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I am happy that small, but fairly substantive (and meaningful) policies like this still manage to get through Congress. And that not everything becomes like tha

I am happy that small, but fairly substantive (and meaningful) policies like this still manage to get through Congress. And that not everything becomes like that "feds are confiscating our light bulbs" fight because of posturing or corruption. This is a good regulation/law, and it's actually going to be passed. Glad it still happens sometimes.

ksenzee 11y ago
Not all the opposition to the light bulbs regulation was corruption and posturing. Some of it was quite reasonable objections from consumers along the lines of "hey, I buy that product, and there's no good substitute at a reasonable price point." I doubt consumers really care that much about microbeads, which makes them a lot easier to ban.
- cballard 11y ago
  Yeah, CFL bulbs are icky blue flickering garbage, and the LED bulbs I've used (Hue), while otherwise fine, don't support my dimmer correctly. Using the Hue app isn't as easy as walking over to the light switch, and they won't work anyways, unless I rip out the dimmer - I ended up putting the Hue bulbs in the bathroom, which is at least fun for a joke. Incandescent bulbs are just a better experience for me right now. I don't think there are any such advantages for microbeads.
  - dbloom 11y ago
    There are LED bulbs on the market that have great compatibility with all dimmers. I hope that market forces eventually weed out all of the less compatible LED bulbs. At that point, LED bulbs should be truly interchangeable with incandescents for lighting (heat generation, not so much).
    - simcop2387 11y ago
      I've got a few of the good ones for dimmers, I have however had a problem with them still. They're too efficient, all of the dimmers I have don't got low enough to be able to actually get them dark at the low end. They're all still fairly bright and I've already gone to bulbs rated at half of what I had originally. I think it's just something that's going to take a bit to actually catch up properly.
    - rconti 11y ago
      True, but it depends. I bought a bunch (16?) of top-end Soraa MR16 bulbs at about $30 apiece to replace the halogens in my new house. This is not something everyone can easily afford. Of course, it turns out that even though they have great dimmer compatibility, they're not 100% compatible with my magnetic dimmers. I have to trim them to 80% of peak; if I try to run them over 80%, the transformer resets and the bulb turns off. Sometimes they strobe for a few seconds when they're running at max brightness, I haven't solved that issue yet. So unless I want to replace every transformer at ~$60 a pop or more (plus labor costs if not doing it yourself), plus likely a bunch of switches.. It's either $100 per bulb to go LED, or suffer with not-quite-perfect replacements.
      - simcop2387 11y ago
        Can't say I've had any experience with magnetic dimmers, but the cheaper dimmer compatible LEDs seem work fine on Triac dimmers.
        rconti 11y ago
        I think often the answer is "you won't know until you try it". Forward-phase, reverse-phase, symmetrical... Low voltage in particular makes things more complicated. http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-9/issue-6/features/understand-triac-dimmer-issues-to-ensure-compatibility-magazine.html http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-9/issue-6/... http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/DimmingBasics.aspx http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/Dim...
        nitrogen 11y ago
        Why can't the LED controller circuits come with a calibration feature that detects (with user help) the minimum level the dimmer will support, and makes that the all-black point?
        simcop2387 11y ago
