5 ms·

Earlier this year, when I realized that all of the old Infocom games were in the public domain, I spent some time playing Zork I, Border Zone, and HHGTTG -- the

Earlier this year, when I realized that all of the old Infocom games were in the public domain, I spent some time playing Zork I, Border Zone, and HHGTTG -- the ones I played most often when I was younger. There was some sentimental fun to be had, but these games take a tremendous amount of time to play and are difficult in a way that modern games are not. Their puzzles are almost unsolvable in some cases, or can only be solved by combining every permutation of every verb with every noun in every place to get the right answer. Relative to what's available in the modern gaming realm as well as conventional fiction, I've also been pretty underwhelmed by what the Interactive Fiction community is putting out, especially the games that are purely web-based. There are some authors, Andrew Plotkin comes to mind, that have picked up the Infocom torch, but the feeling that you are using 0.1% of what your computer can do at about 5% of the rate your mind can work is difficult to shake for me in our modern era.

mrob 11y ago
None of the Infocom games are in the public domain. The copyright of most of them is held by Activision, which sells them as iOS ports.
- jordanpg 11y ago
  Oops! Err, I just made that assumption based on the ease I had in finding them. There are a variety of places to download them right off the web.
  - zokier 11y ago
    That is generally quite bad assumption to make. Safer one would be to assume that everything is under copyright unless indubiously demonstrated otherwise.
    - mcguire 11y ago
      That would be roughly what the law says.
      - qnaal 11y ago
        guess it's a good thing then that society is crumbling
- pervycreeper 11y ago
  That is correct, although certain versions of Zork I are freely licensed.
CaptSpify 11y ago
> There was some sentimental fun to be had, but these games take a tremendous amount of time to play and are difficult in a way that modern games are not. Their puzzles are almost unsolvable in some cases, or can only be solved by combining every permutation of every verb with every noun in every place to get the right answer. It's interesting how intolerable these games would be considered today. I have a choice of thousands of games on steam (not to mention other platforms), many for less than $5. I would give these games such a bad rating, not for "lack of graphics" or anything technological, but for lack of smooth gameplay. But I loved them, and they are considered foundationial to current games. It's also interesting to me how much time I spent patiently trying different solutions. Nowadays, if I don't get a puzzle in ~30 min, I'm off to google the answer. I think we're way better off now, but I think there was some dedication/patience/pure-effort that we've lost with our vast number of choices, and access to information.
- sanoli 11y ago
  > if I don't get a puzzle in ~30 min, I'm off to google the answer. The only loss here is that the reward in googling the answer will never come close to the high of figuring a puzzle out after 2 days.
  - mgkimsal 11y ago
    We always had the option of the "invisiclues" but... you had to order those and wait (time and money) or drive to a local computer store and buy (money). Both put a damper on the urge to "cheat".
    - csixty4 11y ago
      > you had to order those and wait And those were the days of "Please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery". Not like ordering something on Amazon and getting it the next day.
    - ghaff 11y ago
      In so many ways, Invisiclues are a fascinating relic. That they existed (and were extremely popular) speaks to a number of different aspects to technology between then and now. (And, as I recall, Invisiclues were also available as some sort of 900 number service at one point.)
lambda 11y ago
Why do you need to need to be using the full capacity of your computer, if you are having fun? One of the real advantages of interactive fiction in the modern era is that it can afford to take more risks, narratively, than a AAA title. Since it can be the work of a single person as a hobby or small business, rather than needing mass-market sales to repay for its development, you can try out different things, some of which may not work out but some of which can be fascinating. Beside Andrew Plotkin, I've always loved the work of Emily Short, like Galatea which couldn't even really be considered a game but is quite fascinating.
- TuringTest 11y ago
  I was going to say the same thing. I also love Galatea BTW, it's a showcase of good storytelling, and the best NPC I've ever found. Have you played Blood & Laurels? I don't own and iOS device, but from what I've heard, it must be like Galatea with a whole city available to explore.
  - lazerwalker 11y ago
    Tragically, Blood & Laurels isn't available any more. It stopped working on iOS 9, and rather than update it, they pulled the app.
    - dfan 11y ago
      It wasn't really possible for the creators to update it, unfortunately (for one thing, the company they originally built it for ditched it): https://twitter.com/emshort/status/653222041265537028 https://twitter.com/emshort/status/653222041265537028
