6 ms·

I am jealous. My mega-large, hyphenated corporation only gives 40 hours. Which I have just had approved (today!) so that I could help care for my newborn son wh

I am jealous. My mega-large, hyphenated corporation only gives 40 hours. Which I have just had approved (today!) so that I could help care for my newborn son while my wife recovers from caesarian section. Doing this required multiple calls to a third party company that hypenated-corporation has subcontracted their leave and disability claims to, as well as about 30 pages worth of paperwork. I spent about half as much time coordinating all this as the amount of leave that I'll get. My point is: even if Zuckerberg only takes half the time he gives to everyone else he's still being very generous to himself as compared to what happens in much of corporate America. I am willing to bet that going on leave like this is probably easier at Facebook, as well.

13of40 11y ago
Yeah, well fuck 7-Eleven.
scurvy 11y ago
Bummer. Move to a state with family leave laws. CA gives 6 weeks of paid leave to everyone: http://www.edd.ca.gov/disability/FAQ_PFL_Benefits.htm http://www.edd.ca.gov/disability/FAQ_PFL_Benefits.htm
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  Yes, that is a pragmatic answer to my issue...if I had different life circumstances. And I could -- my little niche of hypenated-corporation would love to send me to California on a permanent basis. Unfortunately, I have no desire to commute 2 hrs to/from Edwards AFB every day. Good to know though.
- randyrand 11y ago
  Out of curiosity, would this apply if you were say a lead actor in a movie? 6 week multi-million dollar production stall would in my mind be fair ground for not hiring an actor, but I take it that's illegal.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
    This is getting nitpicky against your very valid point, but I think most actors are 1099 contractors so it doesn't apply
    - randyrand 11y ago
      I imagine you have to be right. For the majority of employees a 6 week break is no big deal. But for some specialty industries you just can't hire people that plan on taking a 6 week break in the middle of production.
- benihana 11y ago
  >Move to a state with family leave laws. Just move! Great and completely realistic solution to the problem of what to do about paternity leave within my company when a kid is on the way. Brilliant! I wish I'd thought of that.
  - engi_nerd 11y ago
    In a complete aside, I've also moved 4 times since 2011. I am tired of moving. "Just move" is not the most useful advice ever.
    - scurvy 11y ago
      Lobby your state representatives to keep up with the other states?
      - engi_nerd 11y ago
        A good idea. Hopefully hyphenated-corporation won't manage to avoid that law like they have several other laws I have been impacted by...
        scurvy 11y ago
        It's state run (part of the unemployment/disability system). The company really has no choice... I'm not trying to patronize you, but it sounds like you should be looking for a new job! Edit: Here's a HN thread where I asked "where should we move to?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10103373 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10103373
        engi_nerd 11y ago
        Oh God I don't want to move again. If I did it would be 5 times since 2011. I like my job otherwise. Hyphenated company manages to avoid our state laws on covering infertility treatment by funding its own health plan, thereby taking advantage of a loophole in the state law. I can only believe that such a large company, in the state where it is incorporated, would find ways to put loopholes in any new laws.
- Domenic_S 11y ago
  Dunno if you've ever taken PFL, but I have twice. It's not all roses. Your first 1-2 weeks (depending on company policy) is unpaid, ie you have to take PTO/vacation. Then PFL pays 55% of your weekly salary, to a maximum of $1,104 -- essentially $52k. They dump it on some ghetto Bank of America debit card that you have to hook up to your bank account thru their 90s-fabulous website somehow... Except for the 40 hours part, OP's was exactly my experience. BigCo contracts out to some awful 3rd party that can't get their paperwork straight. I actually got notice that my leave was "approved" (as if they could disapprove?) AFTER I returned to work, that's how bad their process sucks. Don't even get me started about straightening out the bill for health insurance -- yeah, you have to pay your employer's share while you're on leave! Surprise! (I guess this might vary from company to company). Better than nothing I guess, but I think I'd rather have lower taxes and just take straight PTO.
logn 11y ago
FYI you can probably take 12 weeks unpaid leave, as guaranteed by FMLA. I'm guessing your employer would exercise the option to pay out vacation time concurrently. To take FMLA requires nothing more than telling your boss you need time off to take care of a newborn (or any other valid reason), so it's not too late. They can make you fill out paperwork but denying the leave if it's valid is illegal. You're guaranteed to have your job when you come back. (Edit: note to others reading this who work at startups--employers with < 50 employees don't need to follow FMLA)
