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>The 21 Bitcoin Computer consumes 15W (5V @3A) and has an efficiency of approximately 0.16 Joules per Gigahash and arrives configured to calculate at a rate of

>The 21 Bitcoin Computer consumes 15W (5V @3A) and has an efficiency of approximately 0.16 Joules per Gigahash and arrives configured to calculate at a rate of approximately 50 Gigahashes per second. So taking the computer's price of $400 and using this calculator [1] w/ the current difficulty level, 50 Gigahashes/s, 15W consumption, 5% pool commission, $0.15 $/kW energy costs, and the current exchange rate of $332USD/BTC we get: $0.07 in daily revenue or 5714 days (15.6 years) to breakeven assuming constant difficulty and current exchange rate levels. --- > Please note: the satoshis you mine provide a source of readily-available bitcoin for application development, but are not intended to be used for investment purposes. I wonder if they included this disclaimer because the 21 Bitcoin computer will never generate a profit, or because of some other legal barrier? Either way, they should stick "NOT AN EFFICIENT MINING DEVICE, SOLELY FOR DEVELOPMENT PURPOSES" at the top of their description instead of dancing around the issue, making it seem like they're hoping to lure naive miners into purchasing the device. [1] http://www.alcula.com/calculators/finance/bitcoin-mining/ http://www.alcula.com/calculators/finance/bitcoin-mining/

dmix 11y ago
They aren't selling this as a self-financing investment so the ROI from BTC alone is not entirely relevant. The value prop is to get access to bitcoins and the network for development purposes, if I'm not mistaken. The better question might be is this a problem people are willing to spend $400 to solve?
- grubles 11y ago
  The better question is why not just use the bitcoin testnet? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet
- ssharp 11y ago
  Couldn't they have just used software to emulate the steady stream of Bitcoin that this thing produces? The inclusion of the miner and it's subsequent price tag (over what a normal Pi costs) makes it seem ridiculous. If their endgame is to create a mining chip that can be realistically put into devices, they'd better figure out a much better form factor for it as well.
api 11y ago
The purpose is not mining for USD profit.
toomim 11y ago
The new "buffered mining" and predictive mining features they announced take more of the risk out of mining. Not only do they have a pool to ameliorate the variance of finding a block, but they remove the risk of the difficulty varying, and even give you advance payments on mining before you've done it. By taking out all the risk, variance, and profit, 21 is step-by-step approaching a design where customers just buy bitcoin with money. Except they feel like they are mining, with a very wasteful, expensive, inefficient chip. Buying bitcoin was the right design all along. Eventually, 21 might discover this, if they can get over all the sunk costs they've invested in making mining chips without a market.
- Syrup-tan 11y ago
  Meta: Finally, a comment that isn't hung up on the scrolling behaviour, or the price of the mining power. It's notable the rsync.net has similar, terrible web behaviour, but we seem to have sane discussions about it's service. On topic: I think the neat part of 21 is that it seems to be a step forward in realising microtransactions, in a decentralised manner. Right now the only way around microtransactions is having a centralised pool, where you e.g. put $5/month in, and it pays services out of that pool. The problem with paying services directly is the base fees associated with transactions (for CC, it's around $0.15 + 3%, through Stripe).
  - jebeng 11y ago
    How is this realizing microtransactions in a decentralized manner? Having to pay a few cents in transaction fees to get a transaction included on the Bitcoin blockchain does not seem like a great platform for true microtransactions(say <$1). 21 offers their own microtransaction service, but that's just a centralized shared wallet/ledger that offers nothing new. There are multiple centralized services where you can send someone else bitcoin. The only thing that has potential is payment channels, but I'm not sure how they are going to be implemented in a way that bypasses the Bitcoin blockchain's miner fee.
cusack 11y ago
I don't think the mined bitcoin is meant to be thought of as a revenue source at all. I think the intention of the 21Inc machine is to have a computer that is automatically connected to the blockchain and can transact with others programmatically. I think the mined satoshis should be thought of a stream of digital ink -- ensuring your device always has enough ink to at least write into the ledger (blockchain). If successful, and 21Inc units become an inherent part of IoT, I think we would see a lot of satoshi level transactions that aren't meant to be quantified in USDs; the transaction will just be meant to show proof of interaction between two machines. Ex. your vehicle passed X checkpoint at Y time - use a satoshi to write it into the ledger.

dmix 11y ago

They aren't selling this as a self-financing investment so the ROI from BTC alone is not entirely relevant. The value prop is to get access to bitcoins and the network for development purposes, if I'm not mistaken. The better question might be is this a problem people are willing to spend $400 to solve?

grubles 11y ago
The better question is why not just use the bitcoin testnet? https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Testnet
ssharp 11y ago
Couldn't they have just used software to emulate the steady stream of Bitcoin that this thing produces? The inclusion of the miner and it's subsequent price tag (over what a normal Pi costs) makes it seem ridiculous. If their endgame is to create a mining chip that can be realistically put into devices, they'd better figure out a much better form factor for it as well.

api 11y ago

The purpose is not mining for USD profit.

toomim 11y ago

The new "buffered mining" and predictive mining features they announced take more of the risk out of mining. Not only do they have a pool to ameliorate the variance of finding a block, but they remove the risk of the difficulty varying, and even give you advance payments on mining before you've done it. By taking out all the risk, variance, and profit, 21 is step-by-step approaching a design where customers just buy bitcoin with money. Except they feel like they are mining, with a very wasteful, expensive, inefficient chip. Buying bitcoin was the right design all along. Eventually, 21 might discover this, if they can get over all the sunk costs they've invested in making mining chips without a market.

Syrup-tan 11y ago
Meta: Finally, a comment that isn't hung up on the scrolling behaviour, or the price of the mining power. It's notable the rsync.net has similar, terrible web behaviour, but we seem to have sane discussions about it's service. On topic: I think the neat part of 21 is that it seems to be a step forward in realising microtransactions, in a decentralised manner. Right now the only way around microtransactions is having a centralised pool, where you e.g. put $5/month in, and it pays services out of that pool. The problem with paying services directly is the base fees associated with transactions (for CC, it's around $0.15 + 3%, through Stripe).
- jebeng 11y ago
  How is this realizing microtransactions in a decentralized manner? Having to pay a few cents in transaction fees to get a transaction included on the Bitcoin blockchain does not seem like a great platform for true microtransactions(say <$1). 21 offers their own microtransaction service, but that's just a centralized shared wallet/ledger that offers nothing new. There are multiple centralized services where you can send someone else bitcoin. The only thing that has potential is payment channels, but I'm not sure how they are going to be implemented in a way that bypasses the Bitcoin blockchain's miner fee.

cusack 11y ago

I don't think the mined bitcoin is meant to be thought of as a revenue source at all. I think the intention of the 21Inc machine is to have a computer that is automatically connected to the blockchain and can transact with others programmatically. I think the mined satoshis should be thought of a stream of digital ink -- ensuring your device always has enough ink to at least write into the ledger (blockchain). If successful, and 21Inc units become an inherent part of IoT, I think we would see a lot of satoshi level transactions that aren't meant to be quantified in USDs; the transaction will just be meant to show proof of interaction between two machines. Ex. your vehicle passed X checkpoint at Y time - use a satoshi to write it into the ledger.