8 ms·

Why Rdio died

72 points by coloneltcb 11y ago

bhouston 11y ago
I was a rdio subscriber and their Andriod app was unreliable - it would just stop working and have to be force killed. Yes, I can do that but for most people, that is pretty horribl. Even I switched to Spotify after a while.
- datamoshr 11y ago
  I was the same, those issues paired with a bad bitrate offering was the nail in the coffin for me.
- mdellabitta 11y ago
  Just as a alternative view: I was a Spotify user but their Android app was unreliable... my phone would hard reset occasionally. Then I started using Google Play Music.
- BFay 11y ago
  I've had the same issues - with some updates it gets better or worse, it's pretty annoying. Another thing that concerns me with the app is that the setting to only download/stream tracks on wifi doesn't seem to be honored; if I have autoplay on in my car, it will start streaming songs I've never downloaded over 4G. Apart from that, I love the service, and I'm sad to see it go!
tomekn 11y ago
I love how easy it is to browse for music by record label on rdio. Not something you can do on other platforms and it's a great way to discover new music! It'll be sad to see it go.
- ituitu 11y ago
  Searching by record label is a hidden feature on Spotify. Try typing label:"Atlantic records" in the search box.
  - neduma 11y ago
    Why so?
- jazzyk 11y ago
  Does not hurt, but I think most people don't really care or remember the record label. For me the killer feature would be a sophisticated implementation of "if you like this song, here are some you may also like". Sophisticated, because the music I like is usually an amalgam of multiple styles, for example jazz-funk-soul. The existing software is way too simplistic right now: 1.it usually classifies music in exclusive styles (soul or jazz, but not both), 2. the recommendations that come up are usually the well known artists, and I am more interested in less known ones (because I am familiar with all the big names already).
  - dublinben 11y ago
    Those two problems are exactly what the curation of a record label provides. If I really like a song or album by Hudson Mohawke or Flying Lotus, then I know I can find similar releases from the Warp or Brainfeeder labels. This lets me explore similar artists that may not be as well known. I have experienced very high rates of success with this method, much better than any algorithmic recommendations.
inthewoods 11y ago
Given the brutal reality of the streaming music business, it would not shock me if Spotify suffered the same fate.
- axx 11y ago
  The difference is, Spotify has a HUGE brand. When Spotify launched it was like iTunes, but you could listen to everything "for free". Sure, it wasn't free but compared to paying for every Album i'd listen to, a flat rate is basically free.
  - inthewoods 11y ago
    Spotify has a great brand, but that doesn't solve the underlying poor economics of their model. With Apple and Google moving in, I'm not sure their brand is a long term advantage at this point. I just started trialing Youtube Music - $9.99 a month (US only at the moment) with free Google Play Music. And it's pretty good. And I'm pretty sure Youtube is a bigger brand than Spotify. Neither Google or Apple has to make money from their service - whereas Spotify must make money. It makes me wonder why Spotify hasn't just gone after artists directly, because that's the only way I see them making money long term.
    - lagadu 11y ago
      > It makes me wonder why Spotify hasn't just gone after artists directly, because that's the only way I see them making money long term. That's partially what Tidal tried to do but it's not going very well for them either, unfortunately.
  - WorldMaker 11y ago
    Napster and WinAmp both would like to remind you that huge brands don't matter (and mostly don't last) in music.
- KingMob 11y ago
  Spotify may be somewhat insulated, since the major labels now have a large ownership stake in it. OTOH, I suspect Spotify will jack its prices up over time as the labels tighten the screws.
danr4 11y ago
"Rdio, I guess, made the mistake of trying to be sustainable too early," Miner says. "That classic startup mistake of worrying about being profitable and having a business that makes any sense before you’ve reached this astronomical growth curve." A. Mistake of having a business that makes sense? Are you kidding me? B. Spotify and Pandora are heading straight towards the same fate as Rdio.
- davecap1 11y ago
  If Spotify becomes its own "label" then it'll probably have a better chance... given the size of its user-base.
  - nzoschke 11y ago
    This makes sense. Netflix is on fire right now with their original series. Spotify producing some hit records could change the equation. They already have some great content in the Spotify Sessions series.
  - KingMob 11y ago
    This is unlikely, since the major labels now have a sizable ownership stake in Spotify. I foresee Spotify slowly jacking up prices as the labels demand it.
  - danr4 11y ago
    Great idea.
  - shostack 11y ago
    I've always wondered why Google and Apple didn't do just that. They offer some of the biggest distribution channels available, have deep pockets, and have a VERY vested interest in killing the status quo because of the freedom it will give them for using music and promoting artists in new ways. That is definitely one industry that needs to have more competition.
    - prostoalex 11y ago
axx 11y ago
For someone like me who was using Spotify for a few years, the short experience with Rdio that i had was like "Oh, ok, it's basically like Spotify. I keep using Spotify then."
- hyperchase 11y ago
  Alternatively, I used Rdio first and tried out Spotify when they released the Playstation4 integration and my reaction was "Oh, ok, it's basically Rdio but with a lousy interface. I'll keep using Rdio then".
  - aianus 11y ago
    Rdio wouldn't let me download songs onto my laptop to listen to on flights so I ditched them for Spotify. Also helped that my new living room receiver had Spotify integration but not Rdio.
rickhanlonii 11y ago
I'm in denial. I refuse to believe this is happening. When Rdio is gone there's going to be a huge hole in my life that needs filled with good design and experience browsing my music. iTunes is a shitshow. Spotify is ugly. Pandora is radio. It's all rubbish. The Winamp revival cannot come soon enough.
- neduma 11y ago
  Feels the same. I'm a paid subscriber. FWIW - I love their UI
- eterm 11y ago
  Have you tried google music? I find that <random song> radio, while a little too "just one genre" is good for finding new artists and music. They also have a decent "blogged 50" playlist which is recent/modern music. Other than that, I mostly listen to kexp.org for a good mix of music. Sometimes for radio you can't beat the radio.
