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Ask HN: Losing interest

I learned how to code in University and did pretty well at it after an initial struggle. I studied EE but felt like being a programmer matched my interests better so I got a job in that. I've been working a few years at the same place. I write Python REST APIs at the moment. The other person on my team does UI work, which I started out doing and still do sometimes. I've built the whole back end system from scratch so I feel like I have a good understanding of how everything works and the ability to work on any level of the stack, though I know the most about the back end. I have been feeling disinterested in what I'm working on. My team is only 2 people and we don't work together on much of anything. I find this other person difficult to talk to. A couple of friends from Uni work there but all 3 of us are different projects. My company seems to have issues hiring people and the people there are mostly B or C level. It seems constantly disorganized and like there isn't any vision or clear direction of where my team is going. I'd like it if I were on a larger team and was able to get feedback on my work so I can get better. On the positive side, they pay pretty well, have no dress code, and allow flexible hours. I'm enjoying making money and building a life outside of work. However, I think I would enjoy my life more if the 8+ hours I spend every M-F felt more meaningful. I can think of other projects that have been mentioned that I would like to take on, but it seems there's always something in upper management that keeps them from getting going. I don't know if I'm an A-level programmer that could get a job somewhere else. I'm probably a B or B+, but I think I might rather be working at a company with A and B level people so I can learn more. As it is, I feel like my interest is going downhill and that might start to show in my work. On top of that I'm not sure if it's a good idea to stay at the same place for too long. Any advice on how to get back into it mentally or how to find new work? Is this how it is everywhere?

