6 ms·

There are a few other ARM laptop projects that are interesting to watch as well: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ http://rhombus-tech.

There are a few other ARM laptop projects that are interesting to watch as well: http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ http://rhombus-tech.net/community_ideas/laptop_15in/news/ http://wiki.vero-apparatus.com/ARM64OpenLaptopConcept http://wiki.vero-apparatus.com/ARM64OpenLaptopConcept I hope that it will be possible to boot stock Debian on them without the need for binary blob drivers or userspace programs.

jacquesm 11y ago
I can see the reasoning behind the binary blob drivers but what's your reason for not liking userspace programs?
- antoinealb 11y ago
  I think he means binary userspace programs.
  - edwintorok 11y ago
    Yes
dublinben 11y ago
The Asus C201 with Libreboot[1] should come very close to meeting your requirements. There is still some progress to be made on the GPU driver, but it's a usable system. [1] http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html
- edwintorok 11y ago
  Thanks, how is the situation with the GPU on that device? Open source kernel&2D drivers, and binary blob for 3D driver?
  - nextos 11y ago
    Sadly yes. Mali is half finished, but it stalled. However, with 2D drivers things are quite OK. This is a humble machine, so 3D acceleration is not that useful.
    - zanny 11y ago
      Lima seems dead. Meanwhile Freedreno has been getting active development for years. Where are all the Snapdragon Chromebooks?
joezydeco 11y ago
Don't forget the Novena project: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=28 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=28
- smcl 11y ago
  I too am genuinely surprised that Novena wasn't the top comment here
- edwintorok 11y ago
  Indeed, there is also http://www.lowrisc.org/about/ http://www.lowrisc.org/about/. (not a laptop, but whole processor as open hardware).
jandrese 11y ago
Didn't we already go through this dance with the Netbook fad a few years ago? Or is the idea that low end ARM chips are now powerful enough to make the Netbook idea work?
- marssaxman 11y ago
  The netbook idea worked fine for me! (And my current portable is an old Thinkpad X60, which might as well be a netbook.) As far as I could tell the low-end market just got sucked into tablets when the iPad came out. Maybe the economics will work out a bit better now that the tablet hype is over and we've gone through another couple of transistor doublings.
  - tormeh 11y ago
    Apple was also better at making a low-end simple application-like computing device than assorted OEMs and Microsoft ever were. Looking back, it's obvious that Microsoft dropped the ball on that one. They could have made iWindows for people willing to sacrifice power, flexibility and freedom for mobility, reliability and ease-of-use.
    - zanny 11y ago
      Which makes me wonder why Ubuntu didn't take off on netbooks back then. Even today, this market segment seems perfect for desktop Linux, but nobody is enthusiastic about shipping it.
      - tormeh 11y ago
        Well, Ubuntu's basically Windows if you squint. iOS and Android are very different compared to both.
  - rjsw 11y ago
    I'm typing this on an original Asus EEEPC netbook, expanded the DRAM to 2GB but still works well for me.
tracker1 11y ago
I'd like to see something close to a solution where a fresh install of a common distro just works on the hardware... debian, ubuntu or similar preferred. It takes enough work to do so... what almost surprises me, is that there hasn't been an effort to make Ubuntu work out of the box, fresh after install on a macbook. There are a lot of macbooks that won't be seeing updates, but are more than servicable linux desktops.... I'd likely change mine over (mid-2014 rMBP) to Ubuntu if the post-install challenges weren't quite so daunting... that and Ubuntu seems to have removed the natural scrolling option.
- rahimnathwani 11y ago
  I found these instructions helpful for getting Debian booting on a Macbook, without having to use refit/refind: https://gist.github.com/andrewlkho/23b5b5bcf853b3473421 https://gist.github.com/andrewlkho/23b5b5bcf853b3473421 Wifi doesn't work out of the box, but it's just a matter of putting the packages on a USB stick, and installing them. I'm not sure rMBP users are the target audience for Ubuntu. Many people buy those machines in part due to the Apple ecosystem, not just for the nice hardware, so they wouldn't switch regardless of how easy the installer is.
  - SiVal 11y ago
    Even so, a lot of us who use server-side Linux would happily convert our last generation rMBP to client-side Linux when we upgraded to a new machine if getting Linux completely working on a client machine changed from something to brag about ("I don't know what you're talking about; it's easy", as a way of saying, "easy for me, because I'm highly skilled") to something that was so reliable that it said nothing good at all about its user. I really don't like being so dependant on Apple, a company that has decided to optimize its product designs for thinness, fashion, and ways for people to whom folders are "rocket science" to buy stuff and amuse themselves, for our client-side *nix workstations, but desktop Linux isn't as attractive a competitor as I keep wishing it were.
    - rahimnathwani 11y ago
      I agree with your overall point. I, too, wish that installing Debian on a Macbook were as easy as installing OSX on a Macbook, or as easy as installing Debian on a Thinkpad. I'm not sure, though, that easy installation would make desktop Linux much more attractive for most users.
makomk 11y ago
Right now it doesn't look like anyone's even tried running Debian on the 64-bit Allwinner SoC that Olimex are using or publicly documented just how open the official drivers for it are. Some of the recent Allwinner SoCs have been quite heavily reliant on binary blobs.