  - soylentcola 11y ago
    Agree on the radio part. I know "curated" stations are the hip new feature on Apple and similar music services but there are tens of thousands of free streaming stations that use the shoutcast/icecast protocol and they've been around since the late 1990's. The on-demand services are more like a replacement for album/track purchases but I've found that bookmarking 10 or 20 favorite Shoutcast stations in anything from Winamp to VLC to any other desktop or mobile app that supports streaming mp3 is like having the best, human-programmed radio dial ever. Even back in the early 2000's when I was stuck on 128k/sec cellular data I would hook my Treo up to the car stereo and stream 96kbps music when everyone else was paying for XM. Then with the move to third-gen data networks I got the bump to 800k/sec and streaming much nicer 128k-192k stuff was simple. Sound didn't beat a CD but it was better than satellite radio's compressed streams a lot of the time. Even today, I usually listen to KEXP's stream or Devil's Night Radio or something from SomaFM before dicking around on Spotify or Youtube. There's just something to be said for finding stations that are programmed and run by people with a knowledge and love of music that you also may enjoy. Noticing themes or trends in strings of songs always puts a smile on my face in a way that Pandora or Spotify just never will.
bloke_zero 11y ago
I loved the interface design and discovery. There was a lot to like about Rdio, but no gapless playback? C'mon who wants to listen to Darkside of the Moon with a 2 second pause between each track?
btbuildem 11y ago
Wow that really sucks. I use Rdio daily. It's really good for exploring new music - I've built up a great list of favourites. Is there any way to back that info up locally?
- stdgy 11y ago
  Yes. You can extract your favorites as a CSV with this extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rdio-enhancer/hmaalfaappddkggilhahaebfhdmmmngf?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rdio-enhancer/hmaa... Now I'm looking around to see if it would be possible to import the contents of that CSV into another service. It looks like Spotify has an API to add a track to a user: https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/save-tracks-user/ https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/save-tracks-user/ And there's a third-party API some folks cooked up for Google's service: http://unofficial-google-music-api.readthedocs.org/en/latest/reference/mobileclient.html http://unofficial-google-music-api.readthedocs.org/en/latest... Might have to play with them this weekend.
  - amorphid 11y ago
    Thanks for pointing out this extension. I was looking fod a say to export my favorites.
  - btbuildem 11y ago
    Thank you!
oddevan 11y ago
Most of my friends are (were?) on Rdio. I liked it to a point, until the music library I'd built was suddenly cut in half because reasons? Reasons pertaining to exclusivity arrangements with other services, or label agreements expiring, or whatever. But basically, reasons. It's enough to turn me off of cloud-based music services entirely, honestly. I'm only considering possibly ever subscribing to Apple Music because they let you upload tracks you own that they don't have. I hear Google Music does the same thing? Or maybe I'll finally set up that Plex server...
- creeble 11y ago
  So true. I remember the first time I brought up an old-ish Spotify playlist, only to discover that all of the songs were now unplayable, with no explanation. All of the songs still existed on the service, but those IDs just expired for some reason. Same happened on Rdio from time to time. Presumably this is a record company issue, not one endemic to any particular service. But as much I wanted to love Rdio, the app (Android in particular) had many bugs that would cause it to crash or lock up, and some that would send my network connection off into the weeds, requiring (at least) an airplane-mode reset. And despite the claims of "elegant, groundbreaking", what music app has Search on slide-out besides Rdio? With results that appear in a 1/3-size screen? Time to figure out how to get my playlists over to Rhapsody, the Little Music Service That Could.
- marssaxman 11y ago
  It's really nice having all the music you like safely stashed away on a local hard drive, no cloud anything, where there's no chance that any future copyright-mafia skullduggery can take it away from you.
hcarvalhoalves 11y ago
I was a Rdio subscriber for a year before Spotify, and I can say I left it because of: - Buggy desktop app (used Flash player and would eat 100% CPU) - Buggy mobile app [1] - Restricted library (lots of tracks marked as "not available in your country", which defeats the point of having an online streaming service). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074056
- KingMob 11y ago
  To be fair, the country restrictions are caused by the labels, not Rdio.
  - yen223 11y ago
    The unfortunate truth is that to users, it absolutely does not matter whose fault it is, only that the country restrictions are there.
    - jandrese 11y ago
      It means that every (legal) service is likely to run into the same problems though. The only way to avoid the headache is to pirate the music instead.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
altendo 11y ago
As someone who worked at GS, this kills me. I hate to see a streaming service go down like that. I've mostly been listening to my library in Amazon's online player - not a particularly big fan of Prime Music at all, bleh - but I did give Rdio a try and enjoyed it. It was a much more enjoyable experience than Spotify. Definitely feeling for the company.
mikikian 11y ago
And for those interested, here's the sale process and purchase agreement fro their bankruptcy filings ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5k5SQee7k5pT3ZGVGZiU01jSE0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5k5SQee7k5pT3ZGVGZiU01jSE0... )
dbg31415 11y ago
I can't for the life of me figure out why we need 18 different services that do -- from my perspective -- the exact same thing. Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, Google Music, Amazon, Rdio... can't tell the difference between any of them, so I just use whichever one gives me a free month that month in all the spam marketing crap they send out.
- wishinghand 11y ago
  Competition is healthy. With 18 different services to do more or less the exact same thing, prices stay down. If there was only Spotify and they raised their prices to higher than what you prefer, what company would you turn to?