Jemaclus 11y ago
My first professional rule is to try to be one of the dumbest people in the room. By that I mean, I want to surround myself with people who know more about things that I don't know much about. At my last job, there were five engineers. One was the best manager I've ever had and taught me a lot about being a professional. Another was a phenomenal software architect that taught me a lot about how to build large applications. Yet another really knew everything about the front-end, and the fourth was a terrible coder, but taught me a lot about how NOT to code. My second professional rule is that when I stop learning, it's time to move on. I always want to challenge myself. If I'm not challenging myself, I'm not improving and, like you, I get bored. I don't know a lot about your situation, nor do I have an inkling of your capabilities. That said, it sounds like your situation doesn't satisfy either of my two rules. If that's the case, I recommend you look around for something new, where you can find people that will push you to be better. That said, there are other options. You may find that teaching others is a rewarding experience. Perhaps a more engaging social life will mitigate boredom at the day job. You may find that having some side projects can invigorate your interest. Or perhaps digging into another language or new technology can help keep you interested in your job. You say you've got a lot of experience on the back-end. Maybe another step would be investigating more DevOps type roles. Implement containers and autoscale, automate deployments, build a CI server. Or look into starting a professional development group at work to teach or learn new skills. Ask directly for feedback. If nobody is offering, ask them. Offer to take on new responsibilities. Identify some pain point that the company has and solve it. It might lead to opportunities to grow the team. If you're bored for too long, you're going to be miserable. The only way to fix boredom is to seek out change, whether that means a new job or a new skill or new friends. Unfortunately, this is a very, very common scenario out there. The good news is that it is entirely within your power to fix. Good luck.
- jacquesm 11y ago
  That's a superb attitude. Someone I know that ended up at Google was quite surprised that he indeed was the dumbest person in the room where up to that point he'd just about always been the smartest. then he started learning for real.
  - ameen 11y ago
    > then he started learning for real. Why do I always feel like the dumbest person even though I'm the only person in the room? I have worked on multiple projects/products and successfully met & exceeded deadlines and have always understood/delivered on product decisions. For some reason, I feel like a fraud, one who's one meeting/standup/pair-programming session away from being found out. I don't think this is imposter syndrome. My productivity has taken a nose dive, I've quit the company (it was a sabbatical that I've never returned from). Scouring HN is an experience in reinforcing my mediocrity.
- shubhamjain 11y ago
  I don't wish to be snarky but is it really feasible for everyone to be "smartest person in the room"? For a of cities, tech scene is not as big as Bay Area and lots of people can't simply pack their bags and move there.
  - CamperBob2 11y ago
    That's not what he said. You want to be the dumbest person in the room (and, often, the quietest.) That's a lot more achievable.
    - shasta 11y ago
      I think the person you're replying to meant to repeat dumbest, from context.
- amelius 11y ago
  > My second professional rule is that when I stop learning, it's time to move on. Note that it is not always necessary to learn from other people. It is also possible to learn by yourself. Not just by reading books/papers, but also by doing research.
such_a_casual 11y ago
Sometimes I ask myself, how can I make this cool? How can I do this with style? I have no idea how helpful that is to you, but it's the first thing I think about when I think about being bored. Best of luck.
- baby 11y ago
  I like this advice, it is quite different from the rest. Care to expand?
- markism 11y ago
  Another variation I've heard is "Make it interesting."
lovboat 11y ago
Don't know about how to get a new job, but I think today is easy to learn many things. Many companies are looking for people that are able to learn by themselves and are motivated to do so. You would have to decide what you want to learn in order to increase the opportunities to get a new more interesting job. Today javascript and the concepts around it (node, promises, callback functions, reactive programming) seem to be useful tools. Another advice is to enhance your net of friends, they can give you good advice and perhaps can be a good first step to find the new job. Good luck.
hackaflocka 11y ago
Work on a private project on the side. Work on your "Facebook", your "Twitter"... i.e. a project that has the potential to make you financially independent one day. And even if it's not that project that does it, all that you learn through it will help you in the next (private side project). And the next. One of these projects will either hit pay-dirt one day and liberate you to do whatever you want... or these projects will keep hope alive. This what I do. If you want to contact me for more details / moral support / etc., hit reply and leave contact deets.
- s3nnyy 11y ago
  Not OP but would be great to chat - mail at iwang at fastmail.net
- modanq 11y ago
  I would reiterate this, work on something you own.
murderofcrows 11y ago
Might be helpful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642068
late2part 11y ago
Go work at CrowdStrike.com. All the problems related to business, culture, organization, feedback don't exist there.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
alaskamiller 11y ago
Be who you want to be. If it feels disorganize then organize it. If it feels chaotic then order it. If it feels bad then make it better. You want meaning but yet write passively about it, lamenting why it hasn't been given to you for just being paid to show up somewhere in tshirt and jeans for eight hours. Here's the lesson: you make it up.
- stratigos 11y ago
  Yah, see the codebase as a message-in-a-bottle to programmers down the road years from now. Use your work with it as a way of saying, "this is how i think it should be done." Your skills can grow, the company benefits, and you can be more proud of/satisfied with your work.
- fredkbloggs 11y ago
  Even more broadly, what do you want out of life? Are you just going to work every day because that's what people do, or do you have a goal? Your life's purpose is yours to define, and you need to figure out whether employment (with this company, in this team, in this industry, etc.) is moving you toward your goal(s). If not, change. The OP didn't really describe any goals, and it's impossible to make sensible decisions without a reasonably clear idea of the desired end state. "I want to get better somehow" isn't a goal, so the various options can't be evaluated against it.
stratigos 11y ago
1. Get involved with open source projects. This will help you network, teach you new skills, and expose you to wider aspects of the ecosystem involving your technology stack. 2. Pick some other language you've never worked with, that has some potential market (i.e., you could make money with it), and just start learning. Do online courses, cookbooks, make demo projects, and once you have some competency - join an open source project in it. The point isnt just to get a new job, thats a side effect. The point is to regain a fondness for programming by seeing it from a totally new angle. If youre into Python, have you ever worked in a compiled language like C? How about Java? Functional programming w Haskell? Metaprogramming with Ruby? What about learning a whole new concept, like 3D graphics with an API/framework like OpenGL? Or game engine architecture with Unity3D? Just do something different, and rediscover a love of being a maker in the process. Even if it doesnt become a new trade, you certainly will be a better Python programmer due to your experience in a completely different technology stack. 3. Find local meetup groups that are involved in programming. Meetup.com is a good resource. Keep up to date with technology happenings in your area (conventions, talks, expos, etc), and attend them. Say hi to people, talk about what youd want in a job you think youd love. Additional advice: Read the book "The Passionate Programmer"
