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Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? This is a pretty ridiculous comment you're making here. Freedom of speech and expre

Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? This is a pretty ridiculous comment you're making here. Freedom of speech and expression has, is, and always will be more important than one's personal comfort. That said, these people are just as free to voice these small minded, selfish complaints as I am to ignore them.

coldpie 11y ago
> Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? No one is arguing for this.
- DanBC 11y ago
  While I tend to agree with you there are a bunch of things that are not being taught because students have said their feelings are important. Suicide dropped from sociology lessons: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dropped-sociology-exam-a-level http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dro... (A-level students are 16 to 18 years old) I agree that teaching suicide to children is going to be difficult, and that most of the reason is about actual harm, not feelings - the increased risk of death or harm to the students from the Wurther Effect or stigmatising views. But all of that can be worked around. You provide a mix of comprehensive support of different types to students; you promote a culture of inclusion an sharing in that room. Suicide is really important. It's the leading cause of death of men aged between 15 and 49 in the UK. Rates are increasing. NHS cuts mean it's harder to get good quality support. Appropriately talking about suicide probably doesn't raise risk, and may well lower risk. So, it's a shame that this topic got cut from the syllabus. There are other examples in this thread of law students not learning about rape law because it's too distressing to hear. That shows a misunderstanding of what PTSD survivors want when they talk about trigger warnings. The point is not "I should be able to live my life and avoid every mention of this thing that causes me significant distress", but "I am currently vulnerable, but getting support, and I need a little bit of warning not so I can avoid the subject, but so that I can make sure I have the little bit of extra support I need to keep me safe". However: the people on the other side are mostly fucking hateful cunts who scream "What about my freedom of speech?" while seeking to silence the people they're screaming at.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    Insightful comment, and I agree that's a difficult problem. I think there's room for a conversation about that, and I'm not sure where I fall. If people made their arguments like this instead of "We must protect bullies/racists!" I'd find them much more convincing :)
- brightball 11y ago
  Yes...actually they are. That's what a trigger warning is. It's insisting that a declaration be given in advance to remove someone from the possibility of having to cope with something uncomfortable. A safe space is an echo chamber. If we really want to know the cause of these tendencies, we need only look to the internet. You used to need to find a group of people to hang out with in your area and in doing so you'd associate with the social norms of that group, whatever they may be. Now you craft your friend's list on Facebook with people who agree with you and reinforce you. If you've ever clicked the "unfollow" button you're guilty of this. This reinforcement leads to an echo chamber. As a culture, we're effectively putting canvasing over logic and reason in all areas. That's essentially what you get from a social feed that reinforces your views - constant news that agrees with you...which is just canvasing yourself. Canvasing feeds on feelings and reaction over reason. You look at just about any socially convenient topic and you'll see this. Just as an example, let's look at diversity in tech since this is Hacker News. We're more than willing to accost the entire industry for lack of diversity as if it's somehow their fault. Yet most of these companies are falling all over themselves to hire people and we aren't hearing stories about discrimination or people not getting jobs...we just see the numbers and assume something is wrong. We're not allowed to consider that people might tend to just be wired a certain way. Men's brains work differently than women's. Certain problems might be interesting to certain types of people and not to other. Instead we create a cause and a problem that must be fixed immediately. We look at it from an emotional perspective rather than looking at all of the factors involved to just see if it happens to just be a general tendency or a real problem. A problem is more marketable...so we go with that instead.
  - ebola1717 11y ago
    No, a trigger warning is saying "heads up, this might be especially uncomfortable for some people." Not unlike "heads up, this video has graphic and explicit violence", or "heads up, we're meeting that ex you just broke up with for dinner in a few hours."
    - brightball 11y ago
      "It's insisting that a declaration be given in advance to remove someone from the possibility of having to cope with something uncomfortable." Which is different...how?
caseysoftware 11y ago
You're wasting your time. Notice the response to your comment was "No one is arguing for this" instead of saying what he/she is actually arguing for. Your time will be better spent picking the fuzzies off your favorite blanket.

coldpie 11y ago

> Are you suggesting people should not learn to cope with uncomfortable ideas? No one is arguing for this.

