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I'm aware most people in tech don't care about their appearance, so I probably will get downovted, but I feel much better at work around nicely dressed people -

I'm aware most people in tech don't care about their appearance, so I probably will get downovted, but I feel much better at work around nicely dressed people - just as I prefer to work in a cozy office rather than an old hole with devastated walls, torn carpet and ugly desks. And yes, how you dress tells a lot about you.

arethuza 11y ago
I must admit that I really don't care in slightest how colleagues dress - looking around I can see people who are very smart (because they like to - not because it is required) and others that are very casual. I really don't care. Edit: I'm sitting in a very nice office!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Being dressed appropriately and neatly (not necessarily fashionably or expensively) is a sign of paying attention to details, good judgement and taste. All of which you need as a software developer.
  - tommorris 11y ago
    Do you need to have those an attention to detail, good judgment and taste, or do you need to merely display signs of having them to others?
    - arethuza 11y ago
      And is there any evidence that having "attention to detail, good judgment and taste" for personal appearance carries across to having those for software development. I've never seen any correlation.
jib 11y ago
Caring about dressing nicely is a Moneyball thing to me. If you care about how someone dresses when you hire them, odds are you're using bad criteria for your decisions. That's not to say that you can't get great people, but you're probably paying over the odds for them, if "dresses nicely" is one of your factors for selection. I think I will hire better if I dont care about dress code - I think odds are better that I will find a good hire if one of my criteria is not "do they own a suit or a dress".
- tommorris 11y ago
  > If you care about how someone dresses when you hire them Funnily enough, all the programmers I know who "don't care about dress" also will say that they have negative perceptions of people turning up in a suit for a programming job. They care about dress, they just want people to conform to a very casual dress code. Which would be fine, if they admitted to it. Instead, they say they "don't care about dress".
  - marcosdumay 11y ago
    They don't care about dress. They care a lot about being around people that care about dress, and turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. That said, it's a very reliable indicator on almost all situations, the most important exception being during an employment interview; it's extremely noisy then.
    - philh 11y ago
      > turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. or that they expect to be around people who (act as if they) care about dress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox
    - cballard 11y ago
      > They care a lot about being around people that care about dress, and turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. I disagree with this. Showing up in "a suit", in most cases, isn't caring about dress, it's thinking that a required formality of dress is necessary. People that care about clothes, and are fashion enthusiasts, will show up in Thom Browne, CdG, Engineered Garments, etc. - or even just basic Club Monaco-type stuff if they're don't have a giant amount of disposable income. While adherence to arbitrary fashion formality levels may be an indicator of unawareness, an interest in fashion seems incredibly unrelated to programming skill, unless the programmer is expected to be solely interested in programming - in which case, they should also rule out runners, rock climbers, guitarists, etc.
EliRivers 11y ago
I'm aware most people in tech don't care about their appearance In my experience, that's not true. Many do care, but a significant part of it is caring about giving the impression that they don't care, coupled with the need to not stray outside the uniform. many places say they don't have a dress code, but that's usually short-hand for "you need to look like us to work here".
ryanmonroe 11y ago
It's okay to prefer that people wear button up shirts and slacks (or a suit, or whatever), but theres no reason to act as if those clothing items are objectively "nicer".

arethuza 11y ago

I must admit that I really don't care in slightest how colleagues dress - looking around I can see people who are very smart (because they like to - not because it is required) and others that are very casual. I really don't care. Edit: I'm sitting in a very nice office!

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
jazzyk 11y ago
Being dressed appropriately and neatly (not necessarily fashionably or expensively) is a sign of paying attention to details, good judgement and taste. All of which you need as a software developer.
- tommorris 11y ago
  Do you need to have those an attention to detail, good judgment and taste, or do you need to merely display signs of having them to others?
  - arethuza 11y ago
    And is there any evidence that having "attention to detail, good judgment and taste" for personal appearance carries across to having those for software development. I've never seen any correlation.

jib 11y ago

Caring about dressing nicely is a Moneyball thing to me. If you care about how someone dresses when you hire them, odds are you're using bad criteria for your decisions. That's not to say that you can't get great people, but you're probably paying over the odds for them, if "dresses nicely" is one of your factors for selection. I think I will hire better if I dont care about dress code - I think odds are better that I will find a good hire if one of my criteria is not "do they own a suit or a dress".

tommorris 11y ago
> If you care about how someone dresses when you hire them Funnily enough, all the programmers I know who "don't care about dress" also will say that they have negative perceptions of people turning up in a suit for a programming job. They care about dress, they just want people to conform to a very casual dress code. Which would be fine, if they admitted to it. Instead, they say they "don't care about dress".
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  They don't care about dress. They care a lot about being around people that care about dress, and turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. That said, it's a very reliable indicator on almost all situations, the most important exception being during an employment interview; it's extremely noisy then.
  - philh 11y ago
    > turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. or that they expect to be around people who (act as if they) care about dress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abilene_paradox
  - cballard 11y ago
    > They care a lot about being around people that care about dress, and turning up in a suit is a very reliable indicator that a person cares about dress. I disagree with this. Showing up in "a suit", in most cases, isn't caring about dress, it's thinking that a required formality of dress is necessary. People that care about clothes, and are fashion enthusiasts, will show up in Thom Browne, CdG, Engineered Garments, etc. - or even just basic Club Monaco-type stuff if they're don't have a giant amount of disposable income. While adherence to arbitrary fashion formality levels may be an indicator of unawareness, an interest in fashion seems incredibly unrelated to programming skill, unless the programmer is expected to be solely interested in programming - in which case, they should also rule out runners, rock climbers, guitarists, etc.

EliRivers 11y ago

I'm aware most people in tech don't care about their appearance In my experience, that's not true. Many do care, but a significant part of it is caring about giving the impression that they don't care, coupled with the need to not stray outside the uniform. many places say they don't have a dress code, but that's usually short-hand for "you need to look like us to work here".

ryanmonroe 11y ago

It's okay to prefer that people wear button up shirts and slacks (or a suit, or whatever), but theres no reason to act as if those clothing items are objectively "nicer".