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Right? And its totally possible for a supposed 'A player' to suffer a dip in productivity (due to, y'know, LIFE) and its similarly possible for a B player to

Right? And its totally possible for a supposed 'A player' to suffer a dip in productivity (due to, y'know, LIFE) and its similarly possible for a B player to upgrade to an A given enough experience. Overall the whole A/B/C boxing just smacks of 'humans as resources'.

holografix 11y ago
Is it just me or the whole "I have to be an A player" just another way of dividing everyone into winners and losers, good or bad? I have a theory that because American society is so ultra-competitive it alienates people who think it's impossible for them to ever be "winners", leading to Some of these people to "win" by shooting the Winners and the indifferent. Are mass school shootings done by C players so think they won't ever be A players and who take it out on the perfect As and indifferent Bs?
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  It's pretty worrying. I've caught myself thinking things like "I have to be the best in the world or I'm going to be stuck in $DEADENDJOB". That can be detrimental and have the opposite effect to what you want. Over the past while, I've become more proactive and I'm trying to make positive changes in how I interact with co-workers and what I do and don't get involved with at work. Even if you do believe in "A" players, there's a limit to how much one person can take on and manage.
shostack 11y ago
Never said anything along the lines of "humans are resources." In fact, I specifically addressed the case of an "A player" having a dip in productivity, and essentially said there is nothing wrong with that. They manage their time and their output accordingly to strike an appropriate work/life balance to take care of what needs to be done outside of work, and also manage against burnout when they've been pushing too hard for too long. And the fact that they manage this effectively on their own and can get back into things is part of what distinguishes an "A player" from a "B/C player." The A/B/C boxing is just a shorthand for categorizing overall performance of people on a team. But if you think it is an inappropriate way to classify individuals, I'd love to learn how you approach it, and how much management experience you have with that approach.
- gearoidoc 11y ago
  I never said you mentioned anything along the lines of "humans as resources" - I meant that the A Player mentality lends to this. Apologies if it came across any different. My issue is that A/B/C boxing is almost binary view. You're either good or you're not. Life isn't that simple. I've worked with fantastic developers who are a pain to communicate and participate on a team with. I've worked with average developers who can anticipate customer needs from a spec better than most and are energising for a team. I've never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. I have worked with some people who seemed hopeless at all facets (though it always struck me that they're in the wrong sector rather than just being completely useless individuals). The largest team I've led has been 5 people whom I had much experience with and so knew various strengths and weaknesses. And I'm rambling here but that loops back to my first point: people have strengths and weaknesses and boxing them into lettered teams just ignores this.
  - shostack 11y ago
    Totally agree that life is not that simple, and that people have various strengths and weaknesses. The boxing is simply a way of summarizing those in a simplified (perhaps overly-simplified) manner. If a developer is great at coding but a paint to communicate with and has participation issues, that honestly strikes me as a "B player" if communication and participation are key parts of their job. If not, then those factors aren't as important in terms of weighing overall performance, and that could make the same person an "A player" in a role with differing responsibilities. I also have never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. The question is, are they excellent enough at the core aspects of the job where their weaknesses are sufficiently offset. And this is where you can compare team members. It all comes down to their responsibilities, the needs of the team/business, and how they are tracking against those. So to summarize--everyone is indeed unique in terms of strengths and weaknesses. But at some point the weighting of those strengths and weaknesses tends to crystallize into something more easily categorized as a higher-level bucket of "exceptional", "meets expectations" (and that's not a bad thing), or "needs improvement." A/B/C is just a shorthand convention for that.
- marcosdumay 11y ago

holografix 11y ago

Is it just me or the whole "I have to be an A player" just another way of dividing everyone into winners and losers, good or bad? I have a theory that because American society is so ultra-competitive it alienates people who think it's impossible for them to ever be "winners", leading to Some of these people to "win" by shooting the Winners and the indifferent. Are mass school shootings done by C players so think they won't ever be A players and who take it out on the perfect As and indifferent Bs?

voltagex_ 11y ago
It's pretty worrying. I've caught myself thinking things like "I have to be the best in the world or I'm going to be stuck in $DEADENDJOB". That can be detrimental and have the opposite effect to what you want. Over the past while, I've become more proactive and I'm trying to make positive changes in how I interact with co-workers and what I do and don't get involved with at work. Even if you do believe in "A" players, there's a limit to how much one person can take on and manage.

shostack 11y ago

Never said anything along the lines of "humans are resources." In fact, I specifically addressed the case of an "A player" having a dip in productivity, and essentially said there is nothing wrong with that. They manage their time and their output accordingly to strike an appropriate work/life balance to take care of what needs to be done outside of work, and also manage against burnout when they've been pushing too hard for too long. And the fact that they manage this effectively on their own and can get back into things is part of what distinguishes an "A player" from a "B/C player." The A/B/C boxing is just a shorthand for categorizing overall performance of people on a team. But if you think it is an inappropriate way to classify individuals, I'd love to learn how you approach it, and how much management experience you have with that approach.

gearoidoc 11y ago
I never said you mentioned anything along the lines of "humans as resources" - I meant that the A Player mentality lends to this. Apologies if it came across any different. My issue is that A/B/C boxing is almost binary view. You're either good or you're not. Life isn't that simple. I've worked with fantastic developers who are a pain to communicate and participate on a team with. I've worked with average developers who can anticipate customer needs from a spec better than most and are energising for a team. I've never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. I have worked with some people who seemed hopeless at all facets (though it always struck me that they're in the wrong sector rather than just being completely useless individuals). The largest team I've led has been 5 people whom I had much experience with and so knew various strengths and weaknesses. And I'm rambling here but that loops back to my first point: people have strengths and weaknesses and boxing them into lettered teams just ignores this.
- shostack 11y ago
  Totally agree that life is not that simple, and that people have various strengths and weaknesses. The boxing is simply a way of summarizing those in a simplified (perhaps overly-simplified) manner. If a developer is great at coding but a paint to communicate with and has participation issues, that honestly strikes me as a "B player" if communication and participation are key parts of their job. If not, then those factors aren't as important in terms of weighing overall performance, and that could make the same person an "A player" in a role with differing responsibilities. I also have never worked with someone who is excellent at all facets of their job. The question is, are they excellent enough at the core aspects of the job where their weaknesses are sufficiently offset. And this is where you can compare team members. It all comes down to their responsibilities, the needs of the team/business, and how they are tracking against those. So to summarize--everyone is indeed unique in terms of strengths and weaknesses. But at some point the weighting of those strengths and weaknesses tends to crystallize into something more easily categorized as a higher-level bucket of "exceptional", "meets expectations" (and that's not a bad thing), or "needs improvement." A/B/C is just a shorthand convention for that.
marcosdumay 11y ago