7 ms·

Own a Vizio Smart TV? It’s Watching You

60 points by tysone 11y ago

winstonZedmore 11y ago
1984
bsilvereagle 11y ago
The "fix" to this is to not let your TV connect to the internet. Instead, use a set top box that you trust to stream Netflix, etc. Mythtv or tvheadend are good solutions for live tv if you have a computer with a capture card.
- kylec 11y ago
  I wonder how long it'll be before a smart TV is sold that automatically scans for and connects to open wireless access points so it can phone home.
- pdkl95 11y ago
  That works until manufacturers make a deal with cellular networks. precedent: onstar
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- Bud 11y ago
  No. The fix is to militate against "smart" TV makers and boycott them until they remove this malware and stop snooping as a means to gain more revenue. That is the only fix. No other fixes are trustable and verifiable at this point. The fix is, don't ever buy a smart TV. Buy the stupidest TV you possibly can. TV makers don't know anything about software and security, and they don't care at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software and put features in their TVs.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    TV makers don't know anything about software and security, and they don't care at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software and put features in their TVs. I'm not sure that blanket restrictions on evolving technologies are a good idea, but the manufacturers and any store selling their products should be required to prominently disclose any unexpected or potentially unwanted behaviour so potential purchasers can make an informed decision. If we are truly going to see the Internet of Things invading our homes and household devices coming with privacy policies, perhaps we should legislate that those policies must be written on packaging and displayed alongside the products in stores in text large enough to read from as far away as you can usefully see the product itself. ;-)
  - jgalt212 11y ago
    Yes, I can implement the fix that @bsilvereagle recommends, but consumers don't all need to be tech savy to avoid being abused. For the same reasons we have fair lending laws, we should have fair tech laws.
ourmandave 11y ago
I don't understand why you'd want a Smart TV. If something goes south (in this age of disposable tech) it becomes like those TV/VCR combos of the past where 1/2 of it doesn't work. http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-you-dont-really-want-a-smart-tv/ http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-you...
- LordKano 11y ago
  I don't get it either. That article hits the issues why I won't buy one. I'd much rather have a plain old dumb tv and a smart device attached to it. With the same tv, I have been through a Chromecast, a NeoTV, a Roku 2 and a Roku3. I have kept adding features on to the same old tv. Also, I'm concerned about EOL issues. A friend of mine had a smart Blu-Ray player, the manufacturer stopped updating the software and when YouTube stopped supporting the version of the app on his device, he was shut out. It was a minor inconvenience to buy a new Blu-Ray player but if it has been his TV, he'd have to either go buy a new TV or buy an external smart device just to enjoy the same feathers the tv had when he bought it. Meanwhile, I would have spent less for my dumb tv and smart devices while maintaining a more positive overall experience.
  - jevinskie 11y ago
    Yup. A smart TV makes you find a single product that is both a good A) TV and B) media center/computer or whatever you want to call it. Decoupling the devices makes it easier to shop for the best TV and the best TV media center.
    - GauntletWizard 11y ago
      I have a smart TV only because there are no alternatives. TVs in larger sizes that are just TVs are hard to come by, and were even two years ago when I bought it. If you find me a TV with 4k resolution and more than four HDMI ports and no 'smart' features (except CEC, because having my Chromecast and amazon fire stick turn on the TV is magical), I'll switch in a heartbeat.
yuhong 11y ago
This was on Ars a while ago. I mentioned how even today's "non-smart" TVs have to decode digital ATSC signals from the antenna (unlike the TVs of decades ago) in one of the comments, and how today's "monitors" are not that different besides lacking this decoder/tuner and a few other things like the IR sensor/remote.
- McGlockenshire 11y ago
  I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any tuners on a stick, given the increasing trend of things that directly connect to HDMI ports. On the other hand, most "dumb" monitors don't seem to often include multiple HDMI inputs, so that might explain that.
  - windexh8er 11y ago
    Tuners on a stick have been around for well over a decade (Hauppauge was probably one of the first consumer focused brands and still sells a myriad of tuners). The problem is CableCard (out of CableLabs, which is run by a consortium of all the providers) and it's amazingly restrictive licensing. This is part of the reason why you can't really get a tuner for things like MythTV... Well, you can - but even though things were relaxed for CableCards (since it was such a craptastic solution for everyone but the cable cabal as a whole) the providers still control the DRM. And so having a cable card on Linux without a relationship with the powers that be results in the bulk of non-public broadcast to be useless even with an "approved" CableCard on Linux.
    - yuhong 11y ago
      I am talking about OTA ATSC tuners.
      - windexh8er 11y ago
        And like I said, plenty of those types of products exist to solve that problem... http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/ http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/ ...what I was describing is the problematic issue with CableCard and the DRM problem: the inability to run a trustworthy OS (i.e. non-Smart-TV-solution-that-spies-on-all-your-viewing-habits) to process encrypted QAM and the like... ATSC solutions are aplenty, some of the best are the Silicondust hardware.
cmdlinerambo 11y ago
They call the feature smart interactivity. Set to on. Talk about a dark pattern.
spedru 11y ago
The only winning move is not to play, as they say. Televisions are overrated anyway.
jordache 11y ago
sneaky ass vizio.. the setting to disable this is buried under a system diagnostics section with the word "Reset" prominently showing as the menu entry. It's as if they want to discourage owner from venturing into that menu out of fear of the Reset.
- qq66 11y ago
  Much safer to never give the TV network credentials.
  - windexh8er 11y ago
    One of the crappy things is, for example, the way LG chooses to approach this. My guess is they're just as bad as Vizio with their new "WebOS" TVs (disclosure: I own one, started reading disclaimer - they send all activity to LG proper as well). Opted out of everything thinking I won't watch any OTA or cable on the TV anyway since it's a media room panel, however I did want to use the built in Netflix / Amazon from time to time instead of having to provide another box in a minimalistic A/V setup. Problem is... As soon as I tried to fire up Netflix the app on the TV needed an "update". To get the update you have to agree to all ToS. Complete and utter BS approach to forcing customers into a path of least resistance. It's also hard to get a premium panel (I was specifically looking for 4:4:4@60Hz) without the "smarts". It boiled down to price vs features vs requirements and thus I ended up where I did. I ended up revoking my acceptance of ToS and biting the bullet to use an external device for streaming content... Unfortunately I don't think most people care, or if they would they don't realize they should in these scenarios. The unfortunate reality...
    - pdkl95 11y ago
      > Netflix the app on the TV needed ... agree to all ToS Was the Netflix app one of the advertised featured? Was this ToS presented[1] to you before you purchased it? If they advertised a feature but failed to deliver it in the product you paid for, then I think you deserve your money back. They failed to deliver a merchantable good, as required[2] by UCC § 2-314(2)(f). [1] "It was posted on our website" doesn't count, unless that was the place you purchased the TV. Requiring consumers to search every manufacturer's website before purchasing anything is insane. [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314 https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
zobzu 11y ago
ive a vizio smart tv (they basically are all smart tvs now) its just not online. easy. the software sucks anyway.
hueving 11y ago
The comments on that article are awful. Spare yourselves and don't read them!

