36 ms·

Ugg. I'm sorry about being negative but here are some protips: 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dump

Ugg. I'm sorry about being negative but here are some protips: 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. 2. If you pretend to be a manager with hopes of being made a manager, all that you will accomplish is you are going to end up doing your job AND your bosses job. Your boss will look like a hero to his/her peers. You'll kill yourself and won't be made a manager regardless. A better approach is to be smart about it. Always negotiate the work and what you're going to get out of it ahead of time. Maybe you just get some political capital, praise, or a positive review. Don't just blindly do work you weren't asked to do thinking it will be rewarded.

fmavituna 11y ago
> 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. Why do you assume "no reward"? What kind of company/manager wouldn't reward an employee who goes that extra mile?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  Most. For most employers, an employee is a cost / benefit thing (see also: capitalism). The more work an employee does for the least amount of money, the better value that employee is to the employer. Relevant to HN, this is common in SV; fixed working hours / contracts (i.e. 40 hr workweeks) - which unions have fought hard for to achieve - are frowned upon, working overtime, evenings, weekends, and odd hours are encouraged, and people are expected to be available for work pretty much 24/7, and to be doing something work / profession-related outside of work too (think hackathons, meetups, hobby / OS projects, etc). Mind you my sweeping generalisation may not be accurate, I don't live / work there.
  - michaelt 11y ago
    At least where I work, there are annual raises where junior managers recommend which of their employees should receive small/medium/large raises; and only giving small raises does not produce any rewards or benefits for the manager. If someone is doing great work, why wouldn't a manager recommend they get a large raise? They want to retain good performers, after all.
    - eitally 11y ago
      Outside of the highly profitable sectors (tech, finance, insurance, pharma), annual raises mostly went the way of the dodo back in 2007-2008... and didn't come back.
j_jochem 11y ago
This really depends on the organization you're working for. If you're in a competitive corporate environment with lots of pusing and shoving, your interpretation is probably correct. If you work in a place that has flat hierarchies and lots of employee autonomy, the original blog author is probably right.
kabouseng 11y ago
If I may, here is some of my protips: - The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. - It is far more difficult to try and get promoted around your boss. Don't try this, it doesn't work. - Reward isn't always immediate. A previous manager of mine's advice was: You can't keep a good man down. Eventually someone will see the extra effort you put in and reward you for it, even if it is an ex colleage getting you hired at another company.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Great post. Make those above you look great and keep them looking great and you will go far assuming your boss is not a PHB.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  It is for sure one way, but you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". It might take few months or 5 years (or more), draining you of a lot of energy and time that you could spent actually having a life. Plus some people see good performers around as competition, depends how company is structured (ie if your manager is on same position/level you will be once promoted). My example - I have colleague like that didn't do proper research before interview and agreed on ridiculously low salary for job&area. I started 1 year after him, negotiated properly (when you don't care that much if you get it or not, it's amazing position for negotiation). He works hard and is clever, right now he is my line manager and guess what - gradually he reached same salary as me. Since nowadays any of us could be fired anytime (or not, big multinational corp, you never know, people are fired frequently). So result - he puts 50% more effort, does endless meetings/documents and presentations that nobody enjoys doing, looks completely drained from energy. I do the same +-fun dev work that I enjoy with gradually more responsibilities, and am earning the same. this all depends a lot on specific company, hierarchy, promotion processes, your specific boss etc. in good company for example, you discuss with your manager your desire for promotion, set objectives/expectations you should fulfill in incoming months, and unless there is promotional freeze (or you screw up), you'll get there.
pleasanthipster 11y ago
I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. But I think believing someone owes you a promotion for working hard is bs. Instead, work on the things you find valuable in whatever way you want it to be. Tbh though I actually agree with your comment 100% but there is a positive way to spin it
- dagw 11y ago
  I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. Instead of or in addition to your normal duties? Or do you find that your normal duties don't fill a normal work week?
  - mikekchar 11y ago
    mikekchar's rule of strategic incompetence: Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. Corollary (and the useful bit): If you show yourself to be really, really good at something people will keep asking you to do it. If it's something you like, then you will be happy in your job. In any job there are 1000's of things that need to get done that nobody is doing right now. It is a good investment to do some of the things that you enjoy and get really, really good at it. Over time you will find that it will become your job.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      > Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. This is how I was able to avoid getting roped into the IT help desk role. I did that job for a year at another company, I'm really good at it. But when someone comes around looking for help and the guy they hired isn't there, I do not offer to help. No way am I going back to that, I didn't develop Rails skills for nothing.
      - test1235 11y ago
        Email templates for me. I could do them, being primarily a frontend dev, but I would rather turn down a job than have to deal with that bs.
dunkelheit 11y ago
That's kind of a managerial antipattern. True, if someone goes an extra mile and does something outside her direct responsibilities, it is tempting to reward that person with more of the similar tasks in the future. But in the long run this only leads to resentment and curbing of initiative. More experienced managers will find ways to reward this kind of contributions. Also true that employees need to be smart about it. No need to volunteer for unglamorous drudge work, better do something that is perceived to be valuable.
miseg 11y ago
On this subject, should you dress to look like a manager? While at my company the same dress code applies to all, the managers certainly dress more business-like than the programmers.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  If you want to become one, yes.
jo909 11y ago
I would not call it trying to be a "manager", that is a narrow role with a formal place in the org chart. Let's call it "taking responsibility". I agree that you should be smart about it, and not blindly do unassigned work. In the worst case you can be reprimanded because you did not follow process and you might step on someones toes that had other plans and ideas. But don't just do what you are told or only what fits your job description, but do what is needed most and what you care about. That does not have to mean you can't first discuss it with your formal manager or team, but only that you take the initiative and show that you care. When other people recognise that you care about some topic, surly you will get more work regarding that topic. But that is a good thing because you now get to do more work _that you care about_ and that is important. In a sensible organisation that will also mean you can leave some other work to other people, not that you have to increase your hours.
purpled_haze 11y ago
Another warning: Sometimes doing the right thing in your mind means going against leadership and culture that are ingrained in the heart of the company. Taking this route may actually be the right thing to do, but it might not be in your long-term career's best interest. This goes for everything from filling vacuums to taking charge to fix things gone wrong.
- jackgavigan 11y ago
  In my experience, if you find that your values are at odds with the company culture, you should think very carefully about leaving. Unless you're at/near the top of the organisation, trying to challenge an ingrained culture is difficult, and you risk being perceived as "difficult", "obstructive", "not a team player", etc. and, from personal experience, it can be stressful and depressing.
lsadam0 11y ago
I'm not really disagreeing. Setting expectation is always a good thing. However, speaking as a manager...if one of my team members is always stepping up and getting things done in a reliable way without me having to constantly direct them....that person is going to be first in line for promotion and raises. On the flip side, the team members whom I have to micro manage because they are unable to think for themselves will be the first to be culled.
HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
I'm going to say that it depends on the manager. What I've found is that volunteering to take on unassigned work usually resulted in me having first choice at new tasks so I ended up generally working only on stuff I found interesting. Now, I will admit that I had a very good manager at the time, but I've seen the same thing play out similarly elsewhere.

