7 ms·

I've seen others knock down this report already, but I'm having trouble finding a link. What those other articles noted is that this is US-only, online-only sal

by dangoor 11y ago

I've seen others knock down this report already, but I'm having trouble finding a link. What those other articles noted is that this is US-only, online-only sales (and I believe from people who opted in to provide this data). Apple sells a lot of iPads at their own stores, and certainly outside of the US. Ahh, here's one of the sites that did a take down of this report: https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/ios/62854/so-did-surface-really-outsell-ipad-in-october https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/ios/62854/so-did-surface-rea...

thinkling 11y ago
There are so many questions about this, not just the share of sales happening in Apple Stores but also whether 1010data's tech that monitors online shopper behavior on the client side works for OS X Safari and iOS Mobile Safari. They may be missing a skewed set of shoppers who are most likely to buy iPads.
bdcravens 11y ago
I wonder how much of the volume are first purchases vs replacements vs additional devices? I've owned a few iPads (currently have an Air 2 and a Pro), and I wouldn't mind a Surface. As it's not a primary device, I doubt I'd want to pay full retail, so I'm more likely to wait for an online deal.
sergers 11y ago
i wouldnt really call that a take down/knock down in your terms. -noone else claims to have seen this early release of this report to be able to refute the data.+ -yes this is US online shopping only data anyalysis, this outlined in the original article giving background on 1010data that this article references[0] [0] http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-beats-apple-online-tablet-sales http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-beats-apple-online-tab... it is based on data provided to 1010data from consumers as well as data analysis from the "top 100" online sellers. the biggest online seller for ipads i assume is the Apple store, which probably isnt aggregating data to 3rd parties. i wouldnt be suprised though if Surface+Windows 10 tablets (xiaomi mi pad 2) start to dominate the market. most people i know who own a ipad, nearly everyone owns one, isnt looking to replace their ipads with the newer versions. if its working, no major features/changes requiring an upgrade to a newer ipad. everyone looking to get a new device is looking at the surface/windows 10 as a new tablet and even a laptop replacement.
- MBCook 11y ago
  > i wouldnt really call that a take down/knock down in your terms. It seems rather flawed to me. If your data includes the "top 100 online sellers" but not what is probably the THE top online seller of THE top product in category (at least before the SurfaceBook) then your data is flawed to draw your conclusion. Now we could debate if the Surface Book is a tablet (it has a touch screen and can run without a keyboard) or isn't (it runs full windows and can't last long without the battery in the keyboard)... but I don't see how you could ever claim a report about tablet sales to be useful if you don't have at least a good estimate about Apple's sales numbers.
- rconti 11y ago
  Paul Thurrott is known as a serious Microsoft fanboy/apologist (he used to run or still runs the Thurrott SuperSite for Windows), so his 'knock down' carries a bit of weight.
  - Ezhik 11y ago
    He's like the John Gruber of Microsoft
  - sremani 11y ago
    Thurrott covers Microsoft but to straight out call him fanboy is for simple minded. He is and has been critical of Microsoft and its various products.
    - rconti 11y ago
      Perhaps his tone has changed in the past decade or so.
KirinDave 11y ago
The knock against this this is that it's a very clickbaity title. If it's true, it's a big deal, but the title made it to be a BIGGER deal by implying it's all sales. Which would be huge, but also absurd. The idea that Surface is selling well should be taken away even if the article is clickbaity. By all accounts, MS is hitting supply walls with Skylake before they meet demand or cross some sort of arbitrary sales goal they want to maintain [0]. They're sold out everywhere and backordered on the SP4 and SB. I'm glad I pre-ordered! And the MS devkit? It's.. um.. I mean I know that people will be shocked to hear it but it's not only really damn good these days, but it's open source. Look at how you do Async programming on Windows Phone with C# or JavaScript, and what kinda performance gains you get. Check out the MS GitHub and see how much of themselves they've put out there and opened to the community. It's a big deal. I'm actually enthusiastic to join their dev community. [0]: http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-core-i5-i7-processors-global-shortage/ http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-core-i5-i7-processors-glob... http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/there-will-be-a-major-shortage-of-skylake-cpus-until-end-of-november/036847 http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/there-will-be-a-major-sh... http://www.winbeta.org/news/rumor-surface-book-surface-pro-4-shipments-delayed-due-intel-skylake-shortages http://www.winbeta.org/news/rumor-surface-book-surface-pro-4...
- alexkavon 11y ago
  MS devkit? Like this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/br211377.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/br211377.asp...
  - KirinDave 11y ago
    C#, F#, JavaScript, TypeScript, and their development toolchain. Every Surface Book ships with in-the-box high performance virtualization (although Linux support for being a client OS for high performance networking is a bit spotty). They're doing things like demoing debugging C# executables running inside docker containers on Linux, from Visual Studio in the host Win10 VM. Additional heresy incoming: Powershell is extremely good as well, although a very different vision of the world than bash and its successors.
partiallypro 11y ago
Considering the Surface tablet isn't in as many markets as the iPad, I personally assumed they meant U.S. only, and the title already states "online sales." This is good for Microsoft, however let's also note that tablet sales have been falling over all. I do think hybrids are the future, and Apple is missing that boat though. The iPad Pro is a poor attempt that honestly, I would have expected from the Microsoft of old. Panos Panay is doing a great job with the Surface line, though I was a little disappointed with the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book launches, both of which were plagued with firmware and driver bugs.