60 points by tysone 11y ago

1984

The "fix" to this is to not let your TV connect to the internet. Instead, use a set top box that you trust to stream Netflix, etc. Mythtv or tvheadend are good solutions for live tv if you have a computer with a capture card.

kylec 11y ago
I wonder how long it'll be before a smart TV is sold that automatically scans for and connects to open wireless access points so it can phone home.
pdkl95 11y ago
That works until manufacturers make a deal with cellular networks. precedent: onstar
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
Bud 11y ago
No. The fix is to militate against "smart" TV makers and boycott them until they remove this malware and stop snooping as a means to gain more revenue. That is the only fix. No other fixes are trustable and verifiable at this point. The fix is, don't ever buy a smart TV. Buy the stupidest TV you possibly can. TV makers don't know anything about software and security, and they don't care at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software and put features in their TVs.
- Silhouette 11y ago
  TV makers don't know anything about software and security, and they don't care at all about user privacy. So they shouldn't be allowed to write software and put features in their TVs. I'm not sure that blanket restrictions on evolving technologies are a good idea, but the manufacturers and any store selling their products should be required to prominently disclose any unexpected or potentially unwanted behaviour so potential purchasers can make an informed decision. If we are truly going to see the Internet of Things invading our homes and household devices coming with privacy policies, perhaps we should legislate that those policies must be written on packaging and displayed alongside the products in stores in text large enough to read from as far away as you can usefully see the product itself. ;-)
- jgalt212 11y ago
  Yes, I can implement the fix that @bsilvereagle recommends, but consumers don't all need to be tech savy to avoid being abused. For the same reasons we have fair lending laws, we should have fair tech laws.

ourmandave 11y ago

I don't understand why you'd want a Smart TV. If something goes south (in this age of disposable tech) it becomes like those TV/VCR combos of the past where 1/2 of it doesn't work. http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-you-dont-really-want-a-smart-tv/ http://www.howtogeek.com/176392/smart-tvs-are-stupid-why-you...