fmavituna 11y ago

> 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. Why do you assume "no reward"? What kind of company/manager wouldn't reward an employee who goes that extra mile?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
Most. For most employers, an employee is a cost / benefit thing (see also: capitalism). The more work an employee does for the least amount of money, the better value that employee is to the employer. Relevant to HN, this is common in SV; fixed working hours / contracts (i.e. 40 hr workweeks) - which unions have fought hard for to achieve - are frowned upon, working overtime, evenings, weekends, and odd hours are encouraged, and people are expected to be available for work pretty much 24/7, and to be doing something work / profession-related outside of work too (think hackathons, meetups, hobby / OS projects, etc). Mind you my sweeping generalisation may not be accurate, I don't live / work there.
- michaelt 11y ago
  At least where I work, there are annual raises where junior managers recommend which of their employees should receive small/medium/large raises; and only giving small raises does not produce any rewards or benefits for the manager. If someone is doing great work, why wouldn't a manager recommend they get a large raise? They want to retain good performers, after all.
  - eitally 11y ago
    Outside of the highly profitable sectors (tech, finance, insurance, pharma), annual raises mostly went the way of the dodo back in 2007-2008... and didn't come back.

j_jochem 11y ago

This really depends on the organization you're working for. If you're in a competitive corporate environment with lots of pusing and shoving, your interpretation is probably correct. If you work in a place that has flat hierarchies and lots of employee autonomy, the original blog author is probably right.

kabouseng 11y ago

If I may, here is some of my protips: - The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. - It is far more difficult to try and get promoted around your boss. Don't try this, it doesn't work. - Reward isn't always immediate. A previous manager of mine's advice was: You can't keep a good man down. Eventually someone will see the extra effort you put in and reward you for it, even if it is an ex colleage getting you hired at another company.