  - lambda 11y ago
    No, I don't own an iOS device; I refuse to support walled gardens financially. So I don't play any iOS or console-only games.
- the_af 11y ago
  I love Plotkin's games. "Spider & Web" is one of the best games I've ever played... even if it gets a bit too difficult near the end, the premise and implementation is almost flawless. I've seen few games like it, "full capacity of your computer" be damned! :) Adam Cadre is also good. One short game by him I loved and found hilarious is "9:05" ( http://adamcadre.ac/if/905.html http://adamcadre.ac/if/905.html ) -- please don't spoil it! -- and there is also the deeply moving "Photopia" ( http://adamcadre.ac/if/photopia.html http://adamcadre.ac/if/photopia.html ). Interactive Fiction was a breath of fresh air to me. Experimental, funny, innovative, emotional. There was a time, a few years ago, when IF games were about the only kind of games which could hold my interest.
lazerwalker 11y ago
Have you checked out Em Short's work? A lot of her pieces are more fiction-heavy than "gamey", but if you're looking for a more Infocom-esque experience then Counterfeit Monkey is an absolutely stunning example. Going down another thread, have you been keeping abreast of non-parser IF? There are a lot of incredibly polished, beautiful pieces of choice-based IF for mobile platforms (check out 80 Days if you haven't), as well as a whole lot of wonderful, incredibly deep and personal works happening in Twine.
spanktheuser 11y ago
>> Their puzzles are almost unsolvable in some cases, or can only be solved by combining every permutation of every verb with every noun in every place to get the right answer. That's an interesting reaction. I spent my teenage years playing Infocom games and agree that some of the puzzles were quite difficult. But they always seemed logical and discoverable - the opposite of random. Several friends played as well, and I remember many a study hall spent noodling through solutions to various puzzles. Some took weeks, and the sense of pride we found when cracking something particularly vexing was immense. I think there is a parallel in modern gaming: difficult raid bosses in MMORPGs. Solving the Babelfish problem in HHGTG = defeating Ragnaros for the first time in vanilla World of Warcraft.
- sixothree 11y ago
  Try going back and playing these games. I find they are quite difficult to wrap your head around. I played a large number of these games as a youth, including the notoriously hard A Ming Forever Voyaging. And I find I have a hard time enjoying them as an adult. Maybe I need to give it another go. Maybe it's the pace of the puzzles. I know I spent a long time solving individual puzzles in Spell Breaker and it took combined effort with another friend to make it through.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    Surprised that you found AMFV to be notoriously hard. As I recall, it was less puzzle-oriented than most of Infocom's games. It may be my personal favorite precisely because it wasn't so much about working your way through difficult puzzles.
the_af 11y ago
Classic Infocom games are probably too hard, but you should give modern Interactive Fiction another chance. Because anyone can write IF games, and this means Sturgeon's Law applies, you should look for the masters first: Andrew Plotkin, Adam Cadre, Emily Short, and I'm sure I'm missing many more. Modern IF can be emotional, suspenseful, hilarious, surprising, experimental. There is a downplaying of "gamey" elements, and more focus is there in the storytelling or using the textual platform in surprising ways. For example, one game -- Fail Safe by Jon Ingold -- has the player trying to communicate with the single surviving crew member of a spaceship in distress. Communication is limited, and the game's parser is the crew member. Anything the crew member doesn't understand is turned into a comms error ("zzhghfz... sorry, can you repeat that?"). It feels natural because it means you're not simply typing verbs; instead, you are "giving commands" to a person! Anyway, play the game: it's innovative like only modern IF can be.
PostOnce 11y ago
They're not public domain, where'd you get that idea? Copyright lasts a very very long time now and Activision is no charity. they're still commercially available on Gog.com they were temporarily offered as freeware to promote a later game, but that neither makes them permanently freeware nor public domain. if they are public domain and I've somehow missed that happening id love to hear about it
Schwolop 11y ago
If you wait a few more years for the industry to develop its narrative legs, I think you'll really enjoy playing Escape Room Games (ERGs). Very few have any semblance of story at this point, but it's absolutely a topic of discussion amongst ERG designers. For my own part, I'm busy building a platform/operating system for ERGs that is essentially a version of Z-machine that interacts with hardware and handles multiple players (readers) simultaneously. All going well, in the future it will power a lot of ERGs by better storytellers than myself.

