources, but I'm not sure that view really indicates what you say it does.
- munificent 11y agoNot just that it burned down. Note that there are weeds growing up the side of the charred wall. It burned down and then nothing was done about it for months.
- kbenson 11y agoBesides extra fencing, what should have been done? It's obvious they aren't hurting for space there, so there's not necessarily a great reason to rebuild in that spot even if the owner wanted to rebuild. It's also entirely possibly it was a derelict building, and may not really be owned by anyone. None of these speak well for the economy in the area, but they definitely don't make the "death of the city's economy is completely evident". In some areas, work that needs to be done by the town or county may take a while. Sometimes that's the nature of living in a rural area.
- scott_karana 11y agoYeah, their choice makes economic sense. I'm not blaming Flint (or any other town in the Rust Belt), just pointing out concrete items that could leave unfamiliar people "at a loss for words".
- scott_karana 11y agoMaybe that's normal looking in the rust belt, but it's unfamiliar looking to me as well. (Can't speak for the Swede, but I suspect they're surprised for similar reasons) There is: 1) A burned down building (which has been in that state for some time) 2) Boarded up storefronts 3) Plants growing over the unused fences, which themselves are starting to fall over 4) The lots behind the fences look to have been empty for decades 5) Visibly aging concrete 6) Crumbling sidewalks with plants coming up between the tiles 7) at least 3 of the 5 vehicles are from no newer than ~1998 Combine that with the overcast weather, and the bleak color palette of the remaining buildings, and it looks pretty depressing. :( Maybe it's not representative: maybe on a sunnier day, the greenery would make it look lush and liveable, but as it stands it's definitely an unfortunate looking Street View, that one...
- kbenson 11y agoYeah, it's not markedly different than some places I've been, but it does look a bit more neglected, because of the overgrowth and lack of cleanup of a burned out building and overturned tree. The roads... Well, I live in California and I'm used to roads being shitty. I think a lot of smaller countries don't quite understand the cost of keeping such a large road network in order. The US is a very large place, and there are roads everywhere. There are just huge differences in property styles in different parts of the US, and between urban and rural properties.
- Someone 11y agoRoad network size isn't the whole answer. Looking at http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Highways/Total/Per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Hig..., Sweden has more meters of highway per capita than the USA. Looking at http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Road/Motorway-length-per-capita http://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/stats/Transport/Roa..., it has about 20-25% less motorway per capita. The latter more or less equals the difference in GDP, correcting for purchasing power (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PP...)
- RUG3Y 11y agoRight. I live in a rural area in the West, lots of towns look like this (not as green). The town looks poorly maintained but fairly clean, not a lot of trash etc. I don't see the signs that I see in crime infested areas.
- vox_mollis 11y agoBear in mind this is HN. Upper-middle-class people tend to originate from upper-middle-class homes. What many of us grow up in is found to be "shocking" to the Brahmin class.
- flubert 11y agoYes, sometimes it is quite surprising how sheltered people can be. I wonder how much of a role the asymmetry of TV and other media plays. People who live less affluent lifestyles can get any amount of exposure to extravagant living through TV, etc.. But the reverse doesn't seem to be true. Maybe the BBC will do a show about those strange "fly-over" people someday...
- Lawtonfogle 11y agoI guess I come from a different world. This looks like areas I use to walk down as a child.
- maxxxxx 11y agoI think he is at a loss of words because the supposedly richest country has areas like this.
- dsg42 11y agoBecause he's from Sweden, which doesn't allow it's cities to reach this state. Western countries should not look like this.
- AndrewKemendo 11y agoExactly. Except you can do that in Sweden because it has 9 million people and a tiny inhabited area in comparison.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- rasz_pl 11y agoYes, yes, and you cant get decent internet in LA/NY downtown compared to middle of Fuk nowhere in europe due to population density as well!
- Maarten88 11y agoIf Sweden can afford it, the US can as well. It's a matter of priorities.
- dragontamer 11y agoIts a matter of politics. US can afford it, but that'd be "Evil Federal Government laying down red tape on locals". It doesn't help that the local government is sometimes even more incompetent than the Federal Government either. I mean, redirecting the entire city water-supply to a poisoned river? That's some grade A F---ed up right there. In any case, America overall is a strong country, but the worst parts of America are equivalent to a 3rd-World nation.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoIt's also a matter of drawing boundaries. It doesn't make any more sense to complain that Sweden is nicer than Flint, than it would to make the same complaint about Seattle or Philadephia. Or, taking the converse, it makes as much sense to blame Swedes for the state of urban decay in Belarus.
- smiddereens 11y agoPeople tend to underestimate the number of garbage states in the US.
- pc86 11y agoSomething tells me you overestimate it.
- eric_cc 11y agoHe is at a loss of words. He is not speaking on behalf of You.
