10 ms·

Arrest of Senior Adviser to the Operator of the “Silk Road” Website

35 points by dbcooper 11y ago

xorcist 11y ago
I'm surprised to see that Ulbricht thought government issued id was the viable solution to the spam/troll/infiltrator problem on the dark web. I would have expected more experiments with reputation based systems and blockchain based identity (such as namecoin). But identity is hard, I get that. Probably the hardest problem these sites face. (Just for curiosity's sake, does anyone with a bit more insight know if collecting passports is a common occurrence in other dark markets?)
laarc 11y ago
Finally, CLARK also advised Ulbricht on tactics to thwart efforts by law enforcement to investigate Silk Road. In that vein, CLARK repeatedly advocated the use of intimidation and violence to keep members of the Silk Road support staff from cooperating with law enforcement. In one such conversation, in which CLARK and Ulbricht discussed “track[ing] down” a certain Silk Road employee to ensure that he had not gone “[o]ff the rails,” CLARK commented, “[D]ude, we’re criminal drug dealers – what line shouldn’t we cross?” Friendly fellow. I've heard that the site's community felt like they were a part of a movement. Did they know the operators felt this way? Analysis of the community in general seems interesting. I wonder if their forums were archived anywhere.
- uououuttt 11y ago
  I know HN user gwern did some work partially documenting the forums. It was an interesting place to be, especially towards the beginning. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement.
  - Absentinsomniac 11y ago
    I still feel like there were lines most didn't want crossed, however.
    - chillwaves 11y ago
      Exactly. Otherwise you become the cartels in Mexico.
  - laarc 11y ago
    Setting aside personal bias: Kudos for admitting that. It takes a lot of courage to put your beliefs out in the open, or even to talk about the beliefs of a group you once identified with. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement. Could you help me understand that mindset? It seems like violence is one reason we as a species took hundreds of thousands of years to discover (or at least to harness) the scientific method. For the first time, we're now in a position to detect a big rock headed straight for Earth, and then actually have any nonzero chance of doing something to change the situation. Studying history, one plausible hypothesis we're in this situation might be: Funnel all of the smartest people together, and figure out a way to let them work together for a very long time on the same kinds of problems. And to let smart people work together, it's necessary to have systems in place to suppress violence. In short, law enforcement. There have been abuses of power, but on the whole, law enforcement seems like one of the main reasons we're well-off today. So that's where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to be overbearing or say X is bad and Y is good -- I apologize if I'm failing. It's just the opposite: I'm interested, and open-minded, to understand how various intelligent people could conclude "It's us or them, and if you're cooperating with law enforcement, you deserve violence." Would you help me to understand the community's viewpoint? Was there any nuance, or is it as simple as "they are traitors, therefore X" mindset? There must be something if so many intelligent people somehow started to believe this, right? If someone reading this feels like replying anonymously, make a new HN account using Tor. Your reply will be marked [dead] to begin with, but those of us with showdead enabled will see them. The community can now vouch for dead-but-thoughtful comments, which makes them visible to everyone. This is the type of topic that usually devolves into a flamewar, but maybe thoughtful conversation has a chance.
    - Absentinsomniac 11y ago
      I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action to prevent this. In general, I don't remember the mindset actually being "pro violence" in an abstract sense, but it was hostile to law enforcement because law enforcement represented the end of ones freedom. And they weren't wrong. The drug war was (and is) a very real thing. I think it goes without saying that most were for the freedom to consume, produce, distribute, and use any drugs they see fit. Law enforcement were encroaching on that freedom. They were the aggressors coming in and disrupting a pretty peaceful process. In many cases, unprovoked. I don't think that's much of a misrepresentation.
  - mkelley82 11y ago
    I am reminded of the quote ""Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
    - tedunangst 11y ago
      Give me liberty or give them death?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
dmix 11y ago
It seems an independent researcher who goes by the name "La Moustache" on Twitter managed to correctly ID Variety Jones. > The research conducted by an independent researcher by the name of “La Moustache” determined that Variety Jones is likely Roger or Thomas Clark. > [...] The posts, some containing as much as 3,000 words, explain how “Plural of Mongoose” was arrested after being found running an underground cannabis business in UK, amongst other related crimes. At one point, Jones even identifies himself as “Roger Thomas Clark,” which were the same names uncovered by researcher La Moustache. Despite these revelations the FBI have not yet given any response as to their next course of action. http://silkroaddrugs.org/dpr-mentor-to-be-back-online/ http://silkroaddrugs.org/dpr-mentor-to-be-back-online/ I'm curious if the FBI pieced this together themselves or was it La Moustache who figured it out? Edit: Also of note...in the criminal complaint they said he is a Canadian national born in 1961... making him 54 years old. http://www.scribd.com/doc/292196413/US-v-Roger-Thomas-Clark-Complaint#scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/292196413/US-v-Roger-Thomas-Clark-...
- heed 11y ago
  I found this analysis of VJ's identity on lamoustache's Twitter feed: http://antilop.cc/sr/index.html#jones http://antilop.cc/sr/index.html#jones Pretty interesting read.
- probdist 11y ago
  Wow the complaint has some bombshells: In particular I'd highlight this as pretty crazy: (screenshot from scribd because I don't have a plaintext copy) http://imgur.com/kaFSSzl http://imgur.com/kaFSSzl One of the Customer Support Staff Members on the Silk Road was a homeland security investigator. Wow.
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    What's crazy about undercover agents ?
dang 11y ago
Other articles: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680330, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680175.
rajacombinator 11y ago
Mega facepalm after I click through and read "Preet Bharara". Can we just make this guy a Senator already?
- psykovsky 11y ago
  ...because justice and politics mix oh so well... the results are astounding!
tacojuan 11y ago
No mention of the extortion/blackmail VJ claimed to be facing from some rogue FBI agent?