mrob 11y ago

None of the Infocom games are in the public domain. The copyright of most of them is held by Activision, which sells them as iOS ports.

jordanpg 11y ago
Oops! Err, I just made that assumption based on the ease I had in finding them. There are a variety of places to download them right off the web.
- zokier 11y ago
  That is generally quite bad assumption to make. Safer one would be to assume that everything is under copyright unless indubiously demonstrated otherwise.
  - mcguire 11y ago
    That would be roughly what the law says.
    - qnaal 11y ago
      guess it's a good thing then that society is crumbling
pervycreeper 11y ago
That is correct, although certain versions of Zork I are freely licensed.

CaptSpify 11y ago

> There was some sentimental fun to be had, but these games take a tremendous amount of time to play and are difficult in a way that modern games are not. Their puzzles are almost unsolvable in some cases, or can only be solved by combining every permutation of every verb with every noun in every place to get the right answer. It's interesting how intolerable these games would be considered today. I have a choice of thousands of games on steam (not to mention other platforms), many for less than $5. I would give these games such a bad rating, not for "lack of graphics" or anything technological, but for lack of smooth gameplay. But I loved them, and they are considered foundationial to current games. It's also interesting to me how much time I spent patiently trying different solutions. Nowadays, if I don't get a puzzle in ~30 min, I'm off to google the answer. I think we're way better off now, but I think there was some dedication/patience/pure-effort that we've lost with our vast number of choices, and access to information.

sanoli 11y ago
> if I don't get a puzzle in ~30 min, I'm off to google the answer. The only loss here is that the reward in googling the answer will never come close to the high of figuring a puzzle out after 2 days.
- mgkimsal 11y ago
  We always had the option of the "invisiclues" but... you had to order those and wait (time and money) or drive to a local computer store and buy (money). Both put a damper on the urge to "cheat".
  - csixty4 11y ago
    > you had to order those and wait And those were the days of "Please allow 6-8 weeks for delivery". Not like ordering something on Amazon and getting it the next day.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    In so many ways, Invisiclues are a fascinating relic. That they existed (and were extremely popular) speaks to a number of different aspects to technology between then and now. (And, as I recall, Invisiclues were also available as some sort of 900 number service at one point.)

lambda 11y ago

Why do you need to need to be using the full capacity of your computer, if you are having fun? One of the real advantages of interactive fiction in the modern era is that it can afford to take more risks, narratively, than a AAA title. Since it can be the work of a single person as a hobby or small business, rather than needing mass-market sales to repay for its development, you can try out different things, some of which may not work out but some of which can be fascinating. Beside Andrew Plotkin, I've always loved the work of Emily Short, like Galatea which couldn't even really be considered a game but is quite fascinating.

TuringTest 11y ago
I was going to say the same thing. I also love Galatea BTW, it's a showcase of good storytelling, and the best NPC I've ever found. Have you played Blood & Laurels? I don't own and iOS device, but from what I've heard, it must be like Galatea with a whole city available to explore.
- lazerwalker 11y ago
  Tragically, Blood & Laurels isn't available any more. It stopped working on iOS 9, and rather than update it, they pulled the app.
  - dfan 11y ago
    It wasn't really possible for the creators to update it, unfortunately (for one thing, the company they originally built it for ditched it): https://twitter.com/emshort/status/653222041265537028 https://twitter.com/emshort/status/653222041265537028
- lambda 11y ago
  No, I don't own an iOS device; I refuse to support walled gardens financially. So I don't play any iOS or console-only games.
the_af 11y ago
I love Plotkin's games. "Spider & Web" is one of the best games I've ever played... even if it gets a bit too difficult near the end, the premise and implementation is almost flawless. I've seen few games like it, "full capacity of your computer" be damned! :) Adam Cadre is also good. One short game by him I loved and found hilarious is "9:05" ( http://adamcadre.ac/if/905.html http://adamcadre.ac/if/905.html ) -- please don't spoil it! -- and there is also the deeply moving "Photopia" ( http://adamcadre.ac/if/photopia.html http://adamcadre.ac/if/photopia.html ). Interactive Fiction was a breath of fresh air to me. Experimental, funny, innovative, emotional. There was a time, a few years ago, when IF games were about the only kind of games which could hold my interest.

