6 ms·

Why has Italian cinema lost its appeal abroad?

58 points by prismatic 11y ago

personlurking 11y ago
I suggest the films of Nanni Moretti and Paolo Sorrentino (mentioned in the article). http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604335/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604335/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0815204/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0815204/ Io Sono Li is also a good, rather recent film. For documentaries, try Videocracy and Women Bodies (aka Il Corpo Delle Donne), the latter of which is on Youtube. BBC did a series called Italy Unpacked where two guys travel around Italy experiencing its cuisine. Italy, Love it or Leave it is on my list of documentaries to see but I have yet to find it available somewhere. As for TV, try Gomorra La Serie and/or Inspector Montalbano.
- guard-of-terra 11y ago
  The latest loud Sorrentino movie is quite awful. I don't know, maybe hardcore movie fans find something in it, but this demographic is thin these days. For me as a common viewer, every single Italian movie I've seen in the last years was much better. And I'm talking random stuff from festivals.
  - simo7 11y ago
    True that, "La Grande Bellezza" was awful, yet it managed to win an oscar for what is worth.
    - siscia 11y ago
      I loved "La Grande Bellezza", but I am italian...
      - guard-of-terra 11y ago
        What for? I'm genuinely curious. The only thing that kept me wondering thru the film is - where do those people get that kind of money to make their life style possible? Now, if he made a film explaining THAT, I would be first to watch. Otherwise, characters are ageing impostors, but first of all boring.
        siscia 11y ago
        I can't really explain... I can try thought... It make a clear picture of the decay of Rome, it make you see what people thing, what are their values, why the behave the way the do... Everything is completely clear.
        jacobolus 11y ago
        I’m an American, and I very much enjoyed La Grande Bellezza. I thought it was a fascinating glimpse of a world I otherwise know nothing about. It was also a visually engaging movie with some gorgeous scenery and nice camera work.
    - zz1 11y ago
      Except that isn't Sorrentino's last film. And both Youth and La grande bellezza are beautiful movies.
    - dgudkov 11y ago
      What's awful in "La Grande Bellezza"?
- DanBC 11y ago
  The movie Gomorra is great, as is Il Divo. I'd be interested in a list of good Italian films since the year 2000. (That's just an arbitrary cut off.) Especially if they have ahem YIFY try before you buy samples.
atemerev 11y ago
Try watching "The Best of Youth" (La meglio gioventù), it is fantastic.
blue1 11y ago
Not just abroad. In the latest decades the cultural production of Italy has been, on average, rather embarrassing. As an Italian, I have developed an easy heuristic: if it is an Italian title (either book, song or movie, whatever) it is likely to be bad. Exceptions exist, but they are rare. It is true that what gets exported from a country is usually the best, so one probably encounters the local bad and the foreign best, but cultural production of Italy certainly was better once. It is as if my country has suffered some kind of creative collapse.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- spooningtamarin 11y ago
  It's probably corruption. It eliminates competition and breeds mediocrity. If your capital isn't allocated fairly results will be pretty bad.
  - simo7 11y ago
    This wouldn't explain why it used to be so good in the past though.
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Soviet cinema had lots of masterpieces without "fair allocation of capital" (and lots of corruption one would presume). And I wouldn't call the Hollywood situation of giving multi-million dollar budgets to BS like Transformers and spare change to far better movies a "fair allocation" either when it comes to artistic merit. When it comes to art, allocation of capital and "efficient markets" just means more popular works get more money -- it doesn't say anything about their quality, which is part of what the article is about. (Expecting accusations of 'elitism', I'm not talking about esoteric, self-congratulatory arthouse films either. The Godfellas for example, a mighty good movie, is anything but that, or Pulp Fiction (or, at their era, The Searchers, Vertigo etc.).
    - icebraining 11y ago
csydas 11y ago
I'd suggest access in general is a problem. In the past, this can be simply written off as the difficulty in moving and translating the works, but this hasn't been an issue for a very long time. I'm a bit of a fair-weather fan of Italian cinema insomuch that I usually enjoy what I am able to find online that gets translated. My partner is close to fluency in Italian and loves watching Italian film to test her understanding, but we find ourselves constantly struggling to locate any reliable source for Italian film, legally or otherwise acquired. The most famous pieces of Italian cinema are certainly obtainable, but exploring the rest just seems to be a fools errand. I'm not sure whether the Italian studios don't want to take the time, if Publishers world-wide don't see the return on investment for spreading Italian film, or what is stopping access, but there can be no interest if there's no chance in getting at the film.
imaginenore 11y ago
La grande bellezza / The Great Beauty was quite good.
erikpukinskis 11y ago
It's funny, I see this anti- self-consciousness stance more and more. Objections to hipsters. Objections to political correctness. We're at a funny time where we sort of remember the time when we weren't all splayed out on the internet in front of each other, and we can still pine for a return to that... We have given up some important things that are worth trying to get back. But unfortunately for these people, I think we're only seeing the beginning. And we'll be horrified at what the next generation will share publicly and demand space for in the public discourse. The Internet wants to see everything and it is only getting stronger. It's "eye" will grow 1000x every thirty years for the next century. The swaggering unselfconscious architype she misses is going to increasingly read as tone-deaf until we reach the next civil rights plateau. Minimally we'll need free basic medical care and housing for all humans. At that point I think he swagger could come back in full blast--nothing wrong with a little self-aggrandizement if everyone is fed and people are enjoying watching.
cafard 11y ago
Also: in the US foreign (or at least European) movies seem to attract an aging demographic.

