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The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish

by Juliate 11y ago

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

coldpie 11y ago
> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality No one is arguing for this.
- jerf 11y ago
  Yes, they are. As soon as you claim they are, they scurry away claiming that's not what they mean, but as soon as you say "OK then" and move on, they turn right around and it's all about their feelings again. It is very much a part of the modern PC platform that if someone "feels" assaulted, they are, and you must believe them or you are blaming the victim. This is why accusations are as good as conviction in places where PC reigns supreme, because the fact of accusation is itself proof of feeling, and that's it, case closed. Don't fall for this transparent rhetorical ploy. Arguments that only appear transiently to dismiss one point, then disappear into the ether immediately after, are not arguments, just rhetoric. (This is a general point that applies in many places, actually.)
  - coldpie 11y ago
    In what case is someone doing this at the cost of "truth/understanding of reality"?
- adventured 11y ago
  In fact it's being very openly argued all over the place in US culture today. The recent famous video of the Yale professor that was trying to talk rationally to the irrational students around him - it was all about the students claiming they had a right to not be offended, and the notion that their feelings trumped freedom of speech.
  - coldpie 11y ago
    I'm sorry, I don't know what video you're referring to. What rational point was the professor trying to make? That white people dressing in racially-charged costumes should not be shunned?
    - Tenhundfeld 11y ago
      I think this is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 Along with some NYT coverage on this general topic: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-generation-becomes-less-tolerant-of-free-speech http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-gener... This issue of students complaining about trigger warnings and the need for safe spaces certainly seems to be increasingly prevalent, but that could just be due to the media giving it more attention.
      - coldpie 11y ago
        Interesting that according to that NYTimes link, offensive speech is considered protected "free speech," while people objecting to offensive speech does not qualify. I have just as much a right to tell you you're an asshole and not welcome near me as you do to say offensive things to me.
        tdkl 11y ago
        "Free speech" and "freedom of acting like a little bitch" are two different things though.
        coldpie 11y ago
        Lol
        JungleGymSam 11y ago
        > and not welcome near me Are you saying you believe that another person can only be near you because you give them implicit permission to? And that at any time, and for any reason, you could remove that permission? Where did you get that idea?
vdaniuk 11y ago
>University is for adults, not toddlers. Oh really, so university students are able to consume alcohol, right? edit: noun: adult; - a person who is fully grown or developed. - a person who has reached the age of majority. edit 2: "Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of judgment." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/
- vixen99 11y ago
  So what? University still remains a place for adults. All sorts of odd laws and regulations pertain to institutions and other organizations notwithstanding.
  - vdaniuk 11y ago
    University remains a place for adults who are not legally recognized as adults but are expected to fully act as adults. So consistent, much logic.
    - fixermark 11y ago
      You're conflating a binary with a continuum. The dominant American culture is not one with a single consistently-applied rite of passage to adulthood. Over about a decade, people go though multiple transitions (age of majority, voting age, drinking age---heck, a lot of people even recognize the age at which rental car companies stop applying a "You're probably a dangerous driver" surcharge, at 25 years old).
      - vdaniuk 11y ago
        Yes, adulthood is a continuum. That's why it's wrong to say that college is for "adults". Some of students are very immature, some have more wisdom than older people. So I am not disagreeing with your point of view.
vlehto 11y ago
>University is for adults, not toddlers. This argument is basically "You belong to social group X. You cannot opt out." Then followed by "because to social group X, you have to behave in Y way. Because that's how X people behave." Depending on the surrounding culture, with that argument you can justify: why men have to wear ties, why young men should be sent to war, why women should wear burkha, etc. Anything conservative goes. I'm not disagreeing with your actual point. I'm just trying to point out that your argument is bad.

by Juliate 11y ago

coldpie 11y ago

> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality No one is arguing for this.

jerf 11y ago
Yes, they are. As soon as you claim they are, they scurry away claiming that's not what they mean, but as soon as you say "OK then" and move on, they turn right around and it's all about their feelings again. It is very much a part of the modern PC platform that if someone "feels" assaulted, they are, and you must believe them or you are blaming the victim. This is why accusations are as good as conviction in places where PC reigns supreme, because the fact of accusation is itself proof of feeling, and that's it, case closed. Don't fall for this transparent rhetorical ploy. Arguments that only appear transiently to dismiss one point, then disappear into the ether immediately after, are not arguments, just rhetoric. (This is a general point that applies in many places, actually.)
- coldpie 11y ago
  In what case is someone doing this at the cost of "truth/understanding of reality"?
adventured 11y ago
In fact it's being very openly argued all over the place in US culture today. The recent famous video of the Yale professor that was trying to talk rationally to the irrational students around him - it was all about the students claiming they had a right to not be offended, and the notion that their feelings trumped freedom of speech.
- coldpie 11y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't know what video you're referring to. What rational point was the professor trying to make? That white people dressing in racially-charged costumes should not be shunned?
  - Tenhundfeld 11y ago
    I think this is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0 Along with some NYT coverage on this general topic: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-generation-becomes-less-tolerant-of-free-speech http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2015/11/02/when-a-gener... This issue of students complaining about trigger warnings and the need for safe spaces certainly seems to be increasingly prevalent, but that could just be due to the media giving it more attention.
    - coldpie 11y ago
      Interesting that according to that NYTimes link, offensive speech is considered protected "free speech," while people objecting to offensive speech does not qualify. I have just as much a right to tell you you're an asshole and not welcome near me as you do to say offensive things to me.
      - tdkl 11y ago
        "Free speech" and "freedom of acting like a little bitch" are two different things though.
        coldpie 11y ago
        Lol
      - JungleGymSam 11y ago
        > and not welcome near me Are you saying you believe that another person can only be near you because you give them implicit permission to? And that at any time, and for any reason, you could remove that permission? Where did you get that idea?

vdaniuk 11y ago

>University is for adults, not toddlers. Oh really, so university students are able to consume alcohol, right? edit: noun: adult; - a person who is fully grown or developed. - a person who has reached the age of majority. edit 2: "Longitudinal neuroimaging studies demonstrate that the adolescent brain continues to mature well into the 20s. This has prompted intense interest in linking neuromaturation to maturity of judgment." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892678/

vixen99 11y ago
So what? University still remains a place for adults. All sorts of odd laws and regulations pertain to institutions and other organizations notwithstanding.
- vdaniuk 11y ago
  University remains a place for adults who are not legally recognized as adults but are expected to fully act as adults. So consistent, much logic.
  - fixermark 11y ago
    You're conflating a binary with a continuum. The dominant American culture is not one with a single consistently-applied rite of passage to adulthood. Over about a decade, people go though multiple transitions (age of majority, voting age, drinking age---heck, a lot of people even recognize the age at which rental car companies stop applying a "You're probably a dangerous driver" surcharge, at 25 years old).
    - vdaniuk 11y ago
      Yes, adulthood is a continuum. That's why it's wrong to say that college is for "adults". Some of students are very immature, some have more wisdom than older people. So I am not disagreeing with your point of view.

vlehto 11y ago

>University is for adults, not toddlers. This argument is basically "You belong to social group X. You cannot opt out." Then followed by "because to social group X, you have to behave in Y way. Because that's how X people behave." Depending on the surrounding culture, with that argument you can justify: why men have to wear ties, why young men should be sent to war, why women should wear burkha, etc. Anything conservative goes. I'm not disagreeing with your actual point. I'm just trying to point out that your argument is bad.