- analyst74 11y agoDespite US's overall economical and military dominance, the poor parts of US is really bad. Especially to people from other first-world countries who thought US is similar to their own country. For the Americans who have not traveled abroad, countries in northern Europe, Canada/Australia generally do not have the level of poverty some parts of US suffers.
- merpnderp 11y agoAbandoned or neglected properties are not a great measure for poverty. The average after government transfer income of the bottom quintile of households in the US is ~$25,000, which is slightly more than the after government transfers to the bottom quintile of households in the UK. Meanwhile the middle quintile of income earners in the UK is about $20,000 short of the middle US quintile.
- sedachv 11y agoIn Canada (and Australia from what I have read, but not personally seen) the level of poverty in many Native towns is certainly comparable.
- zzalpha 11y agoUmm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. It's absolutely true that many of the indigenous reserves here are a living tragedy... in fact, like Australia, we have a long and shameful history with respect to our indigenous population, a history that we're still writing today (recently the CBC had to shut down comments on stories about indigenous issues due the quantity of hateful comments they attract). That said, small town Canada can absolutely suffer as bad as anywhere in the US (just like America's coal and steel towns, it's not unusual for small towns to be dependent on a single industry, and if that industry suffers the town suffers...). However, we don't tend to have the same level of urban blight and decay as you see in some American cities.
- sedachv 11y ago> Umm, there are no "native towns" in Canada. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reserves_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_reserves_in_Can... Most of those have towns in them. > However, we don't tend to have the same level of urban blight and decay as you see in some American cities. There are plenty of run-down areas and derelict industrial objects in and around Montreal. It is true you cannot compare Montreal to select cities like Detroit or Newark, but that is because the urban blight there is exclusively a product of systemic racism against blacks in the United States. This is why it makes more sense to compare Detroit to Native towns. Indigenous people in Canada face blatant and open discrimination today that is comparable to what blacks face in the United States.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- dalke 11y agoI am a US citizen who moved to Sweden. I've done a decent amount of cycling across the Swedish countryside, and think I can explain. The sights in these photos that you (and I, who grew up in Florida) think are pretty common, are quite rare in Sweden. That is, it's rare to find houses with boarded up windows, or missing part of its siding, or burnt down and in a state of decay. Suburban areas are almost all immaculate, with well kept lawns, and solid construction. Rare, but not impossible. Here's one https://www.google.com/maps/@59.0577422,12.4528682,3a,37.5y,172.27h,81.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sXplmxi2F1Trhu8-rnN0xnw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@59.0577422,12.4528682,3a,37.5y,... . Just down the street is the old market and gas station https://www.google.com/maps/@59.0578664,12.4544937,3a,37.5y,145.53h,82.3t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4aHE_7T44wJdvM9c5ymX_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@59.0578664,12.4544937,3a,37.5y,... . I can gave a hand-waving explanation. This picture is from Edsleskog, a town that used to be more of a real town. Cars didn't become common in Swede until the 1960 or so. (Sweden was a relatively poor country, and I have a Swedish book from the 1950s where two children visit the US and are astonished that a family might have two cars, when a family in Sweden might have a moped.) But once cars became common, people preferred to drive the 15 minutes to get to the bigger, nearby city of Åmål for shopping and other errands, and for work. Some of the older building are now no longer useful. Since that area has had the population growth that the cities have had, older places are left to decay, rather than be replaced with something more useful.
- thrownaway2424 11y agoI don't know if it's terribly useful to compare the entire US with Sweden. Sweden is about as populous as the Bay Area. If you're going to make comparisons with the worst places in the US, you should compare with the worst place in Europe. Drop a street view guy in the middle of Donetsk and have a look around.
- dalke 11y agoBut we aren't talking specifically about the 'worst places in the US'. I and others have commented that many of those shots don't "look significantly different from the town I grew up in", nor "markedly different than some places I've been", and that "this could easily be images from parts of Buffalo, Rochester, Syracuse, Albany, etc" or "from any town across much of the North."
- vadym909 11y agoMost foreigners think all of the US looks like New York City or a Beverly Hills suburb because they see that version all the time in the hit movies and on popular TV shows. My relative came to Silicon Valley and was shocked it wasn't like a space-age city with gleaming buildings and futuristic roads. Like truly shocked!
- andrelaszlo 11y agoYep, that's it I didn't mean to sound condescending. Just think it's sad to see what seems to have been a pretty cozy neighborhood fall apart like that. And no, I haven't seen anything like that here in Sweden but I don't think it makes us better than you.
- flubert 11y ago"Somewhere in the past 50 years or so the media accidentally constructed an artificial reality that was hidden by the on-purpose entertainment reality of TV shows. You look at any of the CSI shows and think, "well, of course this isn't a real representation of actual crime scene investigators." But it never occurs to you to think as they're arresting a suspect, "since when did it become ordinary for professional cops in their 40s to have no kids, tons of disposable income, and regularly go out on dates that end in sex? And what the hell happened to body fat?" " http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_should_be_w.html http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_sh...