72 points by coloneltcb 11y ago

I was a rdio subscriber and their Andriod app was unreliable - it would just stop working and have to be force killed. Yes, I can do that but for most people, that is pretty horribl. Even I switched to Spotify after a while.

datamoshr 11y ago
I was the same, those issues paired with a bad bitrate offering was the nail in the coffin for me.
mdellabitta 11y ago
Just as a alternative view: I was a Spotify user but their Android app was unreliable... my phone would hard reset occasionally. Then I started using Google Play Music.
BFay 11y ago
I've had the same issues - with some updates it gets better or worse, it's pretty annoying. Another thing that concerns me with the app is that the setting to only download/stream tracks on wifi doesn't seem to be honored; if I have autoplay on in my car, it will start streaming songs I've never downloaded over 4G. Apart from that, I love the service, and I'm sad to see it go!

tomekn 11y ago

I love how easy it is to browse for music by record label on rdio. Not something you can do on other platforms and it's a great way to discover new music! It'll be sad to see it go.

ituitu 11y ago
Searching by record label is a hidden feature on Spotify. Try typing label:"Atlantic records" in the search box.
- neduma 11y ago
  Why so?
jazzyk 11y ago
Does not hurt, but I think most people don't really care or remember the record label. For me the killer feature would be a sophisticated implementation of "if you like this song, here are some you may also like". Sophisticated, because the music I like is usually an amalgam of multiple styles, for example jazz-funk-soul. The existing software is way too simplistic right now: 1.it usually classifies music in exclusive styles (soul or jazz, but not both), 2. the recommendations that come up are usually the well known artists, and I am more interested in less known ones (because I am familiar with all the big names already).
- dublinben 11y ago
  Those two problems are exactly what the curation of a record label provides. If I really like a song or album by Hudson Mohawke or Flying Lotus, then I know I can find similar releases from the Warp or Brainfeeder labels. This lets me explore similar artists that may not be as well known. I have experienced very high rates of success with this method, much better than any algorithmic recommendations.

inthewoods 11y ago

Given the brutal reality of the streaming music business, it would not shock me if Spotify suffered the same fate.