- henrik_w 11y ago
  +1 for "The Passionate Programmer" - great book!
kafkaesq 11y ago
For the time being, just try to separate this idea of "doing something I feel really passionate about, and gets me so excited I can't wait to get to work in the morning!" from "just making a living." The latter really isn't so bad, and even a boring and unfulfilling job can be a blessing in disguise --- if, like this one, it doesn't eat your life, and in your off hours, lets you be you -- on top of filling your bank account while you have all the time in the world to look for something else. Keeping in mind also that things could easily be a lot worse -- many shops which seem exciting from the outside (and which you might even have recommendations from friends for) can quickly turn out to be toxic, unstable, and/or just play amateurishly-run on the inside. And even though your current job might seem to be a bit of a drag, absolutely having to find a job on short notice (even in a "hot" job market) -- or dealing with the reputation damage from having worked for a company that turns out to be dicey (of from being fired due to petty clashes or interpersonal issues) can be much more costly to deal with, both mentally and financially.
Estragon 11y ago
Who mandates that the APIs are written in python? It sounds like no one else develops them. Could you start writing them in Haskell or something?
geff82 11y ago
Try to be the leader. Try to be the one others look up to. Try to do a perfect job that everyone appreciates. Be the one who teaches others. If you did all that, you are ready to move on.
OliverJones 11y ago
"Is this how it is everywhere?" Yes, at times everybody gets a little bored. 99% perspiration, etc etc. You have a paycheck coming. "How to get back into it mentally?" Level up somehow. Work on a problem that's a level higher than what you're doing now. That could be * figuring out how to automate some part of your current work. * figuring out how to improve hiring in your current shop. * go on sales calls and take notes about customer unmet needs. * mentoring and training junior people. * starting a lunch-n-learn effort or a meetup of like minded people at work or in your work neighborhood. * teaching a class at a community college. These are in addition to what other people have suggested.
- dayjah 11y ago
  I love this answer. "Situational Leadership" [1] is a philosophy that has served me well as a manager and as someone that has been managed by an inexperienced manager. It benefits from a strict definition of the mental state individuals go through while learning. Some of us are better at accepting the boredom that is a part of this cycle than others. The good news is that you're demonstrating the characteristics of someone less at ease with boredom, so utilizing a methodology stands the chance of offering large personal gains. This answer lists examples of the vocational application of situational leadership, focussed on stage one which is roughly: encouraging a high degree of excitement by challenging the individual to learn new skills in an interesting area. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theor...
geff82 11y ago
Try to be the leader. Try to be the one others look up to. Try to do a perfect job that everyone appreciates. Be the one who teaches others. If you did all that, you are ready to move on.
innertracks 11y ago
Cal Newport, a CS prof at Georgetown, has a blog with a related post http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/12/26/if-youre-nervous-about-quitting-your-boring-job-dont-do-it/ http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/12/26/if-youre-nervous-about... I've been absorbing his writing all week. He's focused on how people become passionate about their careers via deep focus. His blog is full of very helpful insights, research, how to tips, and case studies around passion and work.
craigds 11y ago
> My team is only 2 people and we don't work together on much of anything. I find this other person difficult to talk to. This may be a bigger part of the problem than you realise. It's incredible how much working with the right people helps. Consider working for a company that can offer you a slightly bigger team. Then at least you can choose who to have lunch with, or even choose who you get to work with. I'm a mostly-Python programmer too. One thing I like is that we work on a large-scale long-term product (as opposed to numerous short-term client projects.) If you're doing the same thing over and over for different clients you may get sick of it. (YMMV, I hear some people love starting from scratch every 3 months!) > I don't know if I'm an A-level programmer that could get a job somewhere else. Do some interviews and find out? Job markets for programmers who are good at picking things up are still pretty wide, especially if you have the flexibility to move. Especially if you know some slightly-niche technologies you're probably more in demand than you know. Come to NZ and work for us :)
rdiddly 11y ago
"I can think of other projects that have been mentioned that I would like to take on, but it seems there's always something in upper management that keeps them from getting going." Lose the passive attitude about "upper management," and go talk to them. They're just people with opinions. Talk them into supporting one of the projects that you wish you could take on, and volunteer to take it on. Stand in the room and explain persuasively, using numbers and emotions, that they can make or save money on a project. If you can't successfully construct such a pitch/argument for a given project then quite probably mgt. was correct NOT to have pursued the idea. If they are truly dysfunctional you will quickly find this out by observing how they handle it. If they shoot you down (dysfunctionally or for good reasons), you have lost nothing, but maybe it did provide a little of that needed excitement for a while. And maybe they'll admire the chutzpah and remember you later when some project comes along that they DO want to support. If they give you the green light, then you will have ample excitement for some time to come, with new things to learn and new challenges. Maybe they'll even let you hire some people to help. You can always make it a condition of your continued employment, i.e. "I am moving in such-and-such direction and would love it if the company can grow around me." (Translation: This is what I want to do, with or without you.) If it doesn't work out, THEN think about moving on. Late edit: Forgot to add: GOOD LUCK!
jondubois 11y ago
Maybe you've outgrown your place of work. When your work isn't challenging anymore, it means that you are stagnating professionally - You are not growing. You can choose the easy path and stay in the same company or you can move on to another (better) one. I've been through like 8 software companies. As soon as I felt comfortable in a particular company; that was the time to hand in my resignation; unless it was a startup which showed potential then I would stay longer. Typically, when you join a new company, you should try to be the dumbest person in the room. If you're not, then this is not the company for you. Usually being exposed to different problem domains and tooling should be challenging enough for the first 3 months.
Falkon1313 11y ago
