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> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various solutions

by a3n 11y ago

> Through continued demonstrations by Flint residents and mounting scientific evidence of the water’s toxins, city and state officials offered various solutions — from asking residents to boil their water to providing them with water filters — in an attempt to work around the need to reconnect to the Detroit system. Can you boil lead out of water, or does it just become more concentrated?

alexbock 11y ago
Distillation would essentially be doing the reverse, "boiling the water out of the lead", and that would work. But no amount of boiling in a open pot is going to remove lead from your water. It's hard to tell from the article, but the reference to boiling water might have been in response to the other issue mentioned, trihalomethanes in the water. As dissolved gases, boiling should help drive them out. (side note: a trihalomethane is more commonly referred to as a haloform, which is the family chloroform comes from)
- darkr 11y ago
  Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead.
  - shabda 11y ago
    Can you explain what hydrogen-heavy means?
    - prklmn 11y ago
      The ratio of hydrogen to hydroxide is higher than it normally is. Water naturally dissociates into hydrogen and hydroxide ever so slightly in equal amounts under neutral conditions.
      - logfromblammo 11y ago
        The auto-dissociation constant Kw is 10^-14 mol^2 L^-2. That means that concentration of hydronium [H3O+] ion multiplied by the concentration of hydroxide [OH-] ion is equal to the constant. In pure water, there are no other ions to change the balance, so you get 2 H2O <-> H3O+ + OH-, and each concentration is the square root of the dissociation constant. So 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ and 10^-7 mol/L OH-. The abbreviation "pH" stands for "power hydrogen", and is the negative log10 of the H3O+ concentration. 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ is pH 7, which is neutral. There is also a lesser-known term pOH, which is pretty much pOH + pH = 14 under normal conditions. But that water doesn't stay perfectly neutral for long. CO2 from the atmosphere dissolves into it, using CO2(g) <-> CO2(aq) K_CO2 = 2.0e-3, P_CO2 = 3.6e-4 CO2(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H2CO3(aq) K = 1.3e-3 H2CO3(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H3O+(aq) + HCO3-(aq) Ka1 = 2.0e-4 HCO3-(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H3O+(aq) + CO3--(aq) Ka2 = 4.7e-11 Solving the equilibrium gives you a pH of 5.65 (10^-5.65 mol/L H3O+). Some natural groundwater contains other dissolved minerals, including carbonates (limestone is CaCO3), which pushes the CO2 equilibrium in the other direction, making water more basic (higher pH).
  - alexbock 11y ago
    When you say that boiling results in acidic water, are you referring to the fact that pH-neutral water would be slightly more acidic than your (slightly basic) blood, or is this about dissolved CO2 or something else entirely?
    - darkr 11y ago
      It's due to absorbing C02 from the air whilst in gaseous form, which is then subsequently absorbed into the blood stream after consumption.
  - witty_username 11y ago
    @shabda Hydrogen heavy water means acidic water with high amounts of dissolved H+.
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    > hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead. Yeah, but why would a water with slightly acidic pH be a major problem for health anyway? Numerous mineral waters sold on the market at not at pH 7 in the first place.
    - undersuit 11y ago
      Tooth Decay
      - scott_karana 11y ago
        Well, at least we have solutions to that, unlike young-child lead poisoning.
        undersuit 11y ago
        Dimercaptosuccinic acid is a chelation agent that has been recommended for lead poisoning in children. The side effects seem less severe than most of the effects of lead poisoning. Definitely would prefer the tooth decay if we have to pick.
dysfunction 11y ago
No, according to the CDC: > Heating or boiling your water will not remove lead. Because some of the water evaporates during the boiling process, the lead concentration of the water can actually increase slightly as the water is boiled. http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/lead.html http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disea...
- ekianjo 11y ago
  It depends on the lead salt type, but you could usually precipitate the soluble lead into an insoluble salt with simple ingredients available at home - then, you could remove the formed salt with a proper filter to remove most of the lead. http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/group4/lead.html http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/group4/lead.html
  - boxy310 11y ago
    Solid guide, but having to purify the water coming out of your tap defeats much of the purpose of having a city water supply.
    - ekianjo 11y ago
      I agree, but it's usually less expensive than buying bottled water.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- DanBC 11y ago
  Iron overdose is pretty dangerous, especially for children. http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/applications/4_2_LeadOralChelators.pdf http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/... Here's what WHO say: > Several chelating agents are effective in lead excretion, but the chelator of choice depends on the blood lead concentration, the patient’s symptoms and the environmental lead burden. Symptomatic patients should be hospitalized and chelation therapy with Edetate Calcium Disodium (CaNa2EDTA). CaNa2EDTA is an intravenous formulation that has been shown to be effective with British AntiLewisite (BAL, Dimercaprol) for removal of lead in patients with encephalopathy. Edetate calcium disodium, used alone, may aggravate symptoms in patients with very high blood lead levels. When clinical symptoms consistent with lead poisoning or when blood lead levels are greater than 70 micrograms/deciliter, it is recommended that edetate calcium disodium be used in conjunction with dimercaprol.24 British-Anti-Lewisite (BAL) or dimercaprol is a small molecule drug which will cross into cells and may prevent the worsening of clinical and biochemical status on the first day of EDTA therapy.25 Oral chelating agents are available for treatment of lead poisoned patients who have elevated blood lead concentrations and asymptomatic. In the Unites States, 2,3 Dimercaptosuccinic Acid (DMSA, Succimer) is the drug most commonly used. Other oral agents that may be used are DMPS (Unithiol) and penicillamine. Here's what CDC say about the pharmacology of chelating agents: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapter7.htm#Pharmacology http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapte...
- umanwizard 11y ago
  Off-topic, but what's the point of the "this is not medical advice" disclaimer? Your post is, patently obviously, medical advice.
  - flippant 11y ago
    It's a reminder to double-check with your doctor before taking the advice of a stranger on the internet.
  - 11y ago
rsfern 11y ago
You can't boil lead out of water, in the same way that you can't boil salt out of water. Metal extraction is a pretty hard problem. It seems that you can reduce the levels of the aforementioned trihalomethane compounds by boiling though. http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/959480 http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/959480
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

