6 ms·

> its my device, not apple's Except when a device gets highjacked or something by a malware or whatever then user always blames the manufacturer of the OS, I g

by usaphp 11y ago

> its my device, not apple's Except when a device gets highjacked or something by a malware or whatever then user always blames the manufacturer of the OS, I guess apple knowing this just have a strict policies about it. Apple has a right to decide how to build and maintain their OS, they are the ones who created it, not device owners. If device owners don't like something about it, they have an option not to purchase it, Apple does not have an option to not sell a phone to some dumb user who will install viruses and then complain about Apple lack of security

wolfgke 11y ago
> Except when a device gets highjacked or something by a malware or whatever then user always blames the manufacturer of the OS In other words, a bad swimmer blames the producer of the bathing drawers for his bad swimming skills. I understand.
- chaz72 11y ago
  It would be ridiculous for a bad swimmer to blame the creator of his or her swimwear. On the other hand, a bad swimmer might be pretty upset with the creators of his or her boat, if hypothetically the goal is to stay out of the water. It's just possible that it depends on what you expect from the device when you buy it.
  - will_pseudonym 11y ago
    Except that for many users, they would GREATLY PREFER to have the RIGHT to acknowledge the risks entailed, and use the device how THEY WANT TO USE IT. They purchased a physical device, and they deserve to be able to use it how they want. This is just another example of why the DMCA needs to be dismantled.
    - chaz72 11y ago
      I've been spending some time trying to understand this today, and I don't understand why such users don't just go buy a device they can root and take full control that way. Why blame a vendor that doesn't ship what you want? Why not just... buy what you do want? Separately: The DMCA needs to be dismantled, absolutely.
      - xiaoma 11y ago
        There's no good alternative, except maybe the MiPhone in China. Android is pretty horrible and saddled with all kinds of Google integration.
        chaz72 11y ago
        Well, I agree with you there (in general I mean, I don't know the miPhone). I would love to see a truly open source handheld computer. I've thought about picking up a Firefox OS phone. I just don't think it's Apple's job to create it. That's not what they do.
    - rarepostinlurkr 11y ago
      I am not sure I follow how you arrive at the conclusion that "many users" would prefer this. What platform are those users on? It appears that many users (certainly a financially measurable majority) have indicated their preferences already.
    - josteink 11y ago
      > Except that for many users, they would GREATLY PREFER to have the RIGHT to acknowledge the risks entailed, and use the device how THEY WANT TO USE IT. Let's face it: These people (rightly) buy Android and Nexus devices.
- usaphp 11y ago
  No bad swimmer will blame a coach who did not control his swimming and let him drawn. That's the logic behind no tech skilled users. Remember how everybody was blaming apple for celebrities photos leaked, they did not blame stupid celebrities for having the same easy password for all their online accounts...
  - jessaustin 11y ago
    Some of those people think nothing of hiring physical security costing five or even six figures every year. They didn't also consider hiring someone to spend an hour a month administering their personal devices? I notice that I am confused...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
- chaz72 11y ago
  Outlawed? Just because one vendor sells a non-general-purpose computer, you feel like general-purpose computers have been outlawed? I don't understand.
6d0debc071 11y ago
Let me have a switch and require me to do some trivial but scary sounding procedure to enable the functionality so that idiots don't run across it - flash the firmware or something. Void the warranty when I do so to discourage the cautious, with appropriate warning labels to go back before doing so. If you protect the naive from the consequence of their actions forever, then you end up with a world where those who are not naive cannot do anything because of all the 'safety' that they have to fight through first.
- chaz72 11y ago
  The naive outnumber the skilled by so very many... perhaps the skilled need different devices and different operating systems?
  - 6d0debc071 11y ago
    Maybe. It's not clear to me how many people would go to the bother of unlocking their devices and then complain to Apple when something went wrong if there was some trivial roadblock. I'd also, on an ideological note, be inclined to be cautious about separating the consumers and the producers any more than they already are. One of the big promises of computers is that you can automate so much - granted a lot of people are cut off from that power - and I'd want to be going in the direction of making that power more accessible to people rather than less. If I'd had to, for example, buy a specialised programming computer with a programming OS when I was young... I'd probably not be a programmer today. That sort of thing seems like it would be very expensive. But you may very well turn out to be right - maybe most people can't be allowed to have nice things. :/ Depressing, if true, but not entirely implausible.
    - chaz72 11y ago
      Unless you are trying to argue that iOS is replacing desktop operating systems, I don't see why the presence of a locked-down device is a threat to a general purpose computer. I find general purpose computers are not expensive at all and I don't particularly expect that to change.
  - 11y ago

by usaphp 11y ago

wolfgke 11y ago

> Except when a device gets highjacked or something by a malware or whatever then user always blames the manufacturer of the OS In other words, a bad swimmer blames the producer of the bathing drawers for his bad swimming skills. I understand.