- serge2k 11y ago
  Oh great, I can stop getting paid just as I have a kid. That sounds wonderful.
  - engi_nerd 11y ago
    Exactly why I am not taking any unpaid leave.
  - SamReidHughes 11y ago
    It's called savings. Instead of asking for paid leave, you can ask for a higher salary, and then save that extra money, which pays for your leave.
    - engi_nerd 11y ago
      Nice, if you have enough savings to do it. Please don't forget that not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. I did, until I bought a house, sold it, and bought another in the course of a year due to escaping from a horrible job. I'm getting savings built back up again, and I can afford to miss a few paychecks now, but not at the 6 month level I had a couple of years back. I'll get there again.
      - SamReidHughes 11y ago
        Guess what. If you want paid family leave as a benefit, you can choose between that and alternative benefits, like having a higher salary, not to mention (for young people that are likely to have a family) being hirable in the first place. It doesn't come for free.
lacker 11y ago
FWIW, at Facebook you still have to deal with some ugly B2B system to report your leave. "Matrix e-systems". Apparently the nest of laws that cover leave is complicated enough that you basically have to hire someone to handle compliance. Everyone (male or female) gets 4 months though, which is quite nice and makes it worth navigating through this janky form-filling.
scrumper 11y ago
Wow. My wife had a section with our first, 2 months early, with some weeks in the NICU afterwards. I had absolutely no inkling that recovery would be so hard for my wife; I'd always heard "too posh to push" and thought she was getting the easy way out! It's a brutal surgery and she struggled to do basic things for weeks. Fortunately I worked for a small firm at the time, directly for the CEO, and whatever our HR policy was didn't matter as I was given essentially free reign to manage my time and work from home as needed. I was able to be largely absent for weeks, going to the office when she had help at home. You have my heartfelt sympathy. 40hrs is pathetic, insulting, and the process for you to get it is frankly dehumanizing. Fortunately those scumbags will pale into insignificance as you get to know your son.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  Thanks for the kind words. We only had 1 week in the NICU (our son arrived 1 month early due to some maternal complications). That week was hard enough. You also have my heartfelt sympathy. Hope your little fighter is doing well now.
  - scrumper 11y ago
    Thanks, she's a vivacious and warm hearted three year old now, you'd never know she was a preemie. They catch up pretty fast. Hope your boy does well too. Your comment touched a nerve: it was a dramatically emotional time, and I just got shivers thinking how I'd have felt having to do a day's paperwork just to get out of the office. I was very lucky.
melted 11y ago
Here's my advice: don't work for them. You shouldn't tolerate such bullshit no matter how much they pay. This is your _wife and kid_ you're talking about. You will horribly regret prioritizing the unreasonable demands of your employer over their needs. Instead of bitching on HN, get off your ass and find a better employer.
- wpietri 11y ago
  I am astounded by the arrogance of you thinking you know his life and situation better than he himself does. And so well that you feel entitled to lecture him in public.
  - melted 11y ago
    I am astounded that you're astounded. Seems like common sense advice to me: put your family ahead of everything else. That's what I do, anyway. Once "everything else" starts to interfere, I make sure to change my circumstances to make sure that my family gets the attention it so richly deserves.
    - engi_nerd 11y ago
      Did it ever occur to you, that, outside of this issue, I'm actually well compensated, well-treated, I work on a good team of motivated people, and I'm well-respected for what I do? As I've said earlier, I have more leave to take than this because I have banked overtime that I can draw upon, and I have a fantastic boss who helped me make a plan to take the (paid) leave I need. All that does not mean that I can't comment on a relevant experience I have that most likely reflects the experiences of many in corporate America. With everything else set well, why would I disrupt my family again? I already moved in 2014 to escape an employer that was pretty much pure evil and really would have damaged my family and marriage. Don't you think, that having gone through that, I have learned how to protect my family? In short, your public lecture, as the other commenter pointed out, does seem a bit arrogant to me. Very surprised by the reactionary thinking I'm seeing about this.
      - deleted 11y ago
peter303 11y ago
Wrong. You may take 12 weeks without losing your job under federal law. Only one of your weeks would be paid.

