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CHIP Vs. Pi Zero: Which Sub-$10 Computer Is Better?
- agumonkey 11y agoWho else thinks the built-in wireless capabilities are really making a difference here ?
- Scaevolus 11y agoI'd much rather have a little wifi-connected board that I can SSH into than a little board that I can plug into a monitor.
- krzyk 11y agoSame here, I would like have IoT than a media center. I would even argue that more of Zeros will have a wifi or ethernet adapter than a HDMI connected.
- 2bluesc 11y agoI think it makes a huge difference. I'm shocked that there isn't a cheap Broadcom chip on the Pi Zero with 802.11n 2.4/5Ghz and BLE.
- analog31 11y agoLack of built-in networking is a deal breaker for me. At my house, we've been playing around with RPi for quite some time now. We haven't come up with any profound applications, but we're learning things like the Linux command line, Python, and some basic hardware hacking. Two things about networking: 1. We often go out to "sudo apt-get install" etc., to drink from the fountain of free modules that are out there. Just getting anything running seems to require network access. 2. For anything that might benefit from keyboard, mouse, and display, it turns out that the cheapest and easiest source of these things is just an old PC and PuTTY or Remote Desktop. Excited as I am by the new boards, the original Pi does what I need right now. Most of my projects are conceptual: By the time I've convinced myself that it could run on tiny iron, I'm satisfied and ready to move on to the next project. Who would ever have thought that we'd be debating about the relative merits of two $10 computers?
- agumonkey 11y agoGood point. Even for free I'd nitpick ... maybe a wifi kit would be enough.
- analog31 11y agoYes, that would be satisfactory. My only qualm is that I've experienced drop-outs with wi-fi on the RPi. Now I wonder if it's possible to bit-bang some sort of low performance Ethernet using the GPIO's.
- Tiksi 11y agoI have a mesh network of atmel 328p using nrf24l chips. The connection isn't super fast but the chips are cheap (~$1 ea. at 10 on a board ready to go), and I doubt there's anything I could/would do with a 328p that would max the data rate. They'd probably work pretty well for a low speed link on the pis. Only caveat I've found is that they're extremely picky about getting clean power on the +3.3V rail.
- nine_k 11y agoHave you tried Banana Pi? Their boards are cheaper than RPi and often have a differently balanced set of peripherals, e.g. a SATA port.
- agumonkey 11y agoSomeone bodge hacked wifi onto it http://www.hackerspace-ffm.de/wiki/index.php?title=Raspberry_PI_Zero_%2B_nano_USB_WiFi_Adapter_mod http://www.hackerspace-ffm.de/wiki/index.php?title=Raspberry...
- alexandros 11y agoWhile the CHIP comes out looking good, it's important to note the horrendous AllWinner software stack. Last time I checked, Linux support meant using an out-of-tree sourcedump that was tied to a specific version of Linux (I think 3.0.x?). The sunxi project[1] was trying to mainline a bunch of stuff, but not sure how far that is now. In general, working with the AllWinner chip is much more of a pain if you want to do non-trivial things. Perhaps the CHIP will help improve that situation. [1]: https://github.com/linux-sunxi https://github.com/linux-sunxi
- geerlingguy 11y agoI've run into this with all the AllWinner-derived boards. The software stack requires more work to set up, has more small bugs that are harder to fix (mostly because there aren't a thousand blog posts and forum topics on the exact fix, like there are with anything Pi/Broadcom-related), and has often incomprehensible documentation that's buried in forums or outdated and slow-to-load sites.
- carussell 11y agoFWIW, if anyone missed it, the author of the article here does say that the CHIP will soon be using mainline Linux, but he (unfortunately) doesn't go into detail and doesn't link to a source.
- makomk 11y agoIf you're just using it as a headless server, you can run standard Debian on this generation of Allwinner hardware. You download a Debian Jessie installer image from the Debian website, load it on an SD card, hook up a serial console and go through the install process as usual with the standard Debian-packaged kernel. Debian doesn't have the device tree specifying how hardware is hooked up on the C.H.I.P yet because it's new, so this won't yet work on it, but in theory I think that's all that's missing.