35 points by dbcooper 11y ago

I'm surprised to see that Ulbricht thought government issued id was the viable solution to the spam/troll/infiltrator problem on the dark web. I would have expected more experiments with reputation based systems and blockchain based identity (such as namecoin). But identity is hard, I get that. Probably the hardest problem these sites face. (Just for curiosity's sake, does anyone with a bit more insight know if collecting passports is a common occurrence in other dark markets?)

laarc 11y ago

Finally, CLARK also advised Ulbricht on tactics to thwart efforts by law enforcement to investigate Silk Road. In that vein, CLARK repeatedly advocated the use of intimidation and violence to keep members of the Silk Road support staff from cooperating with law enforcement. In one such conversation, in which CLARK and Ulbricht discussed “track[ing] down” a certain Silk Road employee to ensure that he had not gone “[o]ff the rails,” CLARK commented, “[D]ude, we’re criminal drug dealers – what line shouldn’t we cross?” Friendly fellow. I've heard that the site's community felt like they were a part of a movement. Did they know the operators felt this way? Analysis of the community in general seems interesting. I wonder if their forums were archived anywhere.

uououuttt 11y ago
I know HN user gwern did some work partially documenting the forums. It was an interesting place to be, especially towards the beginning. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement.
- Absentinsomniac 11y ago
  I still feel like there were lines most didn't want crossed, however.
  - chillwaves 11y ago
    Exactly. Otherwise you become the cartels in Mexico.
- laarc 11y ago
  Setting aside personal bias: Kudos for admitting that. It takes a lot of courage to put your beliefs out in the open, or even to talk about the beliefs of a group you once identified with. I feel that most of us would've supported violence against those cooperating with law enforcement. Could you help me understand that mindset? It seems like violence is one reason we as a species took hundreds of thousands of years to discover (or at least to harness) the scientific method. For the first time, we're now in a position to detect a big rock headed straight for Earth, and then actually have any nonzero chance of doing something to change the situation. Studying history, one plausible hypothesis we're in this situation might be: Funnel all of the smartest people together, and figure out a way to let them work together for a very long time on the same kinds of problems. And to let smart people work together, it's necessary to have systems in place to suppress violence. In short, law enforcement. There have been abuses of power, but on the whole, law enforcement seems like one of the main reasons we're well-off today. So that's where I'm coming from. I'm not trying to be overbearing or say X is bad and Y is good -- I apologize if I'm failing. It's just the opposite: I'm interested, and open-minded, to understand how various intelligent people could conclude "It's us or them, and if you're cooperating with law enforcement, you deserve violence." Would you help me to understand the community's viewpoint? Was there any nuance, or is it as simple as "they are traitors, therefore X" mindset? There must be something if so many intelligent people somehow started to believe this, right? If someone reading this feels like replying anonymously, make a new HN account using Tor. Your reply will be marked [dead] to begin with, but those of us with showdead enabled will see them. The community can now vouch for dead-but-thoughtful comments, which makes them visible to everyone. This is the type of topic that usually devolves into a flamewar, but maybe thoughtful conversation has a chance.