13of40 11y ago

Yeah, well fuck 7-Eleven.

scurvy 11y ago

Bummer. Move to a state with family leave laws. CA gives 6 weeks of paid leave to everyone: http://www.edd.ca.gov/disability/FAQ_PFL_Benefits.htm http://www.edd.ca.gov/disability/FAQ_PFL_Benefits.htm

engi_nerd 11y ago
Yes, that is a pragmatic answer to my issue...if I had different life circumstances. And I could -- my little niche of hypenated-corporation would love to send me to California on a permanent basis. Unfortunately, I have no desire to commute 2 hrs to/from Edwards AFB every day. Good to know though.
randyrand 11y ago
Out of curiosity, would this apply if you were say a lead actor in a movie? 6 week multi-million dollar production stall would in my mind be fair ground for not hiring an actor, but I take it that's illegal.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  This is getting nitpicky against your very valid point, but I think most actors are 1099 contractors so it doesn't apply
  - randyrand 11y ago
    I imagine you have to be right. For the majority of employees a 6 week break is no big deal. But for some specialty industries you just can't hire people that plan on taking a 6 week break in the middle of production.
benihana 11y ago
>Move to a state with family leave laws. Just move! Great and completely realistic solution to the problem of what to do about paternity leave within my company when a kid is on the way. Brilliant! I wish I'd thought of that.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  In a complete aside, I've also moved 4 times since 2011. I am tired of moving. "Just move" is not the most useful advice ever.
  - scurvy 11y ago
    Lobby your state representatives to keep up with the other states?
    - engi_nerd 11y ago
      A good idea. Hopefully hyphenated-corporation won't manage to avoid that law like they have several other laws I have been impacted by...
      - scurvy 11y ago
        It's state run (part of the unemployment/disability system). The company really has no choice... I'm not trying to patronize you, but it sounds like you should be looking for a new job! Edit: Here's a HN thread where I asked "where should we move to?" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10103373 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10103373
        engi_nerd 11y ago
        Oh God I don't want to move again. If I did it would be 5 times since 2011. I like my job otherwise. Hyphenated company manages to avoid our state laws on covering infertility treatment by funding its own health plan, thereby taking advantage of a loophole in the state law. I can only believe that such a large company, in the state where it is incorporated, would find ways to put loopholes in any new laws.
Domenic_S 11y ago
Dunno if you've ever taken PFL, but I have twice. It's not all roses. Your first 1-2 weeks (depending on company policy) is unpaid, ie you have to take PTO/vacation. Then PFL pays 55% of your weekly salary, to a maximum of $1,104 -- essentially $52k. They dump it on some ghetto Bank of America debit card that you have to hook up to your bank account thru their 90s-fabulous website somehow... Except for the 40 hours part, OP's was exactly my experience. BigCo contracts out to some awful 3rd party that can't get their paperwork straight. I actually got notice that my leave was "approved" (as if they could disapprove?) AFTER I returned to work, that's how bad their process sucks. Don't even get me started about straightening out the bill for health insurance -- yeah, you have to pay your employer's share while you're on leave! Surprise! (I guess this might vary from company to company). Better than nothing I guess, but I think I'd rather have lower taxes and just take straight PTO.