- eeZi 11y agoActually, this has lead to an extensive mainlining effort [1] which has resulted in better mainline support than many other boards. [1]: https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort https://linux-sunxi.org/Linux_mainlining_effort
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- teekert 11y agoImo, a built-in wifi module on the Pi0 would have made it massively more attractive. That way it can be put anywhere with just some sensors added. The SD card is ok, it requires no extra stuff and can even be handy for experimenting, but just adding wifi (which you want in >90% cases if you ask me) means adding a powered hub. Armv7 would have been nice for Ubuntu (Snappy Core or not).
- newman314 11y agoAgreed on a cheap board with wifi capability. It would be nice to have a board stuck in the attic without having to run wires.
- icebraining 11y agoYou don't need a powered hub, just a split USB cable that runs the power pins to the charger and the data pins to the Pi. Example: http://www.amazon.com/Insten-Micro-B-USB-Cable-Black/dp/B005M0ICG2/ref=pd_sim_147_3?ie=UTF8&dpID=41bt11uGOUL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=112E1AH44CX4GTE8MXXF http://www.amazon.com/Insten-Micro-B-USB-Cable-Black/dp/B005...
- jepler 11y agoI would not bet on this without a schematic for the new Zero to check against, or a shipping device to test it on. I suspect that the D-/D+ lines of the PWR port are not even connected to the SOC. The linked cable is probably not appropriate anyway since it is USB 3.0. The 3.0 "B" plug is not compatible with a 2.0 "B" receptacle. Edit: As far as I can tell from this information about the SOC http://elinux.org/RPi_BCM2835_Pinout http://elinux.org/RPi_BCM2835_Pinout there is only one pair of USB D-/D+ lines. I don't see another IC that could act as an onboard hub, so I think it's hardware limited to supporting a single USB port.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- icebraining 11y ago
- X-Istence 11y agoHey, at least the Pi Zero is secure. It takes the I out of IoT :P
- slxh 11y agoand you can always add networking whenever you need it
- mwcampbell 11y agoDoes anyone know if the CHIP has analog audio output through a 3.5mm jack? If not, can anyone recommend a cheap ($50 or below) single-board computer that has WiFi and analog audio output?
- xena 11y agoI have a board in front of me. It in fact does.
- mwcampbell 11y agoHave you played audio on it? How's the quality and reliability? For example, does it have background noise or limited volume like the Pi model B/B+ (which actually uses pulse width modulation rather than 16-bit PCM)?
- SwellJoe 11y agoI'm also curious on this front. My interest in the C.H.I.P. or one of those interests would be to have a tiny computer for music experiments. The Pocket add-on would make this a very nice little chiptune machine, if it has some sort of audio output that can be worked with. Running existing Linux compatible trackers, or building a small custom thing, would be reasonably easy if it has 16 bit PCM that is reasonably clean. Even one channel would be sufficient for this purpose, though stereo is fun, too.
- tracker1 11y agoJust curious, is innexpensive a requirement, and would one of the nuc/brix setups work for you?
- SwellJoe 11y agoNah, I like the PocketCHIP thingy which has a screen and keyboard. I currently mostly use a Gameboy (the original style in a grey box, running LSDJ) for portable music fun. But, a more realistically programmable toy with the same basic form factor (pocket sized computer with a hardware keyboard) running Linux would be ideal. I could use a programming environment I'm familiar with, and work directly on the device itself (no need for cross-compiling and such). I don't really think of my Gameboy as programmable, despite knowing vaguely how to put together system to build for it and how to run an emulator for testing. I just don't want to program within those limitations, even though I appreciate the art that goes into doing so (and think very highly of the author of LSDJ). The very small PC form factor (like a NUC or brix) requires a monitor and a keyboard. A tablet with a keyboard more closely fits the bill, but also isn't ideal. I have a tablet, but can't really develop directly on the device, as far as I know. I want a self-contained pocket sized toy for tinkering with, without need for an external build system. CHIP with the Pocket add-on fits that bill perfectly, at a great price.