58 points by prismatic 11y ago

I suggest the films of Nanni Moretti and Paolo Sorrentino (mentioned in the article). http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604335/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0604335/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0815204/ http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0815204/ Io Sono Li is also a good, rather recent film. For documentaries, try Videocracy and Women Bodies (aka Il Corpo Delle Donne), the latter of which is on Youtube. BBC did a series called Italy Unpacked where two guys travel around Italy experiencing its cuisine. Italy, Love it or Leave it is on my list of documentaries to see but I have yet to find it available somewhere. As for TV, try Gomorra La Serie and/or Inspector Montalbano.

guard-of-terra 11y ago
The latest loud Sorrentino movie is quite awful. I don't know, maybe hardcore movie fans find something in it, but this demographic is thin these days. For me as a common viewer, every single Italian movie I've seen in the last years was much better. And I'm talking random stuff from festivals.
- simo7 11y ago
  True that, "La Grande Bellezza" was awful, yet it managed to win an oscar for what is worth.
  - siscia 11y ago
    I loved "La Grande Bellezza", but I am italian...
    - guard-of-terra 11y ago
      What for? I'm genuinely curious. The only thing that kept me wondering thru the film is - where do those people get that kind of money to make their life style possible? Now, if he made a film explaining THAT, I would be first to watch. Otherwise, characters are ageing impostors, but first of all boring.
      - siscia 11y ago
        I can't really explain... I can try thought... It make a clear picture of the decay of Rome, it make you see what people thing, what are their values, why the behave the way the do... Everything is completely clear.
      - jacobolus 11y ago
        I’m an American, and I very much enjoyed La Grande Bellezza. I thought it was a fascinating glimpse of a world I otherwise know nothing about. It was also a visually engaging movie with some gorgeous scenery and nice camera work.
  - zz1 11y ago
    Except that isn't Sorrentino's last film. And both Youth and La grande bellezza are beautiful movies.
  - dgudkov 11y ago
    What's awful in "La Grande Bellezza"?
DanBC 11y ago
The movie Gomorra is great, as is Il Divo. I'd be interested in a list of good Italian films since the year 2000. (That's just an arbitrary cut off.) Especially if they have ahem YIFY try before you buy samples.

atemerev 11y ago

Try watching "The Best of Youth" (La meglio gioventù), it is fantastic.

blue1 11y ago

Not just abroad. In the latest decades the cultural production of Italy has been, on average, rather embarrassing. As an Italian, I have developed an easy heuristic: if it is an Italian title (either book, song or movie, whatever) it is likely to be bad. Exceptions exist, but they are rare. It is true that what gets exported from a country is usually the best, so one probably encounters the local bad and the foreign best, but cultural production of Italy certainly was better once. It is as if my country has suffered some kind of creative collapse.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
spooningtamarin 11y ago
It's probably corruption. It eliminates competition and breeds mediocrity. If your capital isn't allocated fairly results will be pretty bad.
- simo7 11y ago
  This wouldn't explain why it used to be so good in the past though.
- coldtea 11y ago
  Soviet cinema had lots of masterpieces without "fair allocation of capital" (and lots of corruption one would presume). And I wouldn't call the Hollywood situation of giving multi-million dollar budgets to BS like Transformers and spare change to far better movies a "fair allocation" either when it comes to artistic merit. When it comes to art, allocation of capital and "efficient markets" just means more popular works get more money -- it doesn't say anything about their quality, which is part of what the article is about. (Expecting accusations of 'elitism', I'm not talking about esoteric, self-congratulatory arthouse films either. The Godfellas for example, a mighty good movie, is anything but that, or Pulp Fiction (or, at their era, The Searchers, Vertigo etc.).
  - icebraining 11y ago

csydas 11y ago

I'd suggest access in general is a problem. In the past, this can be simply written off as the difficulty in moving and translating the works, but this hasn't been an issue for a very long time. I'm a bit of a fair-weather fan of Italian cinema insomuch that I usually enjoy what I am able to find online that gets translated. My partner is close to fluency in Italian and loves watching Italian film to test her understanding, but we find ourselves constantly struggling to locate any reliable source for Italian film, legally or otherwise acquired. The most famous pieces of Italian cinema are certainly obtainable, but exploring the rest just seems to be a fools errand. I'm not sure whether the Italian studios don't want to take the time, if Publishers world-wide don't see the return on investment for spreading Italian film, or what is stopping access, but there can be no interest if there's no chance in getting at the film.

imaginenore 11y ago

La grande bellezza / The Great Beauty was quite good.

erikpukinskis 11y ago

It's funny, I see this anti- self-consciousness stance more and more. Objections to hipsters. Objections to political correctness. We're at a funny time where we sort of remember the time when we weren't all splayed out on the internet in front of each other, and we can still pine for a return to that... We have given up some important things that are worth trying to get back. But unfortunately for these people, I think we're only seeing the beginning. And we'll be horrified at what the next generation will share publicly and demand space for in the public discourse. The Internet wants to see everything and it is only getting stronger. It's "eye" will grow 1000x every thirty years for the next century. The swaggering unselfconscious architype she misses is going to increasingly read as tone-deaf until we reach the next civil rights plateau. Minimally we'll need free basic medical care and housing for all humans. At that point I think he swagger could come back in full blast--nothing wrong with a little self-aggrandizement if everyone is fed and people are enjoying watching.

cafard 11y ago

Also: in the US foreign (or at least European) movies seem to attract an aging demographic.