danieltillett 11y ago
Great post. Make those above you look great and keep them looking great and you will go far assuming your boss is not a PHB.
saiya-jin 11y ago
It is for sure one way, but you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". It might take few months or 5 years (or more), draining you of a lot of energy and time that you could spent actually having a life. Plus some people see good performers around as competition, depends how company is structured (ie if your manager is on same position/level you will be once promoted). My example - I have colleague like that didn't do proper research before interview and agreed on ridiculously low salary for job&area. I started 1 year after him, negotiated properly (when you don't care that much if you get it or not, it's amazing position for negotiation). He works hard and is clever, right now he is my line manager and guess what - gradually he reached same salary as me. Since nowadays any of us could be fired anytime (or not, big multinational corp, you never know, people are fired frequently). So result - he puts 50% more effort, does endless meetings/documents and presentations that nobody enjoys doing, looks completely drained from energy. I do the same +-fun dev work that I enjoy with gradually more responsibilities, and am earning the same. this all depends a lot on specific company, hierarchy, promotion processes, your specific boss etc. in good company for example, you discuss with your manager your desire for promotion, set objectives/expectations you should fulfill in incoming months, and unless there is promotional freeze (or you screw up), you'll get there.

pleasanthipster 11y ago

I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. But I think believing someone owes you a promotion for working hard is bs. Instead, work on the things you find valuable in whatever way you want it to be. Tbh though I actually agree with your comment 100% but there is a positive way to spin it

dagw 11y ago
I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. Instead of or in addition to your normal duties? Or do you find that your normal duties don't fill a normal work week?
- mikekchar 11y ago
  mikekchar's rule of strategic incompetence: Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. Corollary (and the useful bit): If you show yourself to be really, really good at something people will keep asking you to do it. If it's something you like, then you will be happy in your job. In any job there are 1000's of things that need to get done that nobody is doing right now. It is a good investment to do some of the things that you enjoy and get really, really good at it. Over time you will find that it will become your job.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. This is how I was able to avoid getting roped into the IT help desk role. I did that job for a year at another company, I'm really good at it. But when someone comes around looking for help and the guy they hired isn't there, I do not offer to help. No way am I going back to that, I didn't develop Rails skills for nothing.
    - test1235 11y ago
      Email templates for me. I could do them, being primarily a frontend dev, but I would rather turn down a job than have to deal with that bs.

dunkelheit 11y ago

That's kind of a managerial antipattern. True, if someone goes an extra mile and does something outside her direct responsibilities, it is tempting to reward that person with more of the similar tasks in the future. But in the long run this only leads to resentment and curbing of initiative. More experienced managers will find ways to reward this kind of contributions. Also true that employees need to be smart about it. No need to volunteer for unglamorous drudge work, better do something that is perceived to be valuable.

miseg 11y ago

On this subject, should you dress to look like a manager? While at my company the same dress code applies to all, the managers certainly dress more business-like than the programmers.

marcosdumay 11y ago
If you want to become one, yes.

jo909 11y ago

I would not call it trying to be a "manager", that is a narrow role with a formal place in the org chart. Let's call it "taking responsibility". I agree that you should be smart about it, and not blindly do unassigned work. In the worst case you can be reprimanded because you did not follow process and you might step on someones toes that had other plans and ideas. But don't just do what you are told or only what fits your job description, but do what is needed most and what you care about. That does not have to mean you can't first discuss it with your formal manager or team, but only that you take the initiative and show that you care. When other people recognise that you care about some topic, surly you will get more work regarding that topic. But that is a good thing because you now get to do more work _that you care about_ and that is important. In a sensible organisation that will also mean you can leave some other work to other people, not that you have to increase your hours.

purpled_haze 11y ago

Another warning: Sometimes doing the right thing in your mind means going against leadership and culture that are ingrained in the heart of the company. Taking this route may actually be the right thing to do, but it might not be in your long-term career's best interest. This goes for everything from filling vacuums to taking charge to fix things gone wrong.

jackgavigan 11y ago
In my experience, if you find that your values are at odds with the company culture, you should think very carefully about leaving. Unless you're at/near the top of the organisation, trying to challenge an ingrained culture is difficult, and you risk being perceived as "difficult", "obstructive", "not a team player", etc. and, from personal experience, it can be stressful and depressing.

lsadam0 11y ago

I'm not really disagreeing. Setting expectation is always a good thing. However, speaking as a manager...if one of my team members is always stepping up and getting things done in a reliable way without me having to constantly direct them....that person is going to be first in line for promotion and raises. On the flip side, the team members whom I have to micro manage because they are unable to think for themselves will be the first to be culled.

HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago

I'm going to say that it depends on the manager. What I've found is that volunteering to take on unassigned work usually resulted in me having first choice at new tasks so I ended up generally working only on stuff I found interesting. Now, I will admit that I had a very good manager at the time, but I've seen the same thing play out similarly elsewhere.