axx 11y ago
The difference is, Spotify has a HUGE brand. When Spotify launched it was like iTunes, but you could listen to everything "for free". Sure, it wasn't free but compared to paying for every Album i'd listen to, a flat rate is basically free.
- inthewoods 11y ago
  Spotify has a great brand, but that doesn't solve the underlying poor economics of their model. With Apple and Google moving in, I'm not sure their brand is a long term advantage at this point. I just started trialing Youtube Music - $9.99 a month (US only at the moment) with free Google Play Music. And it's pretty good. And I'm pretty sure Youtube is a bigger brand than Spotify. Neither Google or Apple has to make money from their service - whereas Spotify must make money. It makes me wonder why Spotify hasn't just gone after artists directly, because that's the only way I see them making money long term.
  - lagadu 11y ago
    > It makes me wonder why Spotify hasn't just gone after artists directly, because that's the only way I see them making money long term. That's partially what Tidal tried to do but it's not going very well for them either, unfortunately.
- WorldMaker 11y ago
  Napster and WinAmp both would like to remind you that huge brands don't matter (and mostly don't last) in music.
KingMob 11y ago
Spotify may be somewhat insulated, since the major labels now have a large ownership stake in it. OTOH, I suspect Spotify will jack its prices up over time as the labels tighten the screws.

danr4 11y ago

"Rdio, I guess, made the mistake of trying to be sustainable too early," Miner says. "That classic startup mistake of worrying about being profitable and having a business that makes any sense before you’ve reached this astronomical growth curve." A. Mistake of having a business that makes sense? Are you kidding me? B. Spotify and Pandora are heading straight towards the same fate as Rdio.

davecap1 11y ago
If Spotify becomes its own "label" then it'll probably have a better chance... given the size of its user-base.
- nzoschke 11y ago
  This makes sense. Netflix is on fire right now with their original series. Spotify producing some hit records could change the equation. They already have some great content in the Spotify Sessions series.
- KingMob 11y ago
  This is unlikely, since the major labels now have a sizable ownership stake in Spotify. I foresee Spotify slowly jacking up prices as the labels demand it.
- danr4 11y ago
  Great idea.
- shostack 11y ago
  I've always wondered why Google and Apple didn't do just that. They offer some of the biggest distribution channels available, have deep pockets, and have a VERY vested interest in killing the status quo because of the freedom it will give them for using music and promoting artists in new ways. That is definitely one industry that needs to have more competition.
  - prostoalex 11y ago

axx 11y ago

For someone like me who was using Spotify for a few years, the short experience with Rdio that i had was like "Oh, ok, it's basically like Spotify. I keep using Spotify then."

hyperchase 11y ago
Alternatively, I used Rdio first and tried out Spotify when they released the Playstation4 integration and my reaction was "Oh, ok, it's basically Rdio but with a lousy interface. I'll keep using Rdio then".
- aianus 11y ago
  Rdio wouldn't let me download songs onto my laptop to listen to on flights so I ditched them for Spotify. Also helped that my new living room receiver had Spotify integration but not Rdio.

rickhanlonii 11y ago

I'm in denial. I refuse to believe this is happening. When Rdio is gone there's going to be a huge hole in my life that needs filled with good design and experience browsing my music. iTunes is a shitshow. Spotify is ugly. Pandora is radio. It's all rubbish. The Winamp revival cannot come soon enough.

neduma 11y ago
Feels the same. I'm a paid subscriber. FWIW - I love their UI
eterm 11y ago
Have you tried google music? I find that <random song> radio, while a little too "just one genre" is good for finding new artists and music. They also have a decent "blogged 50" playlist which is recent/modern music. Other than that, I mostly listen to kexp.org for a good mix of music. Sometimes for radio you can't beat the radio.
- soylentcola 11y ago
  Agree on the radio part. I know "curated" stations are the hip new feature on Apple and similar music services but there are tens of thousands of free streaming stations that use the shoutcast/icecast protocol and they've been around since the late 1990's. The on-demand services are more like a replacement for album/track purchases but I've found that bookmarking 10 or 20 favorite Shoutcast stations in anything from Winamp to VLC to any other desktop or mobile app that supports streaming mp3 is like having the best, human-programmed radio dial ever. Even back in the early 2000's when I was stuck on 128k/sec cellular data I would hook my Treo up to the car stereo and stream 96kbps music when everyone else was paying for XM. Then with the move to third-gen data networks I got the bump to 800k/sec and streaming much nicer 128k-192k stuff was simple. Sound didn't beat a CD but it was better than satellite radio's compressed streams a lot of the time. Even today, I usually listen to KEXP's stream or Devil's Night Radio or something from SomaFM before dicking around on Spotify or Youtube. There's just something to be said for finding stations that are programmed and run by people with a knowledge and love of music that you also may enjoy. Noticing themes or trends in strings of songs always puts a smile on my face in a way that Pandora or Spotify just never will.

