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When you think that Microsoft was accused of abusing its monopoly when they shipped IE with Windows. You cannot even install another true browser on iOS, just s

by teebot 11y ago

When you think that Microsoft was accused of abusing its monopoly when they shipped IE with Windows. You cannot even install another true browser on iOS, just some sort of chrome around safari/Webkit.

tea-flow 11y ago
When iPhones reach 90%+ market share this will indeed turn into a problem. I believe they are in the 10-15% range right now.
- lambda 11y ago
  No, it is a problem before that. When it becomes a problem bad enough to warrant government intervention is another question.
  - signal11 11y ago
    That depends on national laws. In the UK, for example, > 25% market share makes you a monopoly.
    - mcintyre1994 11y ago
      Is that if no competitor also has 25%? Android and iOS must both be above 25% in the UK, which of those are considered a monopoly?
      - lambda 11y ago
        Don't think about the laws in terms of a single monopoly. The laws should be more accurately described as anti-trust or competition laws. A handful of large players, each with less than 50% market share, can also distort the market and engage in anti-competitive tactics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law
Someone1234 11y ago
You answered your own question. Microsoft abused their monopoly; since neither Apple nor Google have a monopoly on mobile that set of rules does not apply. It would require a new set of laws to have anti-trust apply to ecosystems rather than only industrial/sector/field monopolies. At the moment Apple is free to do as they please.
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  Why not allow competition in software?
  - marknutter 11y ago
    Probably because Apple is very concerned about providing a secure experience for their customers. By requiring that all app developers use Nitro they can rest assured that those apps are at least as secure as mobile safari when it comes to browsing the web. If Google was use their own JIT compiler in Chrome for iOS and there was some serious security exploit that affected users as a result do you think users would blame Apple or Google? As far as most non-technical users are concerned, they would likely blame Apple because that's who they bought the phone from. There is competition in software, btw. You can buy an Android or Windows phone and get a completely different web browser in them.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      That's what the app sandbox is for. As long as the sandbox holds up, it doesn't matter what security vulnerabilities are in the app within. And if the sandbox doesn't hold up, you've probably lost the game regardless. There's plenty of room for security vulnerabilities in an app like Chrome even if they're not using a custom browser engine.
      - dymk 11y ago
        App sandbox is just one layer of the security model that iOS employs, and another is not allowing JIT'd code, in case someone finds a way to drop a payload into W&X memory. There's no reason to increase your attack surface if you don't need to.
dspillett 11y ago
As significant as Apple is in the mobile market, it doesn't have anything like the control MS had of the desktop market at that time. Using something else if is a viable option for most people that currently use Apple products, where it wasn't for many in the case of Windows back then.
pjmlp 11y ago
The thing is Apple doesn't have a monopoly on the mobile market, specially when the worldwide market share is taken into account. Until then, Apple is free to control 100% what comes into their platform. The same way any other vendor is free to do (e.g. games consoles), when not covered by monopoly laws. When they reach a size that falls into what the law considers a monopoly, then the game changes, as they have increased responsibilities towards the market.

by teebot 11y ago

tea-flow 11y ago

When iPhones reach 90%+ market share this will indeed turn into a problem. I believe they are in the 10-15% range right now.

lambda 11y ago
No, it is a problem before that. When it becomes a problem bad enough to warrant government intervention is another question.
- signal11 11y ago
  That depends on national laws. In the UK, for example, > 25% market share makes you a monopoly.
  - mcintyre1994 11y ago
    Is that if no competitor also has 25%? Android and iOS must both be above 25% in the UK, which of those are considered a monopoly?
    - lambda 11y ago
      Don't think about the laws in terms of a single monopoly. The laws should be more accurately described as anti-trust or competition laws. A handful of large players, each with less than 50% market share, can also distort the market and engage in anti-competitive tactics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Competition_law

Someone1234 11y ago

You answered your own question. Microsoft abused their monopoly; since neither Apple nor Google have a monopoly on mobile that set of rules does not apply. It would require a new set of laws to have anti-trust apply to ecosystems rather than only industrial/sector/field monopolies. At the moment Apple is free to do as they please.

tosseraccount 11y ago
Why not allow competition in software?
- marknutter 11y ago
  Probably because Apple is very concerned about providing a secure experience for their customers. By requiring that all app developers use Nitro they can rest assured that those apps are at least as secure as mobile safari when it comes to browsing the web. If Google was use their own JIT compiler in Chrome for iOS and there was some serious security exploit that affected users as a result do you think users would blame Apple or Google? As far as most non-technical users are concerned, they would likely blame Apple because that's who they bought the phone from. There is competition in software, btw. You can buy an Android or Windows phone and get a completely different web browser in them.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    That's what the app sandbox is for. As long as the sandbox holds up, it doesn't matter what security vulnerabilities are in the app within. And if the sandbox doesn't hold up, you've probably lost the game regardless. There's plenty of room for security vulnerabilities in an app like Chrome even if they're not using a custom browser engine.
    - dymk 11y ago
      App sandbox is just one layer of the security model that iOS employs, and another is not allowing JIT'd code, in case someone finds a way to drop a payload into W&X memory. There's no reason to increase your attack surface if you don't need to.

dspillett 11y ago

As significant as Apple is in the mobile market, it doesn't have anything like the control MS had of the desktop market at that time. Using something else if is a viable option for most people that currently use Apple products, where it wasn't for many in the case of Windows back then.

pjmlp 11y ago

The thing is Apple doesn't have a monopoly on the mobile market, specially when the worldwide market share is taken into account. Until then, Apple is free to control 100% what comes into their platform. The same way any other vendor is free to do (e.g. games consoles), when not covered by monopoly laws. When they reach a size that falls into what the law considers a monopoly, then the game changes, as they have increased responsibilities towards the market.