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Didn't France approve sweeping surveillance laws back in July? And they even were on high alert due to international talks happening in Paris... Italy and Spai

by Luker88 11y ago

Didn't France approve sweeping surveillance laws back in July? And they even were on high alert due to international talks happening in Paris... Italy and Spain also stopped terrorist cells this month, but they don't seem to have such laws... Guess they need more unwarranted power, uh?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- dogma1138 11y ago
  Could both of you let the bodies cool down before you start rambling about what they might and might not do? There is no "prime cause" that is easy to work on, the situation is much more complicated than terrorism is the outcome of US/Western US policy. So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. Not to mention that working on the "prime cause" in the eyes of such people is justification enough there have been just as many attacks against western targets for building schools as for blowing them up.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    > So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. And even that won't work since our societies have become quite intermingled.
  - codedokode 11y ago
    Maybe I shouldn't write this but the prime cause is european war against ISIS. These people are the victims of war. So the best solution is to stop it, withdraw european armies from arabian countries, and stop welcoming refugees. Let them fight among themselves.
    - dogma1138 11y ago
      That's utter nonsense, there were "Palestinian" (not necessarily carried out by Palestinians, in fact most of them were carried by left wing europeans who used that as a justification) terror attacks in Europe in the 70's when Israel was under a trade embargo by most European countries. Also for the most part there are no European armies in Arab countries, Europe has barely any armies to speak off yet alone to deploy in force overseas. Even if you completely isolate yourself you will still be under their crosshairs doesn't matter if it's for bombing Syria or for building schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan that dare to teach girls. As for the refugees and near eastern and north African migrants that ship has sailed long ago, even if Europe doesn't take a single person now it still needs to find a way to solve it's own internal problem, Europe has utterly failed to assimilate any immigration from near east and African countries since WW2, even the enlightened Nordic states are rife with patronizing racism which prevents any true assimilation and the neo-liberal ideas that some how mandate that migrants should preserve their own culture at any costs aggravates that issue even further.
junto 11y ago
We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not spread throughout the entire body. With that in mind, I believe that our only choice, assuming we want our free and open societies to remain as they are, is to monitor all Muslims living in Europe who have the potential to be radicalised and turned cancerous. Warrant, judge, monitor. We could try and close all the borders (they are porous) or we can make pointless suggestions, like we should kick all immigrants out of our countries, but the fact remains that the attackers in London and Paris earlier in the year (and I'm betting last night too) are second or third generation immigrants who were born in the west. Since 9/11 the security services have tried to crack down on radicalization within the internal Muslim communities, by expelling radical clerics, but the internet allows the radicalization of the very young and marginalised youth (mostly boys), to continue. This isn't surprising considering the racism against immigrants in the ghettoes of Paris, and the exclusion of these youths from French society. First came the riots in 2005, and now something much more sinister has arrived. Or societies are desperately trying not to impose draconian rules of monitoring on a religious group, but as it stands I see little choice in the matter. Also Germany is facing a firestorm. Within the large numbers of genuine refugees, are Syrian fighters from both sides. Some are most likely disillusioned by the brutality of ISIS, and some are coming to watch the world burn. We desperately need to know who these people are and urgently before they disappear into the masses. We also need to understand ISIS and what they are trying to do. Wikileaks recently published a document [1] that outlines their goals and they are simple. They want to achieve the Islamic State with pure Sharia Law. Moderate Muslims (aka "the greyzone") either have to join, or be burnt in the war with all other Kafir (that has been prophesied). They need the west to turn against their Muslim communities forcing them back to fighting and into the open arms of ISIS. They want those new immigrants in Germany to be excluded, treated like dogs, so that they either return to the middle east and (re)join the perverted form of Islam that is preached by IS. Now you can see the dilemma that the west faces. On the one hand, logic dictates that they need to closely monitor the youths in Europe who are getting radicalised over the internet, but they can't single out a religious group without a severe backlash. The alternative is to monitor everyone on the internet, because in doing that you get to watch the small part that you are interested in, without appearing to religiously persecuting Muslims. Finally, there is a twitter account [2] that follows radical militia fighters from Syria and the middle East. A large number of which are now posting photos of them in Europe now. We need to find them now. [1] ISIS strategy in France: Provoke a crackdown on Muslims to "Eliminate the Grayzone" https://t.co/8fb8BbKOG2 https://t.co/8fb8BbKOG2 #ParisAttacks #AttaquesParis [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_MilitiaWatch/ https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_MilitiaWatch/