> Is this how it is everywhere? Yes and no. We all have to do boring and repetitive or under-appreciated stuff from time to time. But there's a big difference in environments. If you work internally at a company where the product is something other than what you are working on, you may sometimes feel like an outsider and unimportant and that you have few people to talk to in a meaningful way. But you can talk to people all over the company, and learn a lot about things other than what you normally do on a day-to-day basis. You may find interesting ways to help them that they never thought of (because they're not programmers) and that you never thought of (because no one asked you to do it). That's one way to both do things that feel more meaningful and have more people to talk to. You could work for an agency, doing many short projects with a lot of variety, along with a team who does the same things. There, even the non-developers should be interested in your work so it will seem more meaningful. You should be able to try out a variety of new and interesting things. But it may still seem disorganized and lacking vision due to the many short projects. You could try working for a company where the product is the software (or SAAS) that you're developing. Then you'll likely be in a dev-oriented team and feel more at home, and your work will be more meaningful because it directly impacts everyone in the company as well as their clients/customers. It probably won't feel as disorganized and lacking vision, but you may end up working on one thing for a long time, so there's less variety. You can approach it from different angles and do different things in support of it to keep up the interest. There are trade-offs anywhere, but there's a wide variety and you can find a way to renew interest.
jedberg 11y ago
Do you like Python? If you do: Go to Pycon. Put your name on the job board. Go to interviews. Ask questions about the workplace, the work and try to really suss out the attitudes of the people there. If you still think where you work is the best place, stay there, otherwise take another offer, if you got any, and if you didn't get any, you still have a lot of data on how other places run their shops. There is no downside to interviewing. You'll get practice interviewing and you get to learn about other people work. If your current employer finds out, one of three things will happen. Either nothing at all, or they will realize they need to give you more responsibility and make your life better, or they will be resentful and try to make your life miserable. If either A or C happens, at least you know where you stand with them, and if B happens, then great! Your job is better now. At Netflix people were encouraged to interview once in a while, because we knew everyone wins. They either come back happy that their job is still the best, they bring back ideas on how to make things better, or they realize they don't want to be there anymore and move on, in which case we're all better off because we don't have someone who isn't excited about their work and they are happy in their new job.
techjuice 11y ago
Some companies do not always want the best and the top of spear developers. Sometimes a fresh slate is more rewarding. Real example, the team I am on has had several developers but those that were the hungriest and got things done right the first time were those that started out with very little experience and had super busy lives once they got off work. The individuals shows up to work earlier than needed, is always looking for something new to learn, contributes fabulous ideas that do get implemented in production and overall are normally a really good fresh breath of air. These types of people help insure that you keep up your standards and insure what you are teaching them is right as they are fresh minds and you don't want to send them down a bad path. The individuals normally have programming experience in other languages or other areas but have never had the opportunity to go deeper into the work or were only allowed to work on the easy stuff. When people join my team I like to give them something to own and grow with, which any wonderful top level developer, engineer, manager, mentor, etc. should do for those new to the team. I have found it challenges you to improve yourself, keep your documentation on point and it helps the team grow and the manager normally scratches their head when they find out their new employee has learned so much in such a small amount of time. Best part of this is you will normally be able to ramp up enough to be able to handle critical functions in less than six months, probably a small peace but very important that you have been able to master. This helps free up more time for documentation, training, critical upgrade planning and more by the top developers so they can spend more time with you bringing you up to speed. Do not worry about not being good enough, if you are what they are looking for you should be able to find this out in an interview along with being able to make a better judgement if you are a fit. If you like the pay, I recommend looking for another job that has similar or higher pay, the only way to become a better developer and engineer is to gain more experience, especially with things you have never used before. This only happens with new technology being introduced in the company or moving to a new job that uses modern technology.
fredkbloggs 11y ago
Yes, it's this way everywhere, or nearly so, and it's a peculiar disease of our place and time to imagine that it shouldn't be. The reason people work for others instead of living a preindustrial lifestyle is to get money to buy the things they don't want to make for themselves, because they believe they will come out ahead overall that way. Work is what you do for money; it's for your employer's benefit, not yours. The benefit you get is the money. If they're not paying you enough to justify giving them your time, it's time to think about doing something different: going into business for yourself, switching to part-time, working for a different employer, leaving the workforce, demanding a raise, or some other change that will make you feel like you're getting better value for your time. Your lifetime is finite and you cannot exchange money for more of it. But the idea that what you do for money should be enjoyable is embarrassingly entitled. You're supposed to be enjoying what you do with the money, not what you do for it. Again, if the two are out of balance, it's time for a change. Otherwise, put in your time, collect your money, and don't dwell on it. Employment is just a means to an end, not the end in itself, and certainly not the only one available to you.
sauronlord 11y ago
I know exactly how you feel. Really, I do. How I cope: - I hired a tax planner and MAXIMIZED the amount of money I'm saving. - I tell myself that I'm an INVESTOR, first and and foremost and that my 'boring' job at the 'reactive' company with the 'B'-players is just a transition period. See: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50a0b8a5e4b081ffff7918bd/t/55066780e4b0f9921cd7c1c0/1426483086414/?format=500w http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50a0b8a5e4b081ffff7918... - Work on my own small projects at night - I improve things at work (Built an integration framework, introduce sorely needed technologies, improve customer support documentation, rally people around improving certain "broken" areas).
bo_Olean 11y ago
If I were in your situation I'd use that time off the actual work to learn new things. Work on open source project or start my own projects etc. Whoever you work with at the end when it comes to learning it falls back to how far you are willing to dedicate time to learning. The best way to learn is by yourself. As far as getting influenced by A level people is concerned you can get influenced by them fairly anywhere in the internet.

