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Never said anything along the lines of "humans are resources." In fact, I specifically addressed the case of an "A player" having a dip in productivity, and es

Never said anything along the lines of "humans are resources." In fact, I specifically addressed the case of an "A player" having a dip in productivity, and essentially said there is nothing wrong with that. They manage their time and their output accordingly to strike an appropriate work/life balance to take care of what needs to be done outside of work, and also manage against burnout when they've been pushing too hard for too long. And the fact that they manage this effectively on their own and can get back into things is part of what distinguishes an "A player" from a "B/C player." The A/B/C boxing is just a shorthand for categorizing overall performance of people on a team. But if you think it is an inappropriate way to classify individuals, I'd love to learn how you approach it, and how much management experience you have with that approach.

gearoidoc 11y ago
I never said you mentioned anything along the lines of "humans as resources" - I meant that the A Player mentality lends to this. Apologies if it came across any different. My issue is that A/B/C boxing is almost binary view. You're either good or you're not. Life isn't that simple. I've worked with fantastic developers who are a pain to communicate and participate on a team with. I've worked with average developers who can anticipate customer needs from a spec better than most and are energising for a team. I've never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. I have worked with some people who seemed hopeless at all facets (though it always struck me that they're in the wrong sector rather than just being completely useless individuals). The largest team I've led has been 5 people whom I had much experience with and so knew various strengths and weaknesses. And I'm rambling here but that loops back to my first point: people have strengths and weaknesses and boxing them into lettered teams just ignores this.
- shostack 11y ago
  Totally agree that life is not that simple, and that people have various strengths and weaknesses. The boxing is simply a way of summarizing those in a simplified (perhaps overly-simplified) manner. If a developer is great at coding but a paint to communicate with and has participation issues, that honestly strikes me as a "B player" if communication and participation are key parts of their job. If not, then those factors aren't as important in terms of weighing overall performance, and that could make the same person an "A player" in a role with differing responsibilities. I also have never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. The question is, are they excellent enough at the core aspects of the job where their weaknesses are sufficiently offset. And this is where you can compare team members. It all comes down to their responsibilities, the needs of the team/business, and how they are tracking against those. So to summarize--everyone is indeed unique in terms of strengths and weaknesses. But at some point the weighting of those strengths and weaknesses tends to crystallize into something more easily categorized as a higher-level bucket of "exceptional", "meets expectations" (and that's not a bad thing), or "needs improvement." A/B/C is just a shorthand convention for that.
marcosdumay 11y ago
Not long ago there've been an article here at HN about how the existence of A, B, and C players is a consequence of bosses labeling them, not of the actual players. It claimed exactly this mentality, where, for example, A players are allowed to manage their worload and avoid burnout, B players have little liberty, and C players had none. Not that I don't think everybody is as capable, but the environment's influence is so great that, except for a really small amout of obviously incompetent people, you won't have a good idea of who is who.
- sportanova 11y ago
  Agreed - 75% of those labels are management's perception - which is often wildly innacurate Maybe A,B,C players was an insightful distinction at one time, but now it's such a cliche that the only people you expect to say it are the ones that sleep with a copy of Jack Welches autobiography under their pillow

gearoidoc 11y ago

I never said you mentioned anything along the lines of "humans as resources" - I meant that the A Player mentality lends to this. Apologies if it came across any different. My issue is that A/B/C boxing is almost binary view. You're either good or you're not. Life isn't that simple. I've worked with fantastic developers who are a pain to communicate and participate on a team with. I've worked with average developers who can anticipate customer needs from a spec better than most and are energising for a team. I've never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. I have worked with some people who seemed hopeless at all facets (though it always struck me that they're in the wrong sector rather than just being completely useless individuals). The largest team I've led has been 5 people whom I had much experience with and so knew various strengths and weaknesses. And I'm rambling here but that loops back to my first point: people have strengths and weaknesses and boxing them into lettered teams just ignores this.

shostack 11y ago
Totally agree that life is not that simple, and that people have various strengths and weaknesses. The boxing is simply a way of summarizing those in a simplified (perhaps overly-simplified) manner. If a developer is great at coding but a paint to communicate with and has participation issues, that honestly strikes me as a "B player" if communication and participation are key parts of their job. If not, then those factors aren't as important in terms of weighing overall performance, and that could make the same person an "A player" in a role with differing responsibilities. I also have never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. The question is, are they excellent enough at the core aspects of the job where their weaknesses are sufficiently offset. And this is where you can compare team members. It all comes down to their responsibilities, the needs of the team/business, and how they are tracking against those. So to summarize--everyone is indeed unique in terms of strengths and weaknesses. But at some point the weighting of those strengths and weaknesses tends to crystallize into something more easily categorized as a higher-level bucket of "exceptional", "meets expectations" (and that's not a bad thing), or "needs improvement." A/B/C is just a shorthand convention for that.

marcosdumay 11y ago

Not long ago there've been an article here at HN about how the existence of A, B, and C players is a consequence of bosses labeling them, not of the actual players. It claimed exactly this mentality, where, for example, A players are allowed to manage their worload and avoid burnout, B players have little liberty, and C players had none. Not that I don't think everybody is as capable, but the environment's influence is so great that, except for a really small amout of obviously incompetent people, you won't have a good idea of who is who.

sportanova 11y ago
Agreed - 75% of those labels are management's perception - which is often wildly innacurate Maybe A,B,C players was an insightful distinction at one time, but now it's such a cliche that the only people you expect to say it are the ones that sleep with a copy of Jack Welches autobiography under their pillow