  - Absentinsomniac 11y ago
    I can try to give a reply. You have to remember what SR was for. These were people who were not only using SR, but active in the community as well. They were mostly engaged in illegal activities, a good deal of whom were active offline as well taking part in illegal activities. Law enforcement is a constant point of anxiety for every single person involved in this process. If someone who you thought you could trust is now actively threatening your freedom (or access to a substance, which is also a form of freedom), you take action to prevent this. In general, I don't remember the mindset actually being "pro violence" in an abstract sense, but it was hostile to law enforcement because law enforcement represented the end of ones freedom. And they weren't wrong. The drug war was (and is) a very real thing. I think it goes without saying that most were for the freedom to consume, produce, distribute, and use any drugs they see fit. Law enforcement were encroaching on that freedom. They were the aggressors coming in and disrupting a pretty peaceful process. In many cases, unprovoked. I don't think that's much of a misrepresentation.
- mkelley82 11y ago
  I am reminded of the quote ""Give me liberty, or give me death!" - Patrick Henry
  - tedunangst 11y ago
    Give me liberty or give them death?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

dmix 11y ago

It seems an independent researcher who goes by the name "La Moustache" on Twitter managed to correctly ID Variety Jones. > The research conducted by an independent researcher by the name of “La Moustache” determined that Variety Jones is likely Roger or Thomas Clark. > [...] The posts, some containing as much as 3,000 words, explain how “Plural of Mongoose” was arrested after being found running an underground cannabis business in UK, amongst other related crimes. At one point, Jones even identifies himself as “Roger Thomas Clark,” which were the same names uncovered by researcher La Moustache. Despite these revelations the FBI have not yet given any response as to their next course of action. http://silkroaddrugs.org/dpr-mentor-to-be-back-online/ http://silkroaddrugs.org/dpr-mentor-to-be-back-online/ I'm curious if the FBI pieced this together themselves or was it La Moustache who figured it out? Edit: Also of note...in the criminal complaint they said he is a Canadian national born in 1961... making him 54 years old. http://www.scribd.com/doc/292196413/US-v-Roger-Thomas-Clark-Complaint#scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/292196413/US-v-Roger-Thomas-Clark-...

heed 11y ago
I found this analysis of VJ's identity on lamoustache's Twitter feed: http://antilop.cc/sr/index.html#jones http://antilop.cc/sr/index.html#jones Pretty interesting read.
probdist 11y ago
Wow the complaint has some bombshells: In particular I'd highlight this as pretty crazy: (screenshot from scribd because I don't have a plaintext copy) http://imgur.com/kaFSSzl http://imgur.com/kaFSSzl One of the Customer Support Staff Members on the Silk Road was a homeland security investigator. Wow.
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  What's crazy about undercover agents ?

dang 11y ago

Other articles: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680330 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680330, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680175 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10680175.

rajacombinator 11y ago

Mega facepalm after I click through and read "Preet Bharara". Can we just make this guy a Senator already?

psykovsky 11y ago
...because justice and politics mix oh so well... the results are astounding!

tacojuan 11y ago

No mention of the extortion/blackmail VJ claimed to be facing from some rogue FBI agent?