7 ms·

As IoT becomes more ubiquitous, the people who plaster their houses in tin foil will become less ridiculous.

scott_karana 11y ago
Either that, or more ridiculous, since their luddism will be even more outwardly apparent to everyone else... Not being on Facebook is conspicuous enough already. :/
mindslight 11y ago
Nah. Pop open the cover and install an aftermarket control board that runs Free software. Eventually, this will be more user-friendly (better interface one doesn't have to relearn every monthly update), convenient (better software features), and economical (how many appliances are thrown out due to software malfunctions).
- maxerickson 11y ago
  And then epoxy.
- qb45 11y ago
  I actually hope for that. My parents' washing machine blew some motor driver IGBTs along with the MCU and its proprietary firmware. It's basically scrap metal now as replacement boards are sold barely cheaper than a new machine.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  You're being sarcastic, right? > Pop open the cover and install an aftermarket control board that runs Free software. Appliances will get redesigned so that it's hard to do it. If they really want to drive the message home, then like 'maxerickson said, it's epoxy time. > Eventually, this will be more user-friendly (better interface one doesn't have to relearn every monthly update) See mobile. > convenient (better software features) See all software. > and economical (how many appliances are thrown out due to software malfunctions). Again, see mobile.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    Actually, I'm not being sarcastic at all. I haven't opened too many post-infopocalypse appliances but the ones I've seen have been dead simple, apart from their over-"engineered" control boards. These things used to run off mechanical timers, and that is still the underlying philosophy, with new "smart" features mostly UI-based. It seems to me that one could design a general sequencing board to run many models. Some types would be harder than others (washing machines with brushless motors), and moreso if manufacturers start to add digitally-communicating sensors, but these don't seem insurmountable to handle pretty generally. So a total end-user installed cost of say $400? That seems within the price differential between "low end" and "high end" models that differ in software. It just takes will since it requires not just picking from what the advertising says, like anything Free. But IMHO this is a social momentum issue and the disadvantages of proprietary trash-land will only be more and more pronounced as there are ever-more features for manufacturers to fuck up. And as far as epoxy? Manufacturers don't really care if you mod things they've made, they just don't want to be on the hook for supporting this. The protectiveness is rooted in thinking their shoddy software is some kind of "competitive advantage". Completely replacing the control board sidesteps this.
- pjc50 11y ago
  Since this has to be reverse-engineered for each model, it's not going to be very prevalent. Are there any examples of this already?
  - fixermark 11y ago
    Pinball machines, but I'd hardly call one-size-fits-all pinball central controllers a harbinger of a brave new world of DIY control board installs. There's significant economic incentive to tinkering with a pinball machine until it works. Ironically, the all-in-one controllers also tend to be missing some of the more popular pinball machine models, as the IP owners for those machines had the legal muscle to boss around the companies that make the all-in-one boards. As a result, some of the more popular pinball machines are dying as their control boards wear out and they cannot be replaced, because even the popular manufacturers either rotated what they make or went out of business / got bought. :-p
- pavel_lishin 11y ago
  I've had Ubuntu running on my old desktop for a few years now. It's literally a 50% chance as to whether I'll be able to get the GUI login screen to come up, and be able to log in successfully on my first try, without having to ssh in from another machine and fiddle around with things. This isn't an exaggeration. 50%.
  - ethbro 11y ago
    I remember my first experience with running LXDE. Turns out drag-and-drop between folders had been implemented, but no one had decided to code drag-from-folder-to-desktop as a feature. ... I wish I was kidding.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    There are many Ubuntu installs that "just work". If this is your "old desktop", then it sounds like you probably didn't set out to purchase hardware known to work well with Linux. One broken machine isn't an indicator of much of anything.
  - simoncion 11y ago
    Are you running the nouveau driver? If you are, know that it's notoriously unstable and crashy, especially older versions of it. I've installed and run Linux on many computers over the past $WAY_TOO_LONG. Anecdotes aren't data, but your experience is an outlier these days. Regardless. I gather that you're trying to slyly imply that your bad experience with Ubuntu means that Free Software is synonymous with low quality or something. That's a silly thing to do.
    - pavel_lishin 11y ago
      You're right, FS is not an indicator of quality one way or the other, no more than paid software is.
shostack 11y ago
Not just that, but I can't wait for the day I can only rent my appliances and have to have a monthly subscription to some GE "Smart Appliance Network" for them to even work.
- jimmaswell 11y ago
  I feel like people would just not buy these theoretical ridiculous appliances and just stay with older ones until the appliance manufacturers started making normal appliances again.
  - TeMPOraL 11y ago
    Like they don't buy e-books, or smart TVs? Like they didn't buy that cloud-connected laser cutter that'll brick itself when its makers go out of business[0]? It's been proven time and again that people buy against their best interest; that's why this business model is becoming popular. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10272483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10272483
    - jdmichal 11y ago
      To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after almost 10 years. I'd prefer to buy a non-smart TV, but honestly all the top models include it now, so it's pretty much unavoidable.
      - TeMPOraL 11y ago
        You've just described how this scenario most likely will play out with othe appliances if producers decide to go the rental way. People may stay with their old ones... until they break, then it's time to buy a new one, but there's no non-"smart" appliance on the market anymore.
        ethbro 11y ago
ne0n 11y ago
I was reading recently that there's a special type of paint you can use on the walls of your house to block wifi signals, essentially keeping your wifi contained within your walls and keeping the noise level down by blocking your neighbours' wifi.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

