4 ms·

You have to look at the 0.2% in relation to the salary that they offer. And, many companies do allow you to negotiate the salary vs options trade-off.

by karterk 11y ago

lewisl9029 11y ago
>And, many companies do allow you to negotiate the salary vs options trade-off. That's definitely true in principle. But in practice, it might not be a great idea. I actually tried to negotiate the salary vs options tradeoff recently, and I feel it didn't end well because even though I tried to be as objective as possible, the fact that I didn't want equity might have given the impression that I didn't really believe in the startup (which was true, since I really didn't believe they had any chance of becoming a billion dollar company, but it's not the kind of impression you'd want to leave if you want the job).
- knughit 11y ago
  So, the process worked. The company finds people who have the most interest in the company's success, within the set of hirable candidates
  - chii 11y ago
    Aka, people they can rip off the easiest. I m not saying they can't do this, but I want more people to not agree, because it's a bad deal and makes the market worse off for employees.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - lewisl9029 11y ago
    You can be interested in the company's success without being delusional about the limits of its potential for success.
BinaryIdiot 11y ago
> You have to look at the 0.2% in relation to the salary that they offer I disagree. Salary is a real thing that you can use today. Options at a start-up? Some studies indicate that start-up failure is at 90% within the first 3 years. This means those options, 90% of the time, don't mean anything. They're literally useless. The other 10% of the time? Depending on percentage, dilution and exit (IPO? Sale? Neither?) it's still difficult to get a return on those options in any reasonable timeframe. In my opinion you should NEVER sacrifice salary for options UNLESS it's an established company where you can see how to get your money out of those options. There is a TON of competition out there for talent, if a company wants a quality candidate they will pay for one.
- karterk 11y ago
  I agree, but unfortunately that's not how it works. All founders believe that they can succeed. Every VC believes that their investment is going to become the next billion dollar company, etc. Ideally, options are the icing on cake, but the reality is that most companies use options as a way to reduce their immediate expenses - for start-ups, cash is like oxygen. Most start-ups die not because of their competition, but they run out of money.
- paulddraper 11y ago
  What study is that? In any case, success is (mostly) not rolling a dice. Good planning, strategy, skill, and past experience make a huge difference. I doubt 10% chance of success is the best you can do.

You have to look at the 0.2% in relation to the salary that they offer. And, many companies do allow you to negotiate the salary vs options trade-off.

by karterk 11y ago

You have to look at the 0.2% in relation to the salary that they offer. And, many companies do allow you to negotiate the salary vs options trade-off.

lewisl9029 11y ago

>And, many companies do allow you to negotiate the salary vs options trade-off. That's definitely true in principle. But in practice, it might not be a great idea. I actually tried to negotiate the salary vs options tradeoff recently, and I feel it didn't end well because even though I tried to be as objective as possible, the fact that I didn't want equity might have given the impression that I didn't really believe in the startup (which was true, since I really didn't believe they had any chance of becoming a billion dollar company, but it's not the kind of impression you'd want to leave if you want the job).

knughit 11y ago
So, the process worked. The company finds people who have the most interest in the company's success, within the set of hirable candidates
- chii 11y ago
  Aka, people they can rip off the easiest. I m not saying they can't do this, but I want more people to not agree, because it's a bad deal and makes the market worse off for employees.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- lewisl9029 11y ago
  You can be interested in the company's success without being delusional about the limits of its potential for success.

BinaryIdiot 11y ago

> You have to look at the 0.2% in relation to the salary that they offer I disagree. Salary is a real thing that you can use today. Options at a start-up? Some studies indicate that start-up failure is at 90% within the first 3 years. This means those options, 90% of the time, don't mean anything. They're literally useless. The other 10% of the time? Depending on percentage, dilution and exit (IPO? Sale? Neither?) it's still difficult to get a return on those options in any reasonable timeframe. In my opinion you should NEVER sacrifice salary for options UNLESS it's an established company where you can see how to get your money out of those options. There is a TON of competition out there for talent, if a company wants a quality candidate they will pay for one.

karterk 11y ago
I agree, but unfortunately that's not how it works. All founders believe that they can succeed. Every VC believes that their investment is going to become the next billion dollar company, etc. Ideally, options are the icing on cake, but the reality is that most companies use options as a way to reduce their immediate expenses - for start-ups, cash is like oxygen. Most start-ups die not because of their competition, but they run out of money.
paulddraper 11y ago
What study is that? In any case, success is (mostly) not rolling a dice. Good planning, strategy, skill, and past experience make a huge difference. I doubt 10% chance of success is the best you can do.