4 ms·

It seems like they've done all of this at a surprisingly low cost. 1 million assembly hours at 370 million project cost = 370 Euros/hour (assembly + management

It seems like they've done all of this at a surprisingly low cost. 1 million assembly hours at 370 million project cost = 370 Euros/hour (assembly + management overhead costs).

gnarbarian 11y ago
I bet a lot of the work was performed by academic indentured servants.
- Phlarp 11y ago
  Academic indentured servants that absolutely knew this would be the case but were no doubt tripping over each other to get a spot on the project.
  - Wingman4l7 11y ago
    That doesn't make the institutionalized exploitation of their labor any more ethical or palatable.
detaro 11y ago
I think one important price factor is that this is "only" a plasma containment experiment and will only run Helium and Hydrogen, not the Deuterium-Tritium-mixture needed for energy-generating fusion. This means it generates way less neutron radiation, which in turn means less need for shielding and easier working conditions on and close to the machinery, avoids material degradation, ... Also, if I understand German sources correctly the 370 million doesn't include wages of the people working there (maybe external construction contractors, but not the effort by MPI personnel). (EDIT: found a quote of ~1 billion EUR as cost for the entire project since 1995)
- k4l3 11y ago
  Good call on the actual price. Still 1/13th the current cost of the not-yet-operational ITER... Makes me wonder if the stellerator concept will be more feasible in the long run.
  - fabian2k 11y ago
    I don't think you can draw any conclusions from comparing the price of Wendelstein 7-X and ITER. ITER is much larger than Wendelstein, it looks like the magnets in ITER are roughly 10 times as heavy, so ITER needs much more material than Wendelstein.
  - lmm 11y ago
    This is an earlier-stage demonstration than ITER. A fairer comparison would be with the cost of JET.
kleiba 11y ago
Wow. At my university group, we're continuously trying really hard to get funding for our research, where we ask for less than 1 percent of that budget. It's really, really hard to get because the landscape is quite competitive. But such a project, if we'd ever get one, could fund a co-worker and me for three years plus a bunch of partners at other universities.
- riffraff 11y ago
  3.7m euros would last 3 years? That seems... quite expensive.
  - kleiba 11y ago
    It does, that's why typically we only ask for less than that in our grant proposals.
funkyy 11y ago
The assembly was done by Polish engineers mainly. I bet they were doctors paid by university, but even if not, top world class engineer from Poland will not cost more than €30/hour. Add management overhead of another that much. This is not a lot.

It seems like they've done all of this at a surprisingly low cost. 1 million assembly hours at 370 million project cost = 370 Euros/hour (assembly + management overhead costs).

gnarbarian 11y ago

I bet a lot of the work was performed by academic indentured servants.

Phlarp 11y ago
Academic indentured servants that absolutely knew this would be the case but were no doubt tripping over each other to get a spot on the project.
- Wingman4l7 11y ago
  That doesn't make the institutionalized exploitation of their labor any more ethical or palatable.

detaro 11y ago

I think one important price factor is that this is "only" a plasma containment experiment and will only run Helium and Hydrogen, not the Deuterium-Tritium-mixture needed for energy-generating fusion. This means it generates way less neutron radiation, which in turn means less need for shielding and easier working conditions on and close to the machinery, avoids material degradation, ... Also, if I understand German sources correctly the 370 million doesn't include wages of the people working there (maybe external construction contractors, but not the effort by MPI personnel). (EDIT: found a quote of ~1 billion EUR as cost for the entire project since 1995)

k4l3 11y ago
Good call on the actual price. Still 1/13th the current cost of the not-yet-operational ITER... Makes me wonder if the stellerator concept will be more feasible in the long run.
- fabian2k 11y ago
  I don't think you can draw any conclusions from comparing the price of Wendelstein 7-X and ITER. ITER is much larger than Wendelstein, it looks like the magnets in ITER are roughly 10 times as heavy, so ITER needs much more material than Wendelstein.
- lmm 11y ago
  This is an earlier-stage demonstration than ITER. A fairer comparison would be with the cost of JET.

kleiba 11y ago

Wow. At my university group, we're continuously trying really hard to get funding for our research, where we ask for less than 1 percent of that budget. It's really, really hard to get because the landscape is quite competitive. But such a project, if we'd ever get one, could fund a co-worker and me for three years plus a bunch of partners at other universities.

riffraff 11y ago
3.7m euros would last 3 years? That seems... quite expensive.
- kleiba 11y ago
  It does, that's why typically we only ask for less than that in our grant proposals.

funkyy 11y ago

The assembly was done by Polish engineers mainly. I bet they were doctors paid by university, but even if not, top world class engineer from Poland will not cost more than €30/hour. Add management overhead of another that much. This is not a lot.