- kevinpet 11y agoThis piece strikes me as downright dishonest. The table purports to be apples to apples, but while the HDMI adapter added in for the pi zero, the $13 HDMI add-on board is not included in the cost section of the CHIP. An honest comparison would be $23 vs $24 with HDMI, or $10 vs. some lower cost for the pi zero subtracting out the HDMI cable. I'm also skeptical of including the OTG adapter. Maybe it's needed for some purposes, but it's not a generally needed component. The CHIP appears to be better for IOT experimentation, but the PI is intended to be a general purpose computer, which also includes some hardware integration tinkering capability.
- ctdonath 11y agoFor this class of gadget, ok to leave out parts that a large percentage of users have lying around or otherwise won't need.
- makomk 11y agoYou need the OTG adapter if you want to connect it to a network, or a keyboard and mouse, or anything really. The only USB port on the Pi Zero is the micro-B OTG one. There are lots of interesting applications for the Pi that don't use HDMI at all, but few that don't use networking or a keyboard
- lambda 11y agoThe thing they seem to be missing here is that the CHIP isn't a sub-$10 computer. They did a sub-$10 Kickstarter as a marketing effort, but their BOM on this chip is over $10, so it's apparent that they were doing the Kickstarter at a loss just for publicity. https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-news-tell-people-that-you-will-make-and-sell-something-which-cost-you-20-for-9/ https://olimex.wordpress.com/2015/06/05/how-to-get-in-the-ne... The C.H.I.P. manufacturers disagree, and say that it really will be $9 when shipping, but given that it's still vaporware at the moment, it doesn't really make sense to compare to something that has already shipped tens (hundreds?) of thousands of units.
- Gys 11y agoVaporware !?!? I have two of them sitting next to me on my desk...
- gruez 11y agoHe meant $9 CHIP at scale, after the kickstarter orders have been shipped is vaporware
- Gys 11y agoThe CHIP (which really exists) can be ordered for $8 at the moment: http://getchip.com/ http://getchip.com/ I understand the company and its product are not as well known as Raspberry Pi. But calling it vaporware while they actually have shipped what they promised and seem to continue doing that is unfair. Sure, they have less of a history and track record but so far there is absolutely no reason for any doubt. Even the mere fact that Rasberry Pi (which he obviously trusts) can make a 'pc' for $5 makes it feasible for another company to make something for $9...
- detrino 11y agoYou can not order anything on that page. Besides, there is absolutely reason for doubt when the BoM is estimated to be more than $9.
- baxter001 11y agoI'm not really wowed by any element of the Pi0, the drastic component count and associated feature reduction make both the small size and cost unimpressive. I hate to play this old tune: bit I can't imagine an application that doesn't push the cost up past the £15.50 of the A+ just to reach feature parity.
- owenversteeg 11y agoI'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the elephant in the room: CHIP's real cost. Sure, CHIP "sells" at $9, but "shipping" costs $20. This "shipping" cost remains the same per unit even for multiple items, even when they ship together. Given that shipping from China is subsidized such that actual CHIP shipping costs should be under $1, the "shipping" is clearly paying for the CHIP. Sure, CHIP is a solid device at $29, and the fact that the CHIP manufacturers pulled off a successful hardware Kickstarter is a feat of its own. But claiming that CHIP is a $9 computer is ridiculous. Additionally, as another commenter mentioned, the CHIP's cost total didn't include a display cable, $13. Re-run the comparison... and the costs come to $46 CHIP, $24 Raspi Zero.
- yeukhon 11y agoHere from US. Element 14 charged shipping + tax = $6.55 + $3.69, total almost $46 for model B. I ordered B+ from MCM (which I believe is also under the same parent company as Element 14) and came at $9.99 shipping without tax. Does CHIP order charge tax? I don't think the elephant in the room is just the shipping cost, the overall cost of getting this tiny computer up and running is beyond just some tax and shipping cost. You have to get an SD card, power adapter and an HDMI. Tons of people still run DVI or VGA. If you have a monitor without HDMI you are fucked so you have to buy a converter. I didn't have these so I got them off Amazon and the final cost probably came at about $100? I didn't even get the case, because I made one out of cardboard. If you have more than one Pi, you need another SD card, another charger, another HDMI cable, so again you are back to full price. There should really be just a way to connect all PIs to a single USB-powered portable drive. SD card is such as poor choice and a poor design decision choice. Sorry. PI is great for small project, but if there weren't fund for schools to buy all the accessories, I don't know if Pi would take off at $35 price range. It is never $35. Let alone in Zero's case, agree, definitely not at $5. Fair enough, marketing stun and it may be true that the computer itself is $5, but the fineprint "you have to get the rest yourself at another $30+" is assumed to be common sense. Oh not to mention the cost of waiting to get one of these tiny computers.