DanBC 11y ago
While I tend to agree with you there are a bunch of things that are not being taught because students have said their feelings are important. Suicide dropped from sociology lessons: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dropped-sociology-exam-a-level http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/jun/15/suicide-dro... (A-level students are 16 to 18 years old) I agree that teaching suicide to children is going to be difficult, and that most of the reason is about actual harm, not feelings - the increased risk of death or harm to the students from the Wurther Effect or stigmatising views. But all of that can be worked around. You provide a mix of comprehensive support of different types to students; you promote a culture of inclusion an sharing in that room. Suicide is really important. It's the leading cause of death of men aged between 15 and 49 in the UK. Rates are increasing. NHS cuts mean it's harder to get good quality support. Appropriately talking about suicide probably doesn't raise risk, and may well lower risk. So, it's a shame that this topic got cut from the syllabus. There are other examples in this thread of law students not learning about rape law because it's too distressing to hear. That shows a misunderstanding of what PTSD survivors want when they talk about trigger warnings. The point is not "I should be able to live my life and avoid every mention of this thing that causes me significant distress", but "I am currently vulnerable, but getting support, and I need a little bit of warning not so I can avoid the subject, but so that I can make sure I have the little bit of extra support I need to keep me safe". However: the people on the other side are mostly fucking hateful cunts who scream "What about my freedom of speech?" while seeking to silence the people they're screaming at.
- coldpie 11y ago
  Insightful comment, and I agree that's a difficult problem. I think there's room for a conversation about that, and I'm not sure where I fall. If people made their arguments like this instead of "We must protect bullies/racists!" I'd find them much more convincing :)
brightball 11y ago
Yes...actually they are. That's what a trigger warning is. It's insisting that a declaration be given in advance to remove someone from the possibility of having to cope with something uncomfortable. A safe space is an echo chamber. If we really want to know the cause of these tendencies, we need only look to the internet. You used to need to find a group of people to hang out with in your area and in doing so you'd associate with the social norms of that group, whatever they may be. Now you craft your friend's list on Facebook with people who agree with you and reinforce you. If you've ever clicked the "unfollow" button you're guilty of this. This reinforcement leads to an echo chamber. As a culture, we're effectively putting canvasing over logic and reason in all areas. That's essentially what you get from a social feed that reinforces your views - constant news that agrees with you...which is just canvasing yourself. Canvasing feeds on feelings and reaction over reason. You look at just about any socially convenient topic and you'll see this. Just as an example, let's look at diversity in tech since this is Hacker News. We're more than willing to accost the entire industry for lack of diversity as if it's somehow their fault. Yet most of these companies are falling all over themselves to hire people and we aren't hearing stories about discrimination or people not getting jobs...we just see the numbers and assume something is wrong. We're not allowed to consider that people might tend to just be wired a certain way. Men's brains work differently than women's. Certain problems might be interesting to certain types of people and not to other. Instead we create a cause and a problem that must be fixed immediately. We look at it from an emotional perspective rather than looking at all of the factors involved to just see if it happens to just be a general tendency or a real problem. A problem is more marketable...so we go with that instead.
- ebola1717 11y ago
  No, a trigger warning is saying "heads up, this might be especially uncomfortable for some people." Not unlike "heads up, this video has graphic and explicit violence", or "heads up, we're meeting that ex you just broke up with for dinner in a few hours."
  - brightball 11y ago
    "It's insisting that a declaration be given in advance to remove someone from the possibility of having to cope with something uncomfortable." Which is different...how?

caseysoftware 11y ago

You're wasting your time. Notice the response to your comment was "No one is arguing for this" instead of saying what he/she is actually arguing for. Your time will be better spent picking the fuzzies off your favorite blanket.