by dangoor 11y ago

thinkling 11y ago

There are so many questions about this, not just the share of sales happening in Apple Stores but also whether 1010data's tech that monitors online shopper behavior on the client side works for OS X Safari and iOS Mobile Safari. They may be missing a skewed set of shoppers who are most likely to buy iPads.

bdcravens 11y ago

I wonder how much of the volume are first purchases vs replacements vs additional devices? I've owned a few iPads (currently have an Air 2 and a Pro), and I wouldn't mind a Surface. As it's not a primary device, I doubt I'd want to pay full retail, so I'm more likely to wait for an online deal.

sergers 11y ago

i wouldnt really call that a take down/knock down in your terms. -noone else claims to have seen this early release of this report to be able to refute the data.+ -yes this is US online shopping only data anyalysis, this outlined in the original article giving background on 1010data that this article references[0] [0] http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-beats-apple-online-tablet-sales http://www.winbeta.org/news/microsoft-beats-apple-online-tab... it is based on data provided to 1010data from consumers as well as data analysis from the "top 100" online sellers. the biggest online seller for ipads i assume is the Apple store, which probably isnt aggregating data to 3rd parties. i wouldnt be suprised though if Surface+Windows 10 tablets (xiaomi mi pad 2) start to dominate the market. most people i know who own a ipad, nearly everyone owns one, isnt looking to replace their ipads with the newer versions. if its working, no major features/changes requiring an upgrade to a newer ipad. everyone looking to get a new device is looking at the surface/windows 10 as a new tablet and even a laptop replacement.

MBCook 11y ago
> i wouldnt really call that a take down/knock down in your terms. It seems rather flawed to me. If your data includes the "top 100 online sellers" but not what is probably the THE top online seller of THE top product in category (at least before the SurfaceBook) then your data is flawed to draw your conclusion. Now we could debate if the Surface Book is a tablet (it has a touch screen and can run without a keyboard) or isn't (it runs full windows and can't last long without the battery in the keyboard)... but I don't see how you could ever claim a report about tablet sales to be useful if you don't have at least a good estimate about Apple's sales numbers.
rconti 11y ago
Paul Thurrott is known as a serious Microsoft fanboy/apologist (he used to run or still runs the Thurrott SuperSite for Windows), so his 'knock down' carries a bit of weight.
- Ezhik 11y ago
  He's like the John Gruber of Microsoft
- sremani 11y ago
  Thurrott covers Microsoft but to straight out call him fanboy is for simple minded. He is and has been critical of Microsoft and its various products.
  - rconti 11y ago
    Perhaps his tone has changed in the past decade or so.

KirinDave 11y ago

The knock against this this is that it's a very clickbaity title. If it's true, it's a big deal, but the title made it to be a BIGGER deal by implying it's all sales. Which would be huge, but also absurd. The idea that Surface is selling well should be taken away even if the article is clickbaity. By all accounts, MS is hitting supply walls with Skylake before they meet demand or cross some sort of arbitrary sales goal they want to maintain [0]. They're sold out everywhere and backordered on the SP4 and SB. I'm glad I pre-ordered! And the MS devkit? It's.. um.. I mean I know that people will be shocked to hear it but it's not only really damn good these days, but it's open source. Look at how you do Async programming on Windows Phone with C# or JavaScript, and what kinda performance gains you get. Check out the MS GitHub and see how much of themselves they've put out there and opened to the community. It's a big deal. I'm actually enthusiastic to join their dev community. [0]: http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-core-i5-i7-processors-global-shortage/ http://wccftech.com/intel-skylake-core-i5-i7-processors-glob... http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/there-will-be-a-major-shortage-of-skylake-cpus-until-end-of-november/036847 http://www.pcr-online.biz/news/read/there-will-be-a-major-sh... http://www.winbeta.org/news/rumor-surface-book-surface-pro-4-shipments-delayed-due-intel-skylake-shortages http://www.winbeta.org/news/rumor-surface-book-surface-pro-4...

alexkavon 11y ago
MS devkit? Like this: https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/br211377.aspx https://msdn.microsoft.com/library/windows/apps/br211377.asp...
- KirinDave 11y ago
  C#, F#, JavaScript, TypeScript, and their development toolchain. Every Surface Book ships with in-the-box high performance virtualization (although Linux support for being a client OS for high performance networking is a bit spotty). They're doing things like demoing debugging C# executables running inside docker containers on Linux, from Visual Studio in the host Win10 VM. Additional heresy incoming: Powershell is extremely good as well, although a very different vision of the world than bash and its successors.

partiallypro 11y ago

Considering the Surface tablet isn't in as many markets as the iPad, I personally assumed they meant U.S. only, and the title already states "online sales." This is good for Microsoft, however let's also note that tablet sales have been falling over all. I do think hybrids are the future, and Apple is missing that boat though. The iPad Pro is a poor attempt that honestly, I would have expected from the Microsoft of old. Panos Panay is doing a great job with the Surface line, though I was a little disappointed with the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book launches, both of which were plagued with firmware and driver bugs.