chaz72 11y ago
It would be ridiculous for a bad swimmer to blame the creator of his or her swimwear. On the other hand, a bad swimmer might be pretty upset with the creators of his or her boat, if hypothetically the goal is to stay out of the water. It's just possible that it depends on what you expect from the device when you buy it.
- will_pseudonym 11y ago
  Except that for many users, they would GREATLY PREFER to have the RIGHT to acknowledge the risks entailed, and use the device how THEY WANT TO USE IT. They purchased a physical device, and they deserve to be able to use it how they want. This is just another example of why the DMCA needs to be dismantled.
  - chaz72 11y ago
    I've been spending some time trying to understand this today, and I don't understand why such users don't just go buy a device they can root and take full control that way. Why blame a vendor that doesn't ship what you want? Why not just... buy what you do want? Separately: The DMCA needs to be dismantled, absolutely.
    - xiaoma 11y ago
      There's no good alternative, except maybe the MiPhone in China. Android is pretty horrible and saddled with all kinds of Google integration.
      - chaz72 11y ago
        Well, I agree with you there (in general I mean, I don't know the miPhone). I would love to see a truly open source handheld computer. I've thought about picking up a Firefox OS phone. I just don't think it's Apple's job to create it. That's not what they do.
  - rarepostinlurkr 11y ago
    I am not sure I follow how you arrive at the conclusion that "many users" would prefer this. What platform are those users on? It appears that many users (certainly a financially measurable majority) have indicated their preferences already.
  - josteink 11y ago
    > Except that for many users, they would GREATLY PREFER to have the RIGHT to acknowledge the risks entailed, and use the device how THEY WANT TO USE IT. Let's face it: These people (rightly) buy Android and Nexus devices.
usaphp 11y ago
No bad swimmer will blame a coach who did not control his swimming and let him drawn. That's the logic behind no tech skilled users. Remember how everybody was blaming apple for celebrities photos leaked, they did not blame stupid celebrities for having the same easy password for all their online accounts...
- jessaustin 11y ago
  Some of those people think nothing of hiring physical security costing five or even six figures every year. They didn't also consider hiring someone to spend an hour a month administering their personal devices? I notice that I am confused...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

chaz72 11y ago
Outlawed? Just because one vendor sells a non-general-purpose computer, you feel like general-purpose computers have been outlawed? I don't understand.

6d0debc071 11y ago

Let me have a switch and require me to do some trivial but scary sounding procedure to enable the functionality so that idiots don't run across it - flash the firmware or something. Void the warranty when I do so to discourage the cautious, with appropriate warning labels to go back before doing so. If you protect the naive from the consequence of their actions forever, then you end up with a world where those who are not naive cannot do anything because of all the 'safety' that they have to fight through first.

chaz72 11y ago
The naive outnumber the skilled by so very many... perhaps the skilled need different devices and different operating systems?
- 6d0debc071 11y ago
  Maybe. It's not clear to me how many people would go to the bother of unlocking their devices and then complain to Apple when something went wrong if there was some trivial roadblock. I'd also, on an ideological note, be inclined to be cautious about separating the consumers and the producers any more than they already are. One of the big promises of computers is that you can automate so much - granted a lot of people are cut off from that power - and I'd want to be going in the direction of making that power more accessible to people rather than less. If I'd had to, for example, buy a specialised programming computer with a programming OS when I was young... I'd probably not be a programmer today. That sort of thing seems like it would be very expensive. But you may very well turn out to be right - maybe most people can't be allowed to have nice things. :/ Depressing, if true, but not entirely implausible.
  - chaz72 11y ago
    Unless you are trying to argue that iOS is replacing desktop operating systems, I don't see why the presence of a locked-down device is a threat to a general purpose computer. I find general purpose computers are not expensive at all and I don't particularly expect that to change.
- 11y ago