10 ms·
What do people think the refugees were running away from? Exactly these people.
by untog 11y ago
What do people think the refugees were running away from? Exactly these people.
- tiatia 11y agoUnfortunately, they bring the thing they are running away from, with them. Their backward culture.
- Cthulhu_ 11y agoI think a major problem is that even they can't know who among them - in the big groups of refugees making the journey - is an isis member or supporter, and even if they're not, there's no telling who is going to radicalise in the future. The attacks earlier this year in paris weren't done by someone that came from that area, iirc.
- toyg 11y agoRefugees carry little more than their shirts in their travels. Those guns and grenades didn't come with refugees. End of story.
- philwelch 11y agoGuns and grenades are not that hard to get, even in Europe. The limiting factor is how many people are willing to lay siege to a concert hall and calmly execute a hundred people, and whether some of those people were let in under the guise of "refugees".
- stsp 11y agoCome on. Don't blame refugees. Normal people are refugees. Refugees are normal people. Their problems are rooted in abuse of power. http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/11/a-perilous-journey-khalids-story-syrian-refugee http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/11/... http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/12/a-perilous-journey-haskos-story-syrian-refugee http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/12/... http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/13/a-perilous-journey-mohammads-story-syrian-refugee http://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2015/nov/13/...
- philwelch 11y agoI'm not blaming the refugees. If anything I feel sympathetic for them because the refugees are trying to escape entire countries that are effectively ruled by these people. But it's worth asking how ISIS managed to get these people into Paris.
- toyg 11y ago> Guns and grenades are not that hard to get, even in Europe. Not hard to get, but when you're talking about dozens of assault rifles, someone somewhere will know what is going where. If your intelligence people are worth their salt, of course. > whether some of those people were let in under the guise of "refugees". Yeah, because it's extremely effective to drop your people for months in a Turkish refugee camp, hoping that 1) they will survive in shocking conditions, 2) they will be processed and sent to France, or 3) they will jump on a dinghy and make it to the other side (when chances are that they will just sink), or 4) they will walk through half a dozen borders on high alert and across unsympathetic countries. Pure tactical genius. More likely, these people had good passports and went through friendly airports smelling of roses. Once on-site, they were armed by existing networks that the French security apparatus still doesn't know how to infiltrate effectively. That's so much easier than leaving people to their own devices across two continents and hope they'll somehow manage to make it to la Gare du Nord at 10 o'clock on Friday morning.
- jacquesm 11y agoSince the end of the war in former Yugoslavia and the fall of the former USSR Europe is awash with arms of all shapes and sizes. Automatic weapons caches are uncovered with scary regularity and it is not hard to imagine at all that groups with sufficient money can gain access to assault weapons in relatively large numbers.
- ordinary 11y agoI have never heard of this, which is scary in itself. Or maybe it isn't, I don't really know. Do you know of any further reading for me?
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- jacquesm 11y agoSure, here are two links to start with: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europes-small-arms-plague/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/europes-small-arms-plague/ (1998) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/getting-a-gun-legally-in-europe-may-be-hard-but-terrorists-have-little-trouble/2015/02/19/9eb6bce2-b78b-11e4-bc30-a4e75503948a_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/getting-a-gun-le... And many many others, unfortunately. It's a very nasty thing and it will take an extraordinary effort to put this genie back into the bottle. Open borders has been a blessing in many ways but at the same time it has caused a whole bunch of un-intended side effects and this one and cross border heavy crime are two of the not so nice ones, to put it very mildly. We now have actual gangs with heavy arms in Amsterdam which was a fairly peaceful city not all that long ago.
- arcadeparade 11y agoThey also carry their religion, genes and culture. And with that comes a clash of civilisations. With open gates: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb0_1447249820
- facetube 11y agoAre you suggesting that migrants are somehow genetically inferior? Because that'd be, frankly, an insane point of view to have.
- jacquesm 11y agoP.O.E.
- vox_mollis 11y agoA charitable reading would suggest that the parent is making a nod to behavioral genetics, which is substantially less insane.
- arcadeparade 11y agoInferior is subjective. Different groups have different traits. Not an insane point of view, but definitely one that is politically incorrect, for now: https://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/ https://jaymans.wordpress.com/hbd-fundamentals/ Of course we are all human beings equally deserving of compassion, no matter what our differences, but the equality myth that we are all born the same and all have the same chances of having equal outcomes in life, is a very dangerous one that is destroying the social pacts modern Europe was built on.
