5 ms·

I know exactly where you coming from, ESPECIALLY if you are in the javascript ecosystem. There are a lot of gaps in the whole flow, from what you have mentioned

by hyuuu 11y ago

I know exactly where you coming from, ESPECIALLY if you are in the javascript ecosystem. There are a lot of gaps in the whole flow, from what you have mentioned, build tools, frameworks, standards, architecture (flux? mvc?) Personally, I would suggest, to go at it one at a time. The reason being, these "things" (build tools, frameworks, etc) are there to solve specific problems. If you don't have that problem, then you don't need to understand it, yet. Pick a project and start building, you might find that you need one specific tool, which then you would use that specific tool or you might find yourself having trouble with a certain design then you use a framework that fits your model. This resonates well with @johansch comment. Over time, you will notice a pattern in your knowledge where jumping from one framework to the other is not that difficult because you are jumping from a higher board knowing the frameworks you already used, this applies generally. Be depressed but don't give up, the joy comes when suddenly it all just clicks.

throwaway000020 11y ago
Yes I am in the JavaScript ecosystem. I feel like I'm trying to escape from an Amazonian jungle of errors and things that don't work, trying to find a path that appears and disappears and sometimes is trodden by others and sometimes grown over, always with thorns and strangle vines, dead ends, thousand foot waterfall roadblocks. My food is running out and my feet hurt and by day the sun burns and at night there are the eyes of the beasts watching and waiting for me to fall.
- jsharpe 11y ago
  Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics. Just write the simplest possible app, without frameworks or anything. You'll figure out what the pain points are for you, and suddenly frameworks and tools will make way more sense.
- krisajenkins 11y ago
  Writing JavaScript and feeling you're surrounded by errors is pretty normal. It's a hastily-designed language. There's no getting away from the fact that everything is going to feel a little bit fragile. Just accept it and don't expect perfection.
  - muzmath 11y ago
    Hastily designed for version 0.0.1, this is simply not the case if you are using modern EMCAScript
    - krisajenkins 11y ago
      Is equality still broken? Are maps still broken? Is it still a sporadically whitespace-sensitive language?
      - qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        not AFAIK, but I am not an expert.
        krisajenkins 11y ago
        Leading questions, I'm afraid. Yes, equality is still broken, maps are broken (and in new & interesting ways in EMCAScript 6), and the language is occasionally whitespace-sensitive. JavaScript was hastily designed, has never recovered, and shows no sign of ever fixing the fundamental problems. :-(
        qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        Equality isn't really as broken as people seem to think. And if it bothers you that much, use ===. Yes, it can be annoying, but it works. What do you mean about maps, and whitespace sensitivity? I've never heard anything about that.
        muzmath 11y ago
        Case sensitivity i'm assuming you mean the automatic semi-colon insertion due to a line break after a return statement? I have a hard time seeing this as being a reason to dislike an entire language. Most languages have features to avoid, JavaScript is no different. Many JavaScript developers use linters to avoid the poor `==` feature. I'm unfamiliar with the argument of the `Map` datastructure implementation being broken. Do you have a reference to that claim?
- timr 11y ago
  Speaking as someone with a lot (20+ years) of dev experience, I highly recommend that you switch to a more mature language ecosystem. Other than the fact that it's in every browser, javascript is a horrible place to learn how to code. Javascript development is a total mess. Even very experienced people spend a ton of time trying to navigate that ever-shifting terrain. It's also a very primitive, clumsy language, missing the most basic tools that a developer might want (e.g. first-class includes and packages, for starters). To top it off, in my experience, the average JavaScript developer is quite inexperienced. The good examples of javascript code are outnumbered 100:1 by bad examples. If you're doing web dev, Ruby and Python are good places to start. Pick a language where there are a core set of experienced leaders who have been working for years, and there's a small set of "right" ways to do things.

by hyuuu 11y ago

throwaway000020 11y ago

Yes I am in the JavaScript ecosystem. I feel like I'm trying to escape from an Amazonian jungle of errors and things that don't work, trying to find a path that appears and disappears and sometimes is trodden by others and sometimes grown over, always with thorns and strangle vines, dead ends, thousand foot waterfall roadblocks. My food is running out and my feet hurt and by day the sun burns and at night there are the eyes of the beasts watching and waiting for me to fall.

jsharpe 11y ago
Sometimes it helps to go back to the basics. Just write the simplest possible app, without frameworks or anything. You'll figure out what the pain points are for you, and suddenly frameworks and tools will make way more sense.
krisajenkins 11y ago
Writing JavaScript and feeling you're surrounded by errors is pretty normal. It's a hastily-designed language. There's no getting away from the fact that everything is going to feel a little bit fragile. Just accept it and don't expect perfection.
- muzmath 11y ago
  Hastily designed for version 0.0.1, this is simply not the case if you are using modern EMCAScript
  - krisajenkins 11y ago
    Is equality still broken? Are maps still broken? Is it still a sporadically whitespace-sensitive language?
    - qwertyuiop924 11y ago
      not AFAIK, but I am not an expert.
      - krisajenkins 11y ago
        Leading questions, I'm afraid. Yes, equality is still broken, maps are broken (and in new & interesting ways in EMCAScript 6), and the language is occasionally whitespace-sensitive. JavaScript was hastily designed, has never recovered, and shows no sign of ever fixing the fundamental problems. :-(
        qwertyuiop924 11y ago
        Equality isn't really as broken as people seem to think. And if it bothers you that much, use ===. Yes, it can be annoying, but it works. What do you mean about maps, and whitespace sensitivity? I've never heard anything about that.
        muzmath 11y ago
        Case sensitivity i'm assuming you mean the automatic semi-colon insertion due to a line break after a return statement? I have a hard time seeing this as being a reason to dislike an entire language. Most languages have features to avoid, JavaScript is no different. Many JavaScript developers use linters to avoid the poor `==` feature. I'm unfamiliar with the argument of the `Map` datastructure implementation being broken. Do you have a reference to that claim?
timr 11y ago
Speaking as someone with a lot (20+ years) of dev experience, I highly recommend that you switch to a more mature language ecosystem. Other than the fact that it's in every browser, javascript is a horrible place to learn how to code. Javascript development is a total mess. Even very experienced people spend a ton of time trying to navigate that ever-shifting terrain. It's also a very primitive, clumsy language, missing the most basic tools that a developer might want (e.g. first-class includes and packages, for starters). To top it off, in my experience, the average JavaScript developer is quite inexperienced. The good examples of javascript code are outnumbered 100:1 by bad examples. If you're doing web dev, Ruby and Python are good places to start. Pick a language where there are a core set of experienced leaders who have been working for years, and there's a small set of "right" ways to do things.