by Luker88 11y ago

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

dogma1138 11y ago
Could both of you let the bodies cool down before you start rambling about what they might and might not do? There is no "prime cause" that is easy to work on, the situation is much more complicated than terrorism is the outcome of US/Western US policy. So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. Not to mention that working on the "prime cause" in the eyes of such people is justification enough there have been just as many attacks against western targets for building schools as for blowing them up.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- jacquesm 11y ago
  > So unless your solution for the "prime cause" is glassing the middle east a large portion of asia and africa there won't be just one simple solution. And even that won't work since our societies have become quite intermingled.
- codedokode 11y ago
  Maybe I shouldn't write this but the prime cause is european war against ISIS. These people are the victims of war. So the best solution is to stop it, withdraw european armies from arabian countries, and stop welcoming refugees. Let them fight among themselves.
  - dogma1138 11y ago
    That's utter nonsense, there were "Palestinian" (not necessarily carried out by Palestinians, in fact most of them were carried by left wing europeans who used that as a justification) terror attacks in Europe in the 70's when Israel was under a trade embargo by most European countries. Also for the most part there are no European armies in Arab countries, Europe has barely any armies to speak off yet alone to deploy in force overseas. Even if you completely isolate yourself you will still be under their crosshairs doesn't matter if it's for bombing Syria or for building schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan that dare to teach girls. As for the refugees and near eastern and north African migrants that ship has sailed long ago, even if Europe doesn't take a single person now it still needs to find a way to solve it's own internal problem, Europe has utterly failed to assimilate any immigration from near east and African countries since WW2, even the enlightened Nordic states are rife with patronizing racism which prevents any true assimilation and the neo-liberal ideas that some how mandate that migrants should preserve their own culture at any costs aggravates that issue even further.

junto 11y ago

We need targeted surveillance and by that I mean something that many will vehemently disagree with. Before you down vote, please make the effort to read to the end and then down vote! If I was a doctor and my patient had cancer in his foot, then if try to treat the foot to get rid of the cancer. I would also pay particularly close attention to the leg connected to that foot, to make sure that the cancer did not spread throughout the entire body. With that in mind, I believe that our only choice, assuming we want our free and open societies to remain as they are, is to monitor all Muslims living in Europe who have the potential to be radicalised and turned cancerous. Warrant, judge, monitor. We could try and close all the borders (they are porous) or we can make pointless suggestions, like we should kick all immigrants out of our countries, but the fact remains that the attackers in London and Paris earlier in the year (and I'm betting last night too) are second or third generation immigrants who were born in the west. Since 9/11 the security services have tried to crack down on radicalization within the internal Muslim communities, by expelling radical clerics, but the internet allows the radicalization of the very young and marginalised youth (mostly boys), to continue. This isn't surprising considering the racism against immigrants in the ghettoes of Paris, and the exclusion of these youths from French society. First came the riots in 2005, and now something much more sinister has arrived. Or societies are desperately trying not to impose draconian rules of monitoring on a religious group, but as it stands I see little choice in the matter. Also Germany is facing a firestorm. Within the large numbers of genuine refugees, are Syrian fighters from both sides. Some are most likely disillusioned by the brutality of ISIS, and some are coming to watch the world burn. We desperately need to know who these people are and urgently before they disappear into the masses. We also need to understand ISIS and what they are trying to do. Wikileaks recently published a document [1] that outlines their goals and they are simple. They want to achieve the Islamic State with pure Sharia Law. Moderate Muslims (aka "the greyzone") either have to join, or be burnt in the war with all other Kafir (that has been prophesied). They need the west to turn against their Muslim communities forcing them back to fighting and into the open arms of ISIS. They want those new immigrants in Germany to be excluded, treated like dogs, so that they either return to the middle east and (re)join the perverted form of Islam that is preached by IS. Now you can see the dilemma that the west faces. On the one hand, logic dictates that they need to closely monitor the youths in Europe who are getting radicalised over the internet, but they can't single out a religious group without a severe backlash. The alternative is to monitor everyone on the internet, because in doing that you get to watch the small part that you are interested in, without appearing to religiously persecuting Muslims. Finally, there is a twitter account [2] that follows radical militia fighters from Syria and the middle East. A large number of which are now posting photos of them in Europe now. We need to find them now. [1] ISIS strategy in France: Provoke a crackdown on Muslims to "Eliminate the Grayzone" https://t.co/8fb8BbKOG2 https://t.co/8fb8BbKOG2 #ParisAttacks #AttaquesParis [2] https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_MilitiaWatch/ https://mobile.twitter.com/EU_MilitiaWatch/