- threeseed 11y ago> Multiculturalism has never, at any time in human history, worked anywhere What a load of complete and utter nonsense. I am embarrassed to even see that link on this site. Multiculturalism is working just fine in Australia right now. In fact it is largely how this country was built. And just like most Western countries we have a fringe right who are xenophobic and anti immigrant but by and large the population welcomes different cultures and the benefits they bring.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- briandear 11y agoYou have no idea what you're talking about. Within probably 3 hours, one could arrange the purchase of AK-47s. The "bad guys" aren't coming to France with weapons in their checked luggage. This is supported by networks. The foot soldiers aren't the smugglers. You flood 10,000 people, among those you have your "bad guys," then, once they're in country, they link up with their networks. This isn't "end of story." These ISIS guys aren't just buying tickets to CDG airport. How are they getting into Europe? What's the easiest way to get into Europe if your from Syria? It isn't going through traditional entry routes, it's blending in with refugees. Why are so many people attempting to vindicate the refugees? If the bad guys are from Syria and 38% of the hundreds of thousands of refugees are Syrian, then wouldn't it follow that some percentage of those refugees could logically be nefarious actors? To think otherwise is to be incredible naive and perhaps blinding by an ideological desire for these refugees to not be part of the problem. Sure there's tragedy in Syria, however, I'm unwilling to open my home if that exposes my family to any risk. There's no upside for me. There are plenty of poor people here in France that could use my help -- my capacity to care deeply about every single person in every single war zone is limited. Let's export 50,000 Syrian refugees and dump them in the Mission District in San Fran and see how opinions change.
- cm2187 11y agoThe French TV mentions that the terrorists were speaking French. And based on previous attacks it is more likely to be home grown terrorists. Syria is probably just a pretext, like a lot of European leftists in the 70s were using the Palestinian situation to justify their terrorist attacks.
- tormeh 11y agoHm... Interesting parallels: In the 70s, European communist terrorism was widespread because of support from the Soviet Union. Now, European islamist terrorism is widespread because of support from the middle east. I'm aware that the CIA et al. have been doing exactly the same thing, but it's just a sad pattern.
- kpil 11y agoUnfortunately, if one correlates the money, the particular religious flavour, and some incentives in loss of influence in certain neighbour countries, it would point to certain gulf states that we seem to be reliant on for oil. Regard as allies even.
- hokkos 11y agoThis is probably french terrorists, but they probably did this because they couldn't go in Syria or were ordered to do it in France from Syria. There is hundreds of young french men and few women who went there. There is every week in France a group of muslim terrorists that are arrested because they were ordered or prepared a strike. One time a group a 10 terrorists was arrested.
- cm2187 11y agoThe problem is that there is a very significant portion of the French immigration who absolutely hate France and that ISIS can recruit so easily in this population. In many suburbs of Paris, people were cheering during 9/11. And earlier this year you didn't see any immigrant in the Charlie support demonstrations. The French press is trying to spin this as a foreign attack from the middle-east but I think that the real problem is inside France.
- serge2k 11y agoThe Syrian refugees, sure. A big problem is actually determining who people are and why thy are entering Europe.
- michaelchisari 11y agoYet if it's determined that this was orchestrated by a dozen Saudi nationals on travel visas, my guess is that the Syrian refugees are still going to take it hardest on the chin.
- robbiep 11y agoNot European but travelling in Asia at the moment. Have had a couple of discussions with run-of-the-mill Europeans concerned that the refugees areproportionally made up much more of young men than women/children with the implication that these guys are up to no good. I'd say the subtleties of the humanitarian crisis is going to be lost on the average European Joe in the wake of this
- bsder 11y ago> the refugees areproportionally made up much more of young men than women/children with the implication that these guys are up to no good. You don't even have to imply that they are intentionally up to no good. Groups of young men without possibilities of pairing off with young women are far more prone to crime and violence.
- jameshart 11y agoThe refugees who have travelled to Europe to seek asylum are disproportionately young and male. Because if you have a family group in a refugee camp in Turkey, you don't send your grandmother to take a dangerous boatride across the Med and then traipse around the countryside of the Balkans trying to find a way to get to talk to a German government official about the possibility of making an asylum application for your family.
- Turing_Machine 11y agoIf I had a wife, grandmother, kids, etc. in a dangerous war zone or refugee camp, there is no way in hell that I would leave them behind. Not gonna happen.
- TeMPOraL 11y agoOh you would, if that was the only way to ensure survival and/or a better future for them. It would be painful, but you would feel you have to do this.
- 11y ago