by a3n 11y ago

alexbock 11y ago

Distillation would essentially be doing the reverse, "boiling the water out of the lead", and that would work. But no amount of boiling in a open pot is going to remove lead from your water. It's hard to tell from the article, but the reference to boiling water might have been in response to the other issue mentioned, trihalomethanes in the water. As dissolved gases, boiling should help drive them out. (side note: a trihalomethane is more commonly referred to as a haloform, which is the family chloroform comes from)

darkr 11y ago
Yup. Distillation should remove any heavy metal elements. It's not ideal to consume long term, as it removes most useful minerals and results in a hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead.
- shabda 11y ago
  Can you explain what hydrogen-heavy means?
  - prklmn 11y ago
    The ratio of hydrogen to hydroxide is higher than it normally is. Water naturally dissociates into hydrogen and hydroxide ever so slightly in equal amounts under neutral conditions.
    - logfromblammo 11y ago
      The auto-dissociation constant Kw is 10^-14 mol^2 L^-2. That means that concentration of hydronium [H3O+] ion multiplied by the concentration of hydroxide [OH-] ion is equal to the constant. In pure water, there are no other ions to change the balance, so you get 2 H2O <-> H3O+ + OH-, and each concentration is the square root of the dissociation constant. So 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ and 10^-7 mol/L OH-. The abbreviation "pH" stands for "power hydrogen", and is the negative log10 of the H3O+ concentration. 10^-7 mol/L H3O+ is pH 7, which is neutral. There is also a lesser-known term pOH, which is pretty much pOH + pH = 14 under normal conditions. But that water doesn't stay perfectly neutral for long. CO2 from the atmosphere dissolves into it, using CO2(g) <-> CO2(aq) K_CO2 = 2.0e-3, P_CO2 = 3.6e-4 CO2(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H2CO3(aq) K = 1.3e-3 H2CO3(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H3O+(aq) + HCO3-(aq) Ka1 = 2.0e-4 HCO3-(aq) + H2O(l) <-> H3O+(aq) + CO3--(aq) Ka2 = 4.7e-11 Solving the equilibrium gives you a pH of 5.65 (10^-5.65 mol/L H3O+). Some natural groundwater contains other dissolved minerals, including carbonates (limestone is CaCO3), which pushes the CO2 equilibrium in the other direction, making water more basic (higher pH).
- alexbock 11y ago
  When you say that boiling results in acidic water, are you referring to the fact that pH-neutral water would be slightly more acidic than your (slightly basic) blood, or is this about dissolved CO2 or something else entirely?
  - darkr 11y ago
    It's due to absorbing C02 from the air whilst in gaseous form, which is then subsequently absorbed into the blood stream after consumption.
- witty_username 11y ago
  @shabda Hydrogen heavy water means acidic water with high amounts of dissolved H+.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  > hydrogen-heavy/acidic water, but it's certainly far better than consuming lead. Yeah, but why would a water with slightly acidic pH be a major problem for health anyway? Numerous mineral waters sold on the market at not at pH 7 in the first place.
  - undersuit 11y ago
    Tooth Decay
    - scott_karana 11y ago
      Well, at least we have solutions to that, unlike young-child lead poisoning.
      - undersuit 11y ago
        Dimercaptosuccinic acid is a chelation agent that has been recommended for lead poisoning in children. The side effects seem less severe than most of the effects of lead poisoning. Definitely would prefer the tooth decay if we have to pick.