Jemaclus 11y ago

My first professional rule is to try to be one of the dumbest people in the room. By that I mean, I want to surround myself with people who know more about things that I don't know much about. At my last job, there were five engineers. One was the best manager I've ever had and taught me a lot about being a professional. Another was a phenomenal software architect that taught me a lot about how to build large applications. Yet another really knew everything about the front-end, and the fourth was a terrible coder, but taught me a lot about how NOT to code. My second professional rule is that when I stop learning, it's time to move on. I always want to challenge myself. If I'm not challenging myself, I'm not improving and, like you, I get bored. I don't know a lot about your situation, nor do I have an inkling of your capabilities. That said, it sounds like your situation doesn't satisfy either of my two rules. If that's the case, I recommend you look around for something new, where you can find people that will push you to be better. That said, there are other options. You may find that teaching others is a rewarding experience. Perhaps a more engaging social life will mitigate boredom at the day job. You may find that having some side projects can invigorate your interest. Or perhaps digging into another language or new technology can help keep you interested in your job. You say you've got a lot of experience on the back-end. Maybe another step would be investigating more DevOps type roles. Implement containers and autoscale, automate deployments, build a CI server. Or look into starting a professional development group at work to teach or learn new skills. Ask directly for feedback. If nobody is offering, ask them. Offer to take on new responsibilities. Identify some pain point that the company has and solve it. It might lead to opportunities to grow the team. If you're bored for too long, you're going to be miserable. The only way to fix boredom is to seek out change, whether that means a new job or a new skill or new friends. Unfortunately, this is a very, very common scenario out there. The good news is that it is entirely within your power to fix. Good luck.

jacquesm 11y ago
That's a superb attitude. Someone I know that ended up at Google was quite surprised that he indeed was the dumbest person in the room where up to that point he'd just about always been the smartest. then he started learning for real.
- ameen 11y ago
  > then he started learning for real. Why do I always feel like the dumbest person even though I'm the only person in the room? I have worked on multiple projects/products and successfully met & exceeded deadlines and have always understood/delivered on product decisions. For some reason, I feel like a fraud, one who's one meeting/standup/pair-programming session away from being found out. I don't think this is imposter syndrome. My productivity has taken a nose dive, I've quit the company (it was a sabbatical that I've never returned from). Scouring HN is an experience in reinforcing my mediocrity.
shubhamjain 11y ago
I don't wish to be snarky but is it really feasible for everyone to be "smartest person in the room"? For a of cities, tech scene is not as big as Bay Area and lots of people can't simply pack their bags and move there.
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  That's not what he said. You want to be the dumbest person in the room (and, often, the quietest.) That's a lot more achievable.
  - shasta 11y ago
    I think the person you're replying to meant to repeat dumbest, from context.
amelius 11y ago
> My second professional rule is that when I stop learning, it's time to move on. Note that it is not always necessary to learn from other people. It is also possible to learn by yourself. Not just by reading books/papers, but also by doing research.

such_a_casual 11y ago

Sometimes I ask myself, how can I make this cool? How can I do this with style? I have no idea how helpful that is to you, but it's the first thing I think about when I think about being bored. Best of luck.

baby 11y ago
I like this advice, it is quite different from the rest. Care to expand?
markism 11y ago
Another variation I've heard is "Make it interesting."

lovboat 11y ago

Don't know about how to get a new job, but I think today is easy to learn many things. Many companies are looking for people that are able to learn by themselves and are motivated to do so. You would have to decide what you want to learn in order to increase the opportunities to get a new more interesting job. Today javascript and the concepts around it (node, promises, callback functions, reactive programming) seem to be useful tools. Another advice is to enhance your net of friends, they can give you good advice and perhaps can be a good first step to find the new job. Good luck.

hackaflocka 11y ago

Work on a private project on the side. Work on your "Facebook", your "Twitter"... i.e. a project that has the potential to make you financially independent one day. And even if it's not that project that does it, all that you learn through it will help you in the next (private side project). And the next. One of these projects will either hit pay-dirt one day and liberate you to do whatever you want... or these projects will keep hope alive. This what I do. If you want to contact me for more details / moral support / etc., hit reply and leave contact deets.