lazerwalker 11y ago

Have you checked out Em Short's work? A lot of her pieces are more fiction-heavy than "gamey", but if you're looking for a more Infocom-esque experience then Counterfeit Monkey is an absolutely stunning example. Going down another thread, have you been keeping abreast of non-parser IF? There are a lot of incredibly polished, beautiful pieces of choice-based IF for mobile platforms (check out 80 Days if you haven't), as well as a whole lot of wonderful, incredibly deep and personal works happening in Twine.

spanktheuser 11y ago

>> Their puzzles are almost unsolvable in some cases, or can only be solved by combining every permutation of every verb with every noun in every place to get the right answer. That's an interesting reaction. I spent my teenage years playing Infocom games and agree that some of the puzzles were quite difficult. But they always seemed logical and discoverable - the opposite of random. Several friends played as well, and I remember many a study hall spent noodling through solutions to various puzzles. Some took weeks, and the sense of pride we found when cracking something particularly vexing was immense. I think there is a parallel in modern gaming: difficult raid bosses in MMORPGs. Solving the Babelfish problem in HHGTG = defeating Ragnaros for the first time in vanilla World of Warcraft.

sixothree 11y ago
Try going back and playing these games. I find they are quite difficult to wrap your head around. I played a large number of these games as a youth, including the notoriously hard A Ming Forever Voyaging. And I find I have a hard time enjoying them as an adult. Maybe I need to give it another go. Maybe it's the pace of the puzzles. I know I spent a long time solving individual puzzles in Spell Breaker and it took combined effort with another friend to make it through.
- ghaff 11y ago
  Surprised that you found AMFV to be notoriously hard. As I recall, it was less puzzle-oriented than most of Infocom's games. It may be my personal favorite precisely because it wasn't so much about working your way through difficult puzzles.

the_af 11y ago

Classic Infocom games are probably too hard, but you should give modern Interactive Fiction another chance. Because anyone can write IF games, and this means Sturgeon's Law applies, you should look for the masters first: Andrew Plotkin, Adam Cadre, Emily Short, and I'm sure I'm missing many more. Modern IF can be emotional, suspenseful, hilarious, surprising, experimental. There is a downplaying of "gamey" elements, and more focus is there in the storytelling or using the textual platform in surprising ways. For example, one game -- Fail Safe by Jon Ingold -- has the player trying to communicate with the single surviving crew member of a spaceship in distress. Communication is limited, and the game's parser is the crew member. Anything the crew member doesn't understand is turned into a comms error ("zzhghfz... sorry, can you repeat that?"). It feels natural because it means you're not simply typing verbs; instead, you are "giving commands" to a person! Anyway, play the game: it's innovative like only modern IF can be.

PostOnce 11y ago

They're not public domain, where'd you get that idea? Copyright lasts a very very long time now and Activision is no charity. they're still commercially available on Gog.com they were temporarily offered as freeware to promote a later game, but that neither makes them permanently freeware nor public domain. if they are public domain and I've somehow missed that happening id love to hear about it

Schwolop 11y ago

If you wait a few more years for the industry to develop its narrative legs, I think you'll really enjoy playing Escape Room Games (ERGs). Very few have any semblance of story at this point, but it's absolutely a topic of discussion amongst ERG designers. For my own part, I'm busy building a platform/operating system for ERGs that is essentially a version of Z-machine that interacts with hardware and handles multiple players (readers) simultaneously. All going well, in the future it will power a lot of ERGs by better storytellers than myself.