        Partly because the usual minimum level the dimmer will support is off. That is the all black point :) I know what you mean though. It'd be nice if there was some way to adjust them to change the brightness curve to match what you'd expect. It's one reason I'm considering something like the Phillips Hue bulbs instead of dimmers in the future despite the cost difference.
    - matwood 11y ago
      NOW there are LEDs on the market. I'm a bit of bulb person and have tried all sorts of LEDs. The other problem is that many of the LED bulbs used to look bad if they were not in a shade. Fortunately that situation has also improved.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
    There are LED bulbs designed to work in dimmer switches. I don't remember the model, but I had one that worked with my dimmer switch in an old 1970s era building I lived in. My current apartment came with CFLs and a dimmer switch. They work well with the dimmer. It's a pretty new building though, so perhaps the switch was designed with them in mind. It might be worth looking at new switches to see if they help with LEDs.
    - cballard 11y ago
      I installed the dimmer myself after moving into this apartment somewhat recently, so it's a pretty recent model, whatever that means for a light switch.
- kbd 11y ago
  > and there's no good substitute at a reasonable price point Not to mention that the CFL bulbs are poisonous and contain mercury. If they break, they're hazardous.
  - freditup 11y ago
    This is a huge point. When I was young, I broke many lightbulbs playing sports in my basement. Regular old incandescent lightbulbs were perfect for this scenario - cheap to replace, not chemically hazardous if broken, and not turned on all that often so the power consumption wasn't a big deal.
    - jonknee 11y ago
      Put in some LEDs and you'll never break one again (or have to change it!).
      - freditup 11y ago
        LEDs are great, and I'm happy they're gaining popularity and their price is coming down. But I'd rather have kids break a 20 cent lightbulb instead of a $5 bulb. Still, a lot of LED bulbs now seems to come in plastic casing, so perhaps they would be more durable - good point!
merpnderp 11y ago
Given GE's political clout, their negative income tax rate, their patents on CFL bulbs, and how quickly LED's displaced CFL's making it obvious there was a better solution on the horizon, I'm guessing the corruption was on the side pushing the CFL bulbs. It certainly wasn't the lobby for commoditized $.10/bulb incandescents.
- 27182818284 11y ago
  Well, it wasn't really about light bulb pricing. It was about conservative vs liberal. Light bulbs were just a handy talking point that could be used in stump speeches as a psuedo-argumentum-ad-absurdum of the left. E.g, "And now they're trying to tell you to get rid of your light bulbs? C'mon!"
  - squidfood 11y ago
    Honestly, it was because the mandate came when CFLs were still a bit buzzy (or otherwise immature technologically), so it seemed like a quality sacrifice. (no longer of course; we can probably discuss infinitely whether the mandate helped or hindered the tech).
    - ksenzee 11y ago
      CFLs are still a quality sacrifice if you care about ease of responsible disposal and the quality of the light. It's fascinating to me to see the divide between people who think fluorescent light is fine and people who are repelled by it.
      - pixelcloud 11y ago
        I actually could not stand fluorscent lights for many years (I would get massive headaches). I recently moved into a new place, and after I light burnt out I was surprised to see a CFL. No issues with headaches and a nice warm white.
      - nulltype 11y ago
        CFLs also supposedly have a shorter life than incandescents if turned on and off frequently.
samstave 11y ago
I am just curious what kind of graft/riders/pork may be attached to a bill that is clearly a no-brainer that this is a good idea to pass.