Either that, or more ridiculous, since their luddism will be even more outwardly apparent to everyone else... Not being on Facebook is conspicuous enough already. :/

mindslight 11y ago

Nah. Pop open the cover and install an aftermarket control board that runs Free software. Eventually, this will be more user-friendly (better interface one doesn't have to relearn every monthly update), convenient (better software features), and economical (how many appliances are thrown out due to software malfunctions).

maxerickson 11y ago
And then epoxy.
qb45 11y ago
I actually hope for that. My parents' washing machine blew some motor driver IGBTs along with the MCU and its proprietary firmware. It's basically scrap metal now as replacement boards are sold barely cheaper than a new machine.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
You're being sarcastic, right? > Pop open the cover and install an aftermarket control board that runs Free software. Appliances will get redesigned so that it's hard to do it. If they really want to drive the message home, then like 'maxerickson said, it's epoxy time. > Eventually, this will be more user-friendly (better interface one doesn't have to relearn every monthly update) See mobile. > convenient (better software features) See all software. > and economical (how many appliances are thrown out due to software malfunctions). Again, see mobile.
- mindslight 11y ago
  Actually, I'm not being sarcastic at all. I haven't opened too many post-infopocalypse appliances but the ones I've seen have been dead simple, apart from their over-"engineered" control boards. These things used to run off mechanical timers, and that is still the underlying philosophy, with new "smart" features mostly UI-based. It seems to me that one could design a general sequencing board to run many models. Some types would be harder than others (washing machines with brushless motors), and moreso if manufacturers start to add digitally-communicating sensors, but these don't seem insurmountable to handle pretty generally. So a total end-user installed cost of say $400? That seems within the price differential between "low end" and "high end" models that differ in software. It just takes will since it requires not just picking from what the advertising says, like anything Free. But IMHO this is a social momentum issue and the disadvantages of proprietary trash-land will only be more and more pronounced as there are ever-more features for manufacturers to fuck up. And as far as epoxy? Manufacturers don't really care if you mod things they've made, they just don't want to be on the hook for supporting this. The protectiveness is rooted in thinking their shoddy software is some kind of "competitive advantage". Completely replacing the control board sidesteps this.
pjc50 11y ago
Since this has to be reverse-engineered for each model, it's not going to be very prevalent. Are there any examples of this already?
- fixermark 11y ago
  Pinball machines, but I'd hardly call one-size-fits-all pinball central controllers a harbinger of a brave new world of DIY control board installs. There's significant economic incentive to tinkering with a pinball machine until it works. Ironically, the all-in-one controllers also tend to be missing some of the more popular pinball machine models, as the IP owners for those machines had the legal muscle to boss around the companies that make the all-in-one boards. As a result, some of the more popular pinball machines are dying as their control boards wear out and they cannot be replaced, because even the popular manufacturers either rotated what they make or went out of business / got bought. :-p
pavel_lishin 11y ago
I've had Ubuntu running on my old desktop for a few years now. It's literally a 50% chance as to whether I'll be able to get the GUI login screen to come up, and be able to log in successfully on my first try, without having to ssh in from another machine and fiddle around with things. This isn't an exaggeration. 50%.
- ethbro 11y ago
  I remember my first experience with running LXDE. Turns out drag-and-drop between folders had been implemented, but no one had decided to code drag-from-folder-to-desktop as a feature. ... I wish I was kidding.
- mindslight 11y ago
  There are many Ubuntu installs that "just work". If this is your "old desktop", then it sounds like you probably didn't set out to purchase hardware known to work well with Linux. One broken machine isn't an indicator of much of anything.
- simoncion 11y ago
  Are you running the nouveau driver? If you are, know that it's notoriously unstable and crashy, especially older versions of it. I've installed and run Linux on many computers over the past $WAY_TOO_LONG. Anecdotes aren't data, but your experience is an outlier these days. Regardless. I gather that you're trying to slyly imply that your bad experience with Ubuntu means that Free Software is synonymous with low quality or something. That's a silly thing to do.
  - pavel_lishin 11y ago
    You're right, FS is not an indicator of quality one way or the other, no more than paid software is.

shostack 11y ago

Not just that, but I can't wait for the day I can only rent my appliances and have to have a monthly subscription to some GE "Smart Appliance Network" for them to even work.

jimmaswell 11y ago
I feel like people would just not buy these theoretical ridiculous appliances and just stay with older ones until the appliance manufacturers started making normal appliances again.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  Like they don't buy e-books, or smart TVs? Like they didn't buy that cloud-connected laser cutter that'll brick itself when its makers go out of business[0]? It's been proven time and again that people buy against their best interest; that's why this business model is becoming popular. [0] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10272483 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10272483
  - jdmichal 11y ago
    To be fair, smart TVs still work as TVs, even if the entire "smart" portion is broken. I'm entertaining buying a new TV soon, since mine is on the out after almost 10 years. I'd prefer to buy a non-smart TV, but honestly all the top models include it now, so it's pretty much unavoidable.
    - TeMPOraL 11y ago
      You've just described how this scenario most likely will play out with othe appliances if producers decide to go the rental way. People may stay with their old ones... until they break, then it's time to buy a new one, but there's no non-"smart" appliance on the market anymore.
      - ethbro 11y ago

ne0n 11y ago

I was reading recently that there's a special type of paint you can use on the walls of your house to block wifi signals, essentially keeping your wifi contained within your walls and keeping the noise level down by blocking your neighbours' wifi.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]