dysfunction 11y ago

No, according to the CDC: > Heating or boiling your water will not remove lead. Because some of the water evaporates during the boiling process, the lead concentration of the water can actually increase slightly as the water is boiled. http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disease/lead.html http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/private/wells/disea...

ekianjo 11y ago
It depends on the lead salt type, but you could usually precipitate the soluble lead into an insoluble salt with simple ingredients available at home - then, you could remove the formed salt with a proper filter to remove most of the lead. http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/group4/lead.html http://www.chemguide.co.uk/inorganic/group4/lead.html
- boxy310 11y ago
  Solid guide, but having to purify the water coming out of your tap defeats much of the purpose of having a city water supply.
  - ekianjo 11y ago
    I agree, but it's usually less expensive than buying bottled water.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

DanBC 11y ago
Iron overdose is pretty dangerous, especially for children. http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/applications/4_2_LeadOralChelators.pdf http://www.who.int/selection_medicines/committees/expert/18/... Here's what WHO say: > Several chelating agents are effective in lead excretion, but the chelator of choice depends on the blood lead concentration, the patient’s symptoms and the environmental lead burden. Symptomatic patients should be hospitalized and chelation therapy with Edetate Calcium Disodium (CaNa2EDTA). CaNa2EDTA is an intravenous formulation that has been shown to be effective with British AntiLewisite (BAL, Dimercaprol) for removal of lead in patients with encephalopathy. Edetate calcium disodium, used alone, may aggravate symptoms in patients with very high blood lead levels. When clinical symptoms consistent with lead poisoning or when blood lead levels are greater than 70 micrograms/deciliter, it is recommended that edetate calcium disodium be used in conjunction with dimercaprol.24 British-Anti-Lewisite (BAL) or dimercaprol is a small molecule drug which will cross into cells and may prevent the worsening of clinical and biochemical status on the first day of EDTA therapy.25 Oral chelating agents are available for treatment of lead poisoned patients who have elevated blood lead concentrations and asymptomatic. In the Unites States, 2,3 Dimercaptosuccinic Acid (DMSA, Succimer) is the drug most commonly used. Other oral agents that may be used are DMPS (Unithiol) and penicillamine. Here's what CDC say about the pharmacology of chelating agents: http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapter7.htm#Pharmacology http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/publications/books/plpyc/chapte...
umanwizard 11y ago
Off-topic, but what's the point of the "this is not medical advice" disclaimer? Your post is, patently obviously, medical advice.
- flippant 11y ago
  It's a reminder to double-check with your doctor before taking the advice of a stranger on the internet.
- 11y ago

rsfern 11y ago

You can't boil lead out of water, in the same way that you can't boil salt out of water. Metal extraction is a pretty hard problem. It seems that you can reduce the levels of the aforementioned trihalomethane compounds by boiling though. http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/959480 http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2013/959480

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]