ksenzee 11y ago

Not all the opposition to the light bulbs regulation was corruption and posturing. Some of it was quite reasonable objections from consumers along the lines of "hey, I buy that product, and there's no good substitute at a reasonable price point." I doubt consumers really care that much about microbeads, which makes them a lot easier to ban.

cballard 11y ago
Yeah, CFL bulbs are icky blue flickering garbage, and the LED bulbs I've used (Hue), while otherwise fine, don't support my dimmer correctly. Using the Hue app isn't as easy as walking over to the light switch, and they won't work anyways, unless I rip out the dimmer - I ended up putting the Hue bulbs in the bathroom, which is at least fun for a joke. Incandescent bulbs are just a better experience for me right now. I don't think there are any such advantages for microbeads.
- dbloom 11y ago
  There are LED bulbs on the market that have great compatibility with all dimmers. I hope that market forces eventually weed out all of the less compatible LED bulbs. At that point, LED bulbs should be truly interchangeable with incandescents for lighting (heat generation, not so much).
  - simcop2387 11y ago
    I've got a few of the good ones for dimmers, I have however had a problem with them still. They're too efficient, all of the dimmers I have don't got low enough to be able to actually get them dark at the low end. They're all still fairly bright and I've already gone to bulbs rated at half of what I had originally. I think it's just something that's going to take a bit to actually catch up properly.
  - rconti 11y ago
    True, but it depends. I bought a bunch (16?) of top-end Soraa MR16 bulbs at about $30 apiece to replace the halogens in my new house. This is not something everyone can easily afford. Of course, it turns out that even though they have great dimmer compatibility, they're not 100% compatible with my magnetic dimmers. I have to trim them to 80% of peak; if I try to run them over 80%, the transformer resets and the bulb turns off. Sometimes they strobe for a few seconds when they're running at max brightness, I haven't solved that issue yet. So unless I want to replace every transformer at ~$60 a pop or more (plus labor costs if not doing it yourself), plus likely a bunch of switches.. It's either $100 per bulb to go LED, or suffer with not-quite-perfect replacements.
    - simcop2387 11y ago
      Can't say I've had any experience with magnetic dimmers, but the cheaper dimmer compatible LEDs seem work fine on Triac dimmers.
      - rconti 11y ago
        I think often the answer is "you won't know until you try it". Forward-phase, reverse-phase, symmetrical... Low voltage in particular makes things more complicated. http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-9/issue-6/features/understand-triac-dimmer-issues-to-ensure-compatibility-magazine.html http://www.ledsmagazine.com/articles/print/volume-9/issue-6/... http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/DimmingBasics.aspx http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Education-Training/Pages/LCE/Dim...
        nitrogen 11y ago
        Why can't the LED controller circuits come with a calibration feature that detects (with user help) the minimum level the dimmer will support, and makes that the all-black point?
        simcop2387 11y ago
        Partly because the usual minimum level the dimmer will support is off. That is the all black point :) I know what you mean though. It'd be nice if there was some way to adjust them to change the brightness curve to match what you'd expect. It's one reason I'm considering something like the Phillips Hue bulbs instead of dimmers in the future despite the cost difference.
  - matwood 11y ago
    NOW there are LEDs on the market. I'm a bit of bulb person and have tried all sorts of LEDs. The other problem is that many of the LED bulbs used to look bad if they were not in a shade. Fortunately that situation has also improved.
- Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
  There are LED bulbs designed to work in dimmer switches. I don't remember the model, but I had one that worked with my dimmer switch in an old 1970s era building I lived in. My current apartment came with CFLs and a dimmer switch. They work well with the dimmer. It's a pretty new building though, so perhaps the switch was designed with them in mind. It might be worth looking at new switches to see if they help with LEDs.
  - cballard 11y ago
    I installed the dimmer myself after moving into this apartment somewhat recently, so it's a pretty recent model, whatever that means for a light switch.
kbd 11y ago
> and there's no good substitute at a reasonable price point Not to mention that the CFL bulbs are poisonous and contain mercury. If they break, they're hazardous.
- freditup 11y ago
  This is a huge point. When I was young, I broke many lightbulbs playing sports in my basement. Regular old incandescent lightbulbs were perfect for this scenario - cheap to replace, not chemically hazardous if broken, and not turned on all that often so the power consumption wasn't a big deal.
  - jonknee 11y ago
    Put in some LEDs and you'll never break one again (or have to change it!).
    - freditup 11y ago
      LEDs are great, and I'm happy they're gaining popularity and their price is coming down. But I'd rather have kids break a 20 cent lightbulb instead of a $5 bulb. Still, a lot of LED bulbs now seems to come in plastic casing, so perhaps they would be more durable - good point!

merpnderp 11y ago

Given GE's political clout, their negative income tax rate, their patents on CFL bulbs, and how quickly LED's displaced CFL's making it obvious there was a better solution on the horizon, I'm guessing the corruption was on the side pushing the CFL bulbs. It certainly wasn't the lobby for commoditized $.10/bulb incandescents.

27182818284 11y ago
Well, it wasn't really about light bulb pricing. It was about conservative vs liberal. Light bulbs were just a handy talking point that could be used in stump speeches as a psuedo-argumentum-ad-absurdum of the left. E.g, "And now they're trying to tell you to get rid of your light bulbs? C'mon!"
- squidfood 11y ago
  Honestly, it was because the mandate came when CFLs were still a bit buzzy (or otherwise immature technologically), so it seemed like a quality sacrifice. (no longer of course; we can probably discuss infinitely whether the mandate helped or hindered the tech).
  - ksenzee 11y ago
    CFLs are still a quality sacrifice if you care about ease of responsible disposal and the quality of the light. It's fascinating to me to see the divide between people who think fluorescent light is fine and people who are repelled by it.
    - pixelcloud 11y ago
      I actually could not stand fluorscent lights for many years (I would get massive headaches). I recently moved into a new place, and after I light burnt out I was surprised to see a CFL. No issues with headaches and a nice warm white.
    - nulltype 11y ago
      CFLs also supposedly have a shorter life than incandescents if turned on and off frequently.

samstave 11y ago

I am just curious what kind of graft/riders/pork may be attached to a bill that is clearly a no-brainer that this is a good idea to pass.