s3nnyy 11y ago
Not OP but would be great to chat - mail at iwang at fastmail.net
modanq 11y ago
I would reiterate this, work on something you own.

murderofcrows 11y ago

Might be helpful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10642068

late2part 11y ago

Go work at CrowdStrike.com. All the problems related to business, culture, organization, feedback don't exist there.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

alaskamiller 11y ago

Be who you want to be. If it feels disorganize then organize it. If it feels chaotic then order it. If it feels bad then make it better. You want meaning but yet write passively about it, lamenting why it hasn't been given to you for just being paid to show up somewhere in tshirt and jeans for eight hours. Here's the lesson: you make it up.

stratigos 11y ago
Yah, see the codebase as a message-in-a-bottle to programmers down the road years from now. Use your work with it as a way of saying, "this is how i think it should be done." Your skills can grow, the company benefits, and you can be more proud of/satisfied with your work.
fredkbloggs 11y ago
Even more broadly, what do you want out of life? Are you just going to work every day because that's what people do, or do you have a goal? Your life's purpose is yours to define, and you need to figure out whether employment (with this company, in this team, in this industry, etc.) is moving you toward your goal(s). If not, change. The OP didn't really describe any goals, and it's impossible to make sensible decisions without a reasonably clear idea of the desired end state. "I want to get better somehow" isn't a goal, so the various options can't be evaluated against it.

stratigos 11y ago

1. Get involved with open source projects. This will help you network, teach you new skills, and expose you to wider aspects of the ecosystem involving your technology stack. 2. Pick some other language you've never worked with, that has some potential market (i.e., you could make money with it), and just start learning. Do online courses, cookbooks, make demo projects, and once you have some competency - join an open source project in it. The point isnt just to get a new job, thats a side effect. The point is to regain a fondness for programming by seeing it from a totally new angle. If youre into Python, have you ever worked in a compiled language like C? How about Java? Functional programming w Haskell? Metaprogramming with Ruby? What about learning a whole new concept, like 3D graphics with an API/framework like OpenGL? Or game engine architecture with Unity3D? Just do something different, and rediscover a love of being a maker in the process. Even if it doesnt become a new trade, you certainly will be a better Python programmer due to your experience in a completely different technology stack. 3. Find local meetup groups that are involved in programming. Meetup.com is a good resource. Keep up to date with technology happenings in your area (conventions, talks, expos, etc), and attend them. Say hi to people, talk about what youd want in a job you think youd love. Additional advice: Read the book "The Passionate Programmer"

henrik_w 11y ago
+1 for "The Passionate Programmer" - great book!

kafkaesq 11y ago

For the time being, just try to separate this idea of "doing something I feel really passionate about, and gets me so excited I can't wait to get to work in the morning!" from "just making a living." The latter really isn't so bad, and even a boring and unfulfilling job can be a blessing in disguise --- if, like this one, it doesn't eat your life, and in your off hours, lets you be you -- on top of filling your bank account while you have all the time in the world to look for something else. Keeping in mind also that things could easily be a lot worse -- many shops which seem exciting from the outside (and which you might even have recommendations from friends for) can quickly turn out to be toxic, unstable, and/or just play amateurishly-run on the inside. And even though your current job might seem to be a bit of a drag, absolutely having to find a job on short notice (even in a "hot" job market) -- or dealing with the reputation damage from having worked for a company that turns out to be dicey (of from being fired due to petty clashes or interpersonal issues) can be much more costly to deal with, both mentally and financially.

Estragon 11y ago

Who mandates that the APIs are written in python? It sounds like no one else develops them. Could you start writing them in Haskell or something?

geff82 11y ago

Try to be the leader. Try to be the one others look up to. Try to do a perfect job that everyone appreciates. Be the one who teaches others. If you did all that, you are ready to move on.

OliverJones 11y ago

"Is this how it is everywhere?" Yes, at times everybody gets a little bored. 99% perspiration, etc etc. You have a paycheck coming. "How to get back into it mentally?" Level up somehow. Work on a problem that's a level higher than what you're doing now. That could be * figuring out how to automate some part of your current work. * figuring out how to improve hiring in your current shop. * go on sales calls and take notes about customer unmet needs. * mentoring and training junior people. * starting a lunch-n-learn effort or a meetup of like minded people at work or in your work neighborhood. * teaching a class at a community college. These are in addition to what other people have suggested.

