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I'm happy about this and hope there is some truth to this. It would signal to developers that maybe there is a viable third platform for apps. As a user I've l

I'm happy about this and hope there is some truth to this. It would signal to developers that maybe there is a viable third platform for apps. As a user I've long been a tablet fan, I own several iPads and Surface tablets that are still actively used in our family. Until recently I used a Surface Pro 1 for work, I'm now getting a shiny new and fully loaded Surface Pro 4. Using a Surface tablet as a PC (with monitor and keyboard and mouse attached) works very well, as many people have found. But Surface never really competed with iPad as a tablet, purely using touch. I know nobody who uses and likes Metro IE, Windows Mail, reads the newspaper using an app or plays games on it. Except me: I've always felt that the only thing lacking on the Surface to compete as a tablet is good Apps and users willing to invest time learning to use it. People would find it actually is quite nice. Even the doomed Surface RT2 is superior to an iPad for many tasks, once you "get" Metro IE, the keyboard and multitasking gestures. I regularly write comments here on HN using Surface in tablet mode, which is much less fun when I try it on an iPad. When Surface really succeeds in the market, my hope is that the App platform will finally start working. As a developer, the technology and tools feel vastly superior and more productive that those of Android and iOS so I'd be happy to start developing Windows-first again.

csixty4 11y ago
You're going to love your Surface 4. My Surface Pro 2 is overtaking my iPad for exactly the tasks you list: email, browsing, reading news (Flipboard) and playing games. I love that the same machine I use for dev can become my casual tablet in a moment.
- bphogan 11y ago
  I really want to use my Surface for development, but I can't get it to work. Most of the work I do is command-line driven (Ruby, Elixir, Node) and I am so used to Vim that the experience is just awful on Windows. I've installed Cmder which helps a ton, but things are still wonky. And that makes me quite sad.
  - csixty4 11y ago
    What's wonky about it? I installed vim through Chocolatey, but I rarely do more than a few quick edits then :wq my way out of there. Most of my work is done in Atom these days.
MBCook 11y ago
> It would signal to developers that maybe there is a viable third platform for apps. That would be Windows, and it's already here, and already viable.
- Maarten88 11y ago
  > That would be Windows, and it's already here, and already viable. If you mean the Windows Desktop platform then I don't agree. That platform is simply not viable any more. A normal user can't do basic stuff like download a free game and play it like on iOS or Android. Installing anything (even from reputable sites) will infest a Windows PC with viruses and spyware. Windows Store Apps don't have this problem, but the Windows Store has very few quality apps and is lacking in many areas. That must change for Windows to survive.
  - codingthebeach 11y ago
    Interesting ah..perspective. To me, and to most builders, Windows desktops, and OS X / Linux desktops, are far more viable than iOS or Android; not less. Even John Gruber admits that the iOS app store is rotting. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/12/01/sketch-leaves-mac-app-store https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/12/01/sketch-leaves-m... Desktop machines may not be sexy -- unless you happen to like games, your example of choice -- but they're reliable, users understand them, they exist in huge numbers, and they're never going away, because humans will always like large, high-resolution displays, and whatever computing device provides that will be "the desktop" going forward. The comment about "infesting Windows PC with viruses and software" is also inaccurate, and has been since about 2008 or so.
    - widdershins 11y ago
      That article's about the Mac app store, a very different thing to the iOS app store. I don't think Gruber would agree the iOS app store's rotting.
    - Maarten88 11y ago
      > Windows desktops, and OS X / Linux desktops, are far more viable than iOS or Android You mean capable, not viable. I use a big desktop too and prefer that for serious work, but I am not a mainstream user. I know how to secure my PC: I install Visual Studio, Node, Office, Java, Android SDK some utilities and not much else. Ok: I'll also install Minecraft and Steam for my kids. They also prefer the PC over the iPad for serious gaming. But even installing java on a PC is not consumer-safe. I read an article where someone tried installing the top-10 most popular free apps from download.com accepting all defaults: after just 3 the PC was completely hosed. Therefore I advise most normal people to just use an iPad for consumer things.

csixty4 11y ago

You're going to love your Surface 4. My Surface Pro 2 is overtaking my iPad for exactly the tasks you list: email, browsing, reading news (Flipboard) and playing games. I love that the same machine I use for dev can become my casual tablet in a moment.

bphogan 11y ago
I really want to use my Surface for development, but I can't get it to work. Most of the work I do is command-line driven (Ruby, Elixir, Node) and I am so used to Vim that the experience is just awful on Windows. I've installed Cmder which helps a ton, but things are still wonky. And that makes me quite sad.
- csixty4 11y ago
  What's wonky about it? I installed vim through Chocolatey, but I rarely do more than a few quick edits then :wq my way out of there. Most of my work is done in Atom these days.

MBCook 11y ago

> It would signal to developers that maybe there is a viable third platform for apps. That would be Windows, and it's already here, and already viable.

Maarten88 11y ago
> That would be Windows, and it's already here, and already viable. If you mean the Windows Desktop platform then I don't agree. That platform is simply not viable any more. A normal user can't do basic stuff like download a free game and play it like on iOS or Android. Installing anything (even from reputable sites) will infest a Windows PC with viruses and spyware. Windows Store Apps don't have this problem, but the Windows Store has very few quality apps and is lacking in many areas. That must change for Windows to survive.
- codingthebeach 11y ago
  Interesting ah..perspective. To me, and to most builders, Windows desktops, and OS X / Linux desktops, are far more viable than iOS or Android; not less. Even John Gruber admits that the iOS app store is rotting. https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/12/01/sketch-leaves-mac-app-store https://daringfireball.net/linked/2015/12/01/sketch-leaves-m... Desktop machines may not be sexy -- unless you happen to like games, your example of choice -- but they're reliable, users understand them, they exist in huge numbers, and they're never going away, because humans will always like large, high-resolution displays, and whatever computing device provides that will be "the desktop" going forward. The comment about "infesting Windows PC with viruses and software" is also inaccurate, and has been since about 2008 or so.
  - widdershins 11y ago
    That article's about the Mac app store, a very different thing to the iOS app store. I don't think Gruber would agree the iOS app store's rotting.
  - Maarten88 11y ago
    > Windows desktops, and OS X / Linux desktops, are far more viable than iOS or Android You mean capable, not viable. I use a big desktop too and prefer that for serious work, but I am not a mainstream user. I know how to secure my PC: I install Visual Studio, Node, Office, Java, Android SDK some utilities and not much else. Ok: I'll also install Minecraft and Steam for my kids. They also prefer the PC over the iPad for serious gaming. But even installing java on a PC is not consumer-safe. I read an article where someone tried installing the top-10 most popular free apps from download.com accepting all defaults: after just 3 the PC was completely hosed. Therefore I advise most normal people to just use an iPad for consumer things.