logn 11y ago

FYI you can probably take 12 weeks unpaid leave, as guaranteed by FMLA. I'm guessing your employer would exercise the option to pay out vacation time concurrently. To take FMLA requires nothing more than telling your boss you need time off to take care of a newborn (or any other valid reason), so it's not too late. They can make you fill out paperwork but denying the leave if it's valid is illegal. You're guaranteed to have your job when you come back. (Edit: note to others reading this who work at startups--employers with < 50 employees don't need to follow FMLA)

serge2k 11y ago
Oh great, I can stop getting paid just as I have a kid. That sounds wonderful.
- engi_nerd 11y ago
  Exactly why I am not taking any unpaid leave.
- SamReidHughes 11y ago
  It's called savings. Instead of asking for paid leave, you can ask for a higher salary, and then save that extra money, which pays for your leave.
  - engi_nerd 11y ago
    Nice, if you have enough savings to do it. Please don't forget that not everyone is fortunate enough to have enough savings to be able to miss three months worth of paychecks. I did, until I bought a house, sold it, and bought another in the course of a year due to escaping from a horrible job. I'm getting savings built back up again, and I can afford to miss a few paychecks now, but not at the 6 month level I had a couple of years back. I'll get there again.
    - SamReidHughes 11y ago
      Guess what. If you want paid family leave as a benefit, you can choose between that and alternative benefits, like having a higher salary, not to mention (for young people that are likely to have a family) being hirable in the first place. It doesn't come for free.

lacker 11y ago

FWIW, at Facebook you still have to deal with some ugly B2B system to report your leave. "Matrix e-systems". Apparently the nest of laws that cover leave is complicated enough that you basically have to hire someone to handle compliance. Everyone (male or female) gets 4 months though, which is quite nice and makes it worth navigating through this janky form-filling.

scrumper 11y ago

Wow. My wife had a section with our first, 2 months early, with some weeks in the NICU afterwards. I had absolutely no inkling that recovery would be so hard for my wife; I'd always heard "too posh to push" and thought she was getting the easy way out! It's a brutal surgery and she struggled to do basic things for weeks. Fortunately I worked for a small firm at the time, directly for the CEO, and whatever our HR policy was didn't matter as I was given essentially free reign to manage my time and work from home as needed. I was able to be largely absent for weeks, going to the office when she had help at home. You have my heartfelt sympathy. 40hrs is pathetic, insulting, and the process for you to get it is frankly dehumanizing. Fortunately those scumbags will pale into insignificance as you get to know your son.

engi_nerd 11y ago
Thanks for the kind words. We only had 1 week in the NICU (our son arrived 1 month early due to some maternal complications). That week was hard enough. You also have my heartfelt sympathy. Hope your little fighter is doing well now.
- scrumper 11y ago
  Thanks, she's a vivacious and warm hearted three year old now, you'd never know she was a preemie. They catch up pretty fast. Hope your boy does well too. Your comment touched a nerve: it was a dramatically emotional time, and I just got shivers thinking how I'd have felt having to do a day's paperwork just to get out of the office. I was very lucky.

melted 11y ago

Here's my advice: don't work for them. You shouldn't tolerate such bullshit no matter how much they pay. This is your _wife and kid_ you're talking about. You will horribly regret prioritizing the unreasonable demands of your employer over their needs. Instead of bitching on HN, get off your ass and find a better employer.

wpietri 11y ago
I am astounded by the arrogance of you thinking you know his life and situation better than he himself does. And so well that you feel entitled to lecture him in public.
- melted 11y ago
  I am astounded that you're astounded. Seems like common sense advice to me: put your family ahead of everything else. That's what I do, anyway. Once "everything else" starts to interfere, I make sure to change my circumstances to make sure that my family gets the attention it so richly deserves.
  - engi_nerd 11y ago
    Did it ever occur to you, that, outside of this issue, I'm actually well compensated, well-treated, I work on a good team of motivated people, and I'm well-respected for what I do? As I've said earlier, I have more leave to take than this because I have banked overtime that I can draw upon, and I have a fantastic boss who helped me make a plan to take the (paid) leave I need. All that does not mean that I can't comment on a relevant experience I have that most likely reflects the experiences of many in corporate America. With everything else set well, why would I disrupt my family again? I already moved in 2014 to escape an employer that was pretty much pure evil and really would have damaged my family and marriage. Don't you think, that having gone through that, I have learned how to protect my family? In short, your public lecture, as the other commenter pointed out, does seem a bit arrogant to me. Very surprised by the reactionary thinking I'm seeing about this.
    - deleted 11y ago

peter303 11y ago

Wrong. You may take 12 weeks without losing your job under federal law. Only one of your weeks would be paid.