bloke_zero 11y ago

I loved the interface design and discovery. There was a lot to like about Rdio, but no gapless playback? C'mon who wants to listen to Darkside of the Moon with a 2 second pause between each track?

btbuildem 11y ago

Wow that really sucks. I use Rdio daily. It's really good for exploring new music - I've built up a great list of favourites. Is there any way to back that info up locally?

stdgy 11y ago
Yes. You can extract your favorites as a CSV with this extension: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rdio-enhancer/hmaalfaappddkggilhahaebfhdmmmngf?hl=en https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/rdio-enhancer/hmaa... Now I'm looking around to see if it would be possible to import the contents of that CSV into another service. It looks like Spotify has an API to add a track to a user: https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/save-tracks-user/ https://developer.spotify.com/web-api/save-tracks-user/ And there's a third-party API some folks cooked up for Google's service: http://unofficial-google-music-api.readthedocs.org/en/latest/reference/mobileclient.html http://unofficial-google-music-api.readthedocs.org/en/latest... Might have to play with them this weekend.
- amorphid 11y ago
  Thanks for pointing out this extension. I was looking fod a say to export my favorites.
- btbuildem 11y ago
  Thank you!

oddevan 11y ago

Most of my friends are (were?) on Rdio. I liked it to a point, until the music library I'd built was suddenly cut in half because reasons? Reasons pertaining to exclusivity arrangements with other services, or label agreements expiring, or whatever. But basically, reasons. It's enough to turn me off of cloud-based music services entirely, honestly. I'm only considering possibly ever subscribing to Apple Music because they let you upload tracks you own that they don't have. I hear Google Music does the same thing? Or maybe I'll finally set up that Plex server...

creeble 11y ago
So true. I remember the first time I brought up an old-ish Spotify playlist, only to discover that all of the songs were now unplayable, with no explanation. All of the songs still existed on the service, but those IDs just expired for some reason. Same happened on Rdio from time to time. Presumably this is a record company issue, not one endemic to any particular service. But as much I wanted to love Rdio, the app (Android in particular) had many bugs that would cause it to crash or lock up, and some that would send my network connection off into the weeds, requiring (at least) an airplane-mode reset. And despite the claims of "elegant, groundbreaking", what music app has Search on slide-out besides Rdio? With results that appear in a 1/3-size screen? Time to figure out how to get my playlists over to Rhapsody, the Little Music Service That Could.
marssaxman 11y ago
It's really nice having all the music you like safely stashed away on a local hard drive, no cloud anything, where there's no chance that any future copyright-mafia skullduggery can take it away from you.

hcarvalhoalves 11y ago

I was a Rdio subscriber for a year before Spotify, and I can say I left it because of: - Buggy desktop app (used Flash player and would eat 100% CPU) - Buggy mobile app [1] - Restricted library (lots of tracks marked as "not available in your country", which defeats the point of having an online streaming service). [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074056 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7074056

KingMob 11y ago
To be fair, the country restrictions are caused by the labels, not Rdio.
- yen223 11y ago
  The unfortunate truth is that to users, it absolutely does not matter whose fault it is, only that the country restrictions are there.
  - jandrese 11y ago
    It means that every (legal) service is likely to run into the same problems though. The only way to avoid the headache is to pirate the music instead.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

altendo 11y ago

As someone who worked at GS, this kills me. I hate to see a streaming service go down like that. I've mostly been listening to my library in Amazon's online player - not a particularly big fan of Prime Music at all, bleh - but I did give Rdio a try and enjoyed it. It was a much more enjoyable experience than Spotify. Definitely feeling for the company.

mikikian 11y ago

And for those interested, here's the sale process and purchase agreement fro their bankruptcy filings ( https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5k5SQee7k5pT3ZGVGZiU01jSE0/view?usp=sharing https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5k5SQee7k5pT3ZGVGZiU01jSE0... )

dbg31415 11y ago

I can't for the life of me figure out why we need 18 different services that do -- from my perspective -- the exact same thing. Spotify, Pandora, iTunes, Google Music, Amazon, Rdio... can't tell the difference between any of them, so I just use whichever one gives me a free month that month in all the spam marketing crap they send out.

wishinghand 11y ago
Competition is healthy. With 18 different services to do more or less the exact same thing, prices stay down. If there was only Spotify and they raised their prices to higher than what you prefer, what company would you turn to?