dayjah 11y ago
I love this answer. "Situational Leadership" [1] is a philosophy that has served me well as a manager and as someone that has been managed by an inexperienced manager. It benefits from a strict definition of the mental state individuals go through while learning. Some of us are better at accepting the boredom that is a part of this cycle than others. The good news is that you're demonstrating the characteristics of someone less at ease with boredom, so utilizing a methodology stands the chance of offering large personal gains. This answer lists examples of the vocational application of situational leadership, focussed on stage one which is roughly: encouraging a high degree of excitement by challenging the individual to learn new skills in an interesting area. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theory https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Situational_leadership_theor...

geff82 11y ago

Try to be the leader. Try to be the one others look up to. Try to do a perfect job that everyone appreciates. Be the one who teaches others. If you did all that, you are ready to move on.

innertracks 11y ago

Cal Newport, a CS prof at Georgetown, has a blog with a related post http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/12/26/if-youre-nervous-about-quitting-your-boring-job-dont-do-it/ http://calnewport.com/blog/2009/12/26/if-youre-nervous-about... I've been absorbing his writing all week. He's focused on how people become passionate about their careers via deep focus. His blog is full of very helpful insights, research, how to tips, and case studies around passion and work.

craigds 11y ago

> My team is only 2 people and we don't work together on much of anything. I find this other person difficult to talk to. This may be a bigger part of the problem than you realise. It's incredible how much working with the right people helps. Consider working for a company that can offer you a slightly bigger team. Then at least you can choose who to have lunch with, or even choose who you get to work with. I'm a mostly-Python programmer too. One thing I like is that we work on a large-scale long-term product (as opposed to numerous short-term client projects.) If you're doing the same thing over and over for different clients you may get sick of it. (YMMV, I hear some people love starting from scratch every 3 months!) > I don't know if I'm an A-level programmer that could get a job somewhere else. Do some interviews and find out? Job markets for programmers who are good at picking things up are still pretty wide, especially if you have the flexibility to move. Especially if you know some slightly-niche technologies you're probably more in demand than you know. Come to NZ and work for us :)

rdiddly 11y ago

"I can think of other projects that have been mentioned that I would like to take on, but it seems there's always something in upper management that keeps them from getting going." Lose the passive attitude about "upper management," and go talk to them. They're just people with opinions. Talk them into supporting one of the projects that you wish you could take on, and volunteer to take it on. Stand in the room and explain persuasively, using numbers and emotions, that they can make or save money on a project. If you can't successfully construct such a pitch/argument for a given project then quite probably mgt. was correct NOT to have pursued the idea. If they are truly dysfunctional you will quickly find this out by observing how they handle it. If they shoot you down (dysfunctionally or for good reasons), you have lost nothing, but maybe it did provide a little of that needed excitement for a while. And maybe they'll admire the chutzpah and remember you later when some project comes along that they DO want to support. If they give you the green light, then you will have ample excitement for some time to come, with new things to learn and new challenges. Maybe they'll even let you hire some people to help. You can always make it a condition of your continued employment, i.e. "I am moving in such-and-such direction and would love it if the company can grow around me." (Translation: This is what I want to do, with or without you.) If it doesn't work out, THEN think about moving on. Late edit: Forgot to add: GOOD LUCK!

jondubois 11y ago

Maybe you've outgrown your place of work. When your work isn't challenging anymore, it means that you are stagnating professionally - You are not growing. You can choose the easy path and stay in the same company or you can move on to another (better) one. I've been through like 8 software companies. As soon as I felt comfortable in a particular company; that was the time to hand in my resignation; unless it was a startup which showed potential then I would stay longer. Typically, when you join a new company, you should try to be the dumbest person in the room. If you're not, then this is not the company for you. Usually being exposed to different problem domains and tooling should be challenging enough for the first 3 months.

Falkon1313 11y ago

> Is this how it is everywhere? Yes and no. We all have to do boring and repetitive or under-appreciated stuff from time to time. But there's a big difference in environments. If you work internally at a company where the product is something other than what you are working on, you may sometimes feel like an outsider and unimportant and that you have few people to talk to in a meaningful way. But you can talk to people all over the company, and learn a lot about things other than what you normally do on a day-to-day basis. You may find interesting ways to help them that they never thought of (because they're not programmers) and that you never thought of (because no one asked you to do it). That's one way to both do things that feel more meaningful and have more people to talk to. You could work for an agency, doing many short projects with a lot of variety, along with a team who does the same things. There, even the non-developers should be interested in your work so it will seem more meaningful. You should be able to try out a variety of new and interesting things. But it may still seem disorganized and lacking vision due to the many short projects. You could try working for a company where the product is the software (or SAAS) that you're developing. Then you'll likely be in a dev-oriented team and feel more at home, and your work will be more meaningful because it directly impacts everyone in the company as well as their clients/customers. It probably won't feel as disorganized and lacking vision, but you may end up working on one thing for a long time, so there's less variety. You can approach it from different angles and do different things in support of it to keep up the interest. There are trade-offs anywhere, but there's a wide variety and you can find a way to renew interest.