- icebraining 11y ago$100 for an USB power adapter, an SD card and an HDMI cable? You got ripped off. You can get the three for less than $20. 16GB Kingston card: $5.26 AmazonBasics USB charger (2 Amp): $5.99 AmazonBasics high-speed HDMI cable: $4.82
- mkoryak 11y agoI bought a "banana pi" which had specs that made it look like a rpi2 killer, but cheaper. You get what you pay for. 2/3 usb ports never worked. The support was pretty much non-existent. If the CHIP is anything like that, I don't care if it has 16 gigs of ram. The hardware doesn't matter if you cant figure out how to use any of it.
- lsllc 11y agoPicked up an RPi0 yesterday at MicroCenter in Cambridge MA for $5+tax. The power supply was $7.99+tax, $6.99+tax for an 8GB µSD card and I'll have to buy a 40-pin header for it and solder that on, not to mention time to find a ARMv6 distro and burn it ... and still no connectivity (Linux Wifi? Yuck!) ... so yeah, TCO rules! Not sure the C.H.I.P. will be much better (I am a Kickstarter backer) so I will probably stick with the BBB @ $55/ea or RPi2 @ $40/ea (both not including PSU); at least they both run Ubuntu Snappy and have ethernet built in.
- tracker1 11y agoI've tried several similar systems, as well as a couple of Cubox's and I'll include the Ouya here. All of which had some promise, but really failed to deliver. In the end, today, my htpc is an i3-5010U brix that I've been pretty happy with. It does cost a lot more. I'm hoping the x86 compute sticks will become more available at the sub-100. I do hope that things improve, but in my own experience, I have not enjoyed these little arm boards which have left me feeling far more locked in than the more proprietary and expensive x86 stuff has. Though gpio seems cool, I haven't had as much need for it so much as a desire for a cheap general platform to run stuff with video out from.
- ddingus 11y agoFor those of you expressing thoughts on the actual, "got it working now" cost being significantly higher than $5, you are right, but that's not the point. Hobby people will pick up 5 of these things and burn though them like components, building this and that with stuff they largely have laying around. I'm in this camp, and I really could plug the $5 unit in and do something meaningful with it. Besides, $5 isn't much. Anyone exerting any effort at all to package it, kit it, etc... is going to need some margin for that to all make sense. $50 kits are perfectly reasonable. It's plug 'n play that way. If you want to do your own plugging and playing, that's $5, straight up. Nothing of concern. Which one is better? To me, it's all about the ecosystem. That puts the Pi on top by a mile. Tons of support, software, etc... plus there is a high chance of friends being into it, or finding the same, if learning is the goal. No brainer. Personally, I think this is awesome! Long ago, I got into a discussion about hand calculators and school. I was young, but I was mouthy and said, "these things will be in the Freddy's Five Dollar Bin right as you walk in the door soon." A few years later, there they were. $4.99, in that bin, right by the door. These things will end up somewhere like that too. Not quite the same as the calculator, but they are basically disposable compute units for cheap. Get a 10 pack, and use 'em. Get another 10 pack, and use those. For people in developing places, that low cost matters. For people in poverty overall, it matters. It's all great to see.
- robbles 11y agoI've tried a lot of different development boards, and my experience has been that the OS, drivers, and available software resources make more of a difference for the kind of projects most people use these for. RPi and their community did a great job of making it straightforward to setup and connect things, even when some extra hardware was necessary. I had the opposite experience with multiple versions of the Beagle board, where there were numerous software driver issues and endless half baked guides on using the hardware. I hope that the CHIP boards follow their example, otherwise I'd be very wary of touted benefits like pre-soldered headers and a newer ARM chip instead of "our mission requires it to be easy to use".