jacquesm 11y ago

I can see the reasoning behind the binary blob drivers but what's your reason for not liking userspace programs?

antoinealb 11y ago
I think he means binary userspace programs.
- edwintorok 11y ago
  Yes

dublinben 11y ago

The Asus C201 with Libreboot[1] should come very close to meeting your requirements. There is still some progress to be made on the GPU driver, but it's a usable system. [1] http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html http://libreboot.org/docs/hcl/c201.html

edwintorok 11y ago
Thanks, how is the situation with the GPU on that device? Open source kernel&2D drivers, and binary blob for 3D driver?
- nextos 11y ago
  Sadly yes. Mali is half finished, but it stalled. However, with 2D drivers things are quite OK. This is a humble machine, so 3D acceleration is not that useful.
  - zanny 11y ago
    Lima seems dead. Meanwhile Freedreno has been getting active development for years. Where are all the Snapdragon Chromebooks?

joezydeco 11y ago

Don't forget the Novena project: http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=28 http://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/?cat=28

smcl 11y ago
I too am genuinely surprised that Novena wasn't the top comment here
edwintorok 11y ago
Indeed, there is also http://www.lowrisc.org/about/ http://www.lowrisc.org/about/. (not a laptop, but whole processor as open hardware).

jandrese 11y ago

Didn't we already go through this dance with the Netbook fad a few years ago? Or is the idea that low end ARM chips are now powerful enough to make the Netbook idea work?

marssaxman 11y ago
The netbook idea worked fine for me! (And my current portable is an old Thinkpad X60, which might as well be a netbook.) As far as I could tell the low-end market just got sucked into tablets when the iPad came out. Maybe the economics will work out a bit better now that the tablet hype is over and we've gone through another couple of transistor doublings.
- tormeh 11y ago
  Apple was also better at making a low-end simple application-like computing device than assorted OEMs and Microsoft ever were. Looking back, it's obvious that Microsoft dropped the ball on that one. They could have made iWindows for people willing to sacrifice power, flexibility and freedom for mobility, reliability and ease-of-use.
  - zanny 11y ago
    Which makes me wonder why Ubuntu didn't take off on netbooks back then. Even today, this market segment seems perfect for desktop Linux, but nobody is enthusiastic about shipping it.
    - tormeh 11y ago
      Well, Ubuntu's basically Windows if you squint. iOS and Android are very different compared to both.
- rjsw 11y ago
  I'm typing this on an original Asus EEEPC netbook, expanded the DRAM to 2GB but still works well for me.

tracker1 11y ago

I'd like to see something close to a solution where a fresh install of a common distro just works on the hardware... debian, ubuntu or similar preferred. It takes enough work to do so... what almost surprises me, is that there hasn't been an effort to make Ubuntu work out of the box, fresh after install on a macbook. There are a lot of macbooks that won't be seeing updates, but are more than servicable linux desktops.... I'd likely change mine over (mid-2014 rMBP) to Ubuntu if the post-install challenges weren't quite so daunting... that and Ubuntu seems to have removed the natural scrolling option.

rahimnathwani 11y ago
I found these instructions helpful for getting Debian booting on a Macbook, without having to use refit/refind: https://gist.github.com/andrewlkho/23b5b5bcf853b3473421 https://gist.github.com/andrewlkho/23b5b5bcf853b3473421 Wifi doesn't work out of the box, but it's just a matter of putting the packages on a USB stick, and installing them. I'm not sure rMBP users are the target audience for Ubuntu. Many people buy those machines in part due to the Apple ecosystem, not just for the nice hardware, so they wouldn't switch regardless of how easy the installer is.
- SiVal 11y ago
  Even so, a lot of us who use server-side Linux would happily convert our last generation rMBP to client-side Linux when we upgraded to a new machine if getting Linux completely working on a client machine changed from something to brag about ("I don't know what you're talking about; it's easy", as a way of saying, "easy for me, because I'm highly skilled") to something that was so reliable that it said nothing good at all about its user. I really don't like being so dependant on Apple, a company that has decided to optimize its product designs for thinness, fashion, and ways for people to whom folders are "rocket science" to buy stuff and amuse themselves, for our client-side *nix workstations, but desktop Linux isn't as attractive a competitor as I keep wishing it were.
  - rahimnathwani 11y ago
    I agree with your overall point. I, too, wish that installing Debian on a Macbook were as easy as installing OSX on a Macbook, or as easy as installing Debian on a Thinkpad. I'm not sure, though, that easy installation would make desktop Linux much more attractive for most users.

makomk 11y ago

Right now it doesn't look like anyone's even tried running Debian on the 64-bit Allwinner SoC that Olimex are using or publicly documented just how open the official drivers for it are. Some of the recent Allwinner SoCs have been quite heavily reliant on binary blobs.