jedberg 11y ago

Do you like Python? If you do: Go to Pycon. Put your name on the job board. Go to interviews. Ask questions about the workplace, the work and try to really suss out the attitudes of the people there. If you still think where you work is the best place, stay there, otherwise take another offer, if you got any, and if you didn't get any, you still have a lot of data on how other places run their shops. There is no downside to interviewing. You'll get practice interviewing and you get to learn about other people work. If your current employer finds out, one of three things will happen. Either nothing at all, or they will realize they need to give you more responsibility and make your life better, or they will be resentful and try to make your life miserable. If either A or C happens, at least you know where you stand with them, and if B happens, then great! Your job is better now. At Netflix people were encouraged to interview once in a while, because we knew everyone wins. They either come back happy that their job is still the best, they bring back ideas on how to make things better, or they realize they don't want to be there anymore and move on, in which case we're all better off because we don't have someone who isn't excited about their work and they are happy in their new job.

techjuice 11y ago

Some companies do not always want the best and the top of spear developers. Sometimes a fresh slate is more rewarding. Real example, the team I am on has had several developers but those that were the hungriest and got things done right the first time were those that started out with very little experience and had super busy lives once they got off work. The individuals shows up to work earlier than needed, is always looking for something new to learn, contributes fabulous ideas that do get implemented in production and overall are normally a really good fresh breath of air. These types of people help insure that you keep up your standards and insure what you are teaching them is right as they are fresh minds and you don't want to send them down a bad path. The individuals normally have programming experience in other languages or other areas but have never had the opportunity to go deeper into the work or were only allowed to work on the easy stuff. When people join my team I like to give them something to own and grow with, which any wonderful top level developer, engineer, manager, mentor, etc. should do for those new to the team. I have found it challenges you to improve yourself, keep your documentation on point and it helps the team grow and the manager normally scratches their head when they find out their new employee has learned so much in such a small amount of time. Best part of this is you will normally be able to ramp up enough to be able to handle critical functions in less than six months, probably a small peace but very important that you have been able to master. This helps free up more time for documentation, training, critical upgrade planning and more by the top developers so they can spend more time with you bringing you up to speed. Do not worry about not being good enough, if you are what they are looking for you should be able to find this out in an interview along with being able to make a better judgement if you are a fit. If you like the pay, I recommend looking for another job that has similar or higher pay, the only way to become a better developer and engineer is to gain more experience, especially with things you have never used before. This only happens with new technology being introduced in the company or moving to a new job that uses modern technology.

fredkbloggs 11y ago

Yes, it's this way everywhere, or nearly so, and it's a peculiar disease of our place and time to imagine that it shouldn't be. The reason people work for others instead of living a preindustrial lifestyle is to get money to buy the things they don't want to make for themselves, because they believe they will come out ahead overall that way. Work is what you do for money; it's for your employer's benefit, not yours. The benefit you get is the money. If they're not paying you enough to justify giving them your time, it's time to think about doing something different: going into business for yourself, switching to part-time, working for a different employer, leaving the workforce, demanding a raise, or some other change that will make you feel like you're getting better value for your time. Your lifetime is finite and you cannot exchange money for more of it. But the idea that what you do for money should be enjoyable is embarrassingly entitled. You're supposed to be enjoying what you do with the money, not what you do for it. Again, if the two are out of balance, it's time for a change. Otherwise, put in your time, collect your money, and don't dwell on it. Employment is just a means to an end, not the end in itself, and certainly not the only one available to you.

sauronlord 11y ago

I know exactly how you feel. Really, I do. How I cope: - I hired a tax planner and MAXIMIZED the amount of money I'm saving. - I tell myself that I'm an INVESTOR, first and and foremost and that my 'boring' job at the 'reactive' company with the 'B'-players is just a transition period. See: http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50a0b8a5e4b081ffff7918bd/t/55066780e4b0f9921cd7c1c0/1426483086414/?format=500w http://static1.squarespace.com/static/50a0b8a5e4b081ffff7918... - Work on my own small projects at night - I improve things at work (Built an integration framework, introduce sorely needed technologies, improve customer support documentation, rally people around improving certain "broken" areas).

bo_Olean 11y ago

If I were in your situation I'd use that time off the actual work to learn new things. Work on open source project or start my own projects etc. Whoever you work with at the end when it comes to learning it falls back to how far you are willing to dedicate time to learning. The best way to learn is by yourself. As far as getting influenced by A level people is concerned you can get influenced by them fairly anywhere in the internet.