LordKano 11y ago
I don't get it either. That article hits the issues why I won't buy one. I'd much rather have a plain old dumb tv and a smart device attached to it. With the same tv, I have been through a Chromecast, a NeoTV, a Roku 2 and a Roku3. I have kept adding features on to the same old tv. Also, I'm concerned about EOL issues. A friend of mine had a smart Blu-Ray player, the manufacturer stopped updating the software and when YouTube stopped supporting the version of the app on his device, he was shut out. It was a minor inconvenience to buy a new Blu-Ray player but if it has been his TV, he'd have to either go buy a new TV or buy an external smart device just to enjoy the same feathers the tv had when he bought it. Meanwhile, I would have spent less for my dumb tv and smart devices while maintaining a more positive overall experience.
- jevinskie 11y ago
  Yup. A smart TV makes you find a single product that is both a good A) TV and B) media center/computer or whatever you want to call it. Decoupling the devices makes it easier to shop for the best TV and the best TV media center.
  - GauntletWizard 11y ago
    I have a smart TV only because there are no alternatives. TVs in larger sizes that are just TVs are hard to come by, and were even two years ago when I bought it. If you find me a TV with 4k resolution and more than four HDMI ports and no 'smart' features (except CEC, because having my Chromecast and amazon fire stick turn on the TV is magical), I'll switch in a heartbeat.

yuhong 11y ago

This was on Ars a while ago. I mentioned how even today's "non-smart" TVs have to decode digital ATSC signals from the antenna (unlike the TVs of decades ago) in one of the comments, and how today's "monitors" are not that different besides lacking this decoder/tuner and a few other things like the IR sensor/remote.

McGlockenshire 11y ago
I'm kind of surprised we haven't seen any tuners on a stick, given the increasing trend of things that directly connect to HDMI ports. On the other hand, most "dumb" monitors don't seem to often include multiple HDMI inputs, so that might explain that.
- windexh8er 11y ago
  Tuners on a stick have been around for well over a decade (Hauppauge was probably one of the first consumer focused brands and still sells a myriad of tuners). The problem is CableCard (out of CableLabs, which is run by a consortium of all the providers) and it's amazingly restrictive licensing. This is part of the reason why you can't really get a tuner for things like MythTV... Well, you can - but even though things were relaxed for CableCards (since it was such a craptastic solution for everyone but the cable cabal as a whole) the providers still control the DRM. And so having a cable card on Linux without a relationship with the powers that be results in the bulk of non-public broadcast to be useless even with an "approved" CableCard on Linux.
  - yuhong 11y ago
    I am talking about OTA ATSC tuners.
    - windexh8er 11y ago
      And like I said, plenty of those types of products exist to solve that problem... http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html http://hauppauge.com/site/products/prods_hvr_external.html http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/ http://www.silicondust.com/hdhomerun/ ...what I was describing is the problematic issue with CableCard and the DRM problem: the inability to run a trustworthy OS (i.e. non-Smart-TV-solution-that-spies-on-all-your-viewing-habits) to process encrypted QAM and the like... ATSC solutions are aplenty, some of the best are the Silicondust hardware.

cmdlinerambo 11y ago

They call the feature smart interactivity. Set to on. Talk about a dark pattern.

spedru 11y ago

The only winning move is not to play, as they say. Televisions are overrated anyway.

jordache 11y ago

sneaky ass vizio.. the setting to disable this is buried under a system diagnostics section with the word "Reset" prominently showing as the menu entry. It's as if they want to discourage owner from venturing into that menu out of fear of the Reset.

qq66 11y ago
Much safer to never give the TV network credentials.
- windexh8er 11y ago
  One of the crappy things is, for example, the way LG chooses to approach this. My guess is they're just as bad as Vizio with their new "WebOS" TVs (disclosure: I own one, started reading disclaimer - they send all activity to LG proper as well). Opted out of everything thinking I won't watch any OTA or cable on the TV anyway since it's a media room panel, however I did want to use the built in Netflix / Amazon from time to time instead of having to provide another box in a minimalistic A/V setup. Problem is... As soon as I tried to fire up Netflix the app on the TV needed an "update". To get the update you have to agree to all ToS. Complete and utter BS approach to forcing customers into a path of least resistance. It's also hard to get a premium panel (I was specifically looking for 4:4:4@60Hz) without the "smarts". It boiled down to price vs features vs requirements and thus I ended up where I did. I ended up revoking my acceptance of ToS and biting the bullet to use an external device for streaming content... Unfortunately I don't think most people care, or if they would they don't realize they should in these scenarios. The unfortunate reality...
  - pdkl95 11y ago
    > Netflix the app on the TV needed ... agree to all ToS Was the Netflix app one of the advertised featured? Was this ToS presented[1] to you before you purchased it? If they advertised a feature but failed to deliver it in the product you paid for, then I think you deserve your money back. They failed to deliver a merchantable good, as required[2] by UCC § 2-314(2)(f). [1] "It was posted on our website" doesn't count, unless that was the place you purchased the TV. Requiring consumers to search every manufacturer's website before purchasing anything is insane. [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314 https://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-314

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

zobzu 11y ago

ive a vizio smart tv (they basically are all smart tvs now) its just not online. easy. the software sucks anyway.

hueving 11y ago

The comments on that article are awful. Spare yourselves and don't read them!