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Reconsidering Star Wars IV in the light of I-III
- macco 17y agoMost geeke Hacker News entry I know :) By the way I-III sucked, so we don't have the reconsider anything.
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- fondue 17y agoThis actually makes me rethink George Lucas as being brilliant rather than stupid. It's also re-written the entire Star Wars saga in my mind for the remainder of my life.
- DannoHung 17y agoNo. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxKtZmQgxrI
- EricBurnett 17y agoI thought that was going to be a link to the Star Wars Holiday Special (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNGjKnTzaQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCNGjKnTzaQ) as a testament against George Lucas. Gives me the shivers just thinking about it.
- Groxx 17y agothe holiday special is painful even with RiffTrax... and those salvage even some of the worst movies. And yes, I've watched the whole thing, and my friends who watched it with me are still friends (somehow). Though I did warn them of the badness. (for the uninformed: they're the MST3K guys' current project)
- Sukotto 17y agoOh... I was hoping that was a link to "George Lucas in Love"
- epochwolf 17y agoThank you so much for linking the Phantom Menace reviews. That guys proves that Lucas is an idiot more than anything else I've seen.
- sailormoon 17y agoYeah, what an idiot! I mean the stupid billionaire only wrote and produced one of the best and most influential movie series of all time. Lol, what a pathetic loser! That said, I also loved that review, hilarious.
- lucifer 17y agoWow. Thank you for the link. Beyond the comic relief and incisive review, this is practically a crash course in movie making.
- Groxx 17y agoAwesome breakdown of why Episode 1 is lame beyond comprehension. Personal favorite: when he asks people to describe the characters. The differences are shocking, and it showed the fail far more than any other, IMO.
- scott_s 17y agoI seriously doubt Lucas actually intended any of this. Rather, having R2-D2, C3-PO and Chewie all over the prequels was mostly fan-service, and this is an elaborate retcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroactive_continuity).
- foulmouthboy 17y agoEven if it was intended, it doesn't change the fact that Episodes 1-3 were terrible films.
- jgrahamc 17y agoLeia specifically says "I have placed information vital to the survival of the Rebellion into the memory systems of this R2 unit." So, the interpretation of R2-D2's role at the beginning seems spurious.
- adrianwaj 17y agoApparently he carries codes to change the alliances of the storm troopers (in addition to the plans of the death star, I suppose), who in III turned on the Jedi. This theme is/was meant to come in part VII-IX. I read this on Slashdot. At the end of VI the death star is destroyed, but whoever can take control of the storm troopers on the remaining imperial starships is a force to be reckoned with.
- mechanical_fish 17y agoShe might just be continuing the decades-long project of maintaining R2's cover.
- electromagnetic 17y agoR2 was a message boy, Leia dumped him onto Obi Wan hoping some loyalist sentiment would be kicked up in the old fool. Likely she'd over heard some communication between her step-father and Obi Wan, but never grasped why the old guy had marooned himself in a desert. Incidentally, to find out how to go Force-Ghost, which was instrumental to the survival of the Jedi order. Apparently the Jedi's plan was that Obi Wan discover the ability to go force-ghost and as he's human and has a shitty lifespan, he could die and secretly transmit the information to Yoda without Sith interception. Obi Wan, instead of risking capture decided to let himself die . . . apparently after training Anakin, he really hates padawans. Why did Obi Wan travel to Mos Eisley and not simply dig up his old ship he owned 20 years ago and fly that? I mean he was a frigging fighter pilot! This major plot hole introduced by his own backstory is somewhat helped by Chewbaca's back story, Obi Wan set up the meet, and possibly knew of Chewy beforehand and that Chewy and Han operated from Mos Eisley. This, I believe, was pure luck on Lucas' part.
- Sukotto 17y agoAs far as I'm concerned... this is the new canon for the entire series. Thank you for saving my love of Star Wars.
- RyanMcGreal 17y agoHere's my question: how did Luke end up stuck slogging in the desert with his grouchy uncle while his twin sister got to grow up a princess on a beautiful world?
- jimbokun 17y agoI know. It's no fair that Luke got a quiet, peaceful childhood, spending all his time tinkering with his Land Speeder, shooting swamp rats, and daydreaming about adventuring through the Galaxy, while his sister had to grow up in a stifling, controlling, political environment where her every word, action, and appearance were constantly monitored giving her very little freedom or privacy. Obviously, Obi-wan went easier on the boy.
- RyanMcGreal 17y agoWell played, sir.
- BrentRitterbeck 17y agoThis has to be one of the best exchanges I have ever seen. I don't think I have laughed that hard in quite a long time.
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- crpatino 17y agoAgreed. In retrospective, seems like Force related skills do develop better in unstructured environments... Oh, I now see where I went wrong!!! ;>
- RyanMcGreal 17y agoNo one told Luke it was impossible to bull's-eye womp rats in his T-16 back home, so he did it. http://blog.traysoft.com/2009/12/nobody-told-me-its-impossible-so-i-did-it/ http://blog.traysoft.com/2009/12/nobody-told-me-its-impossib...
- Rod 17y agoHow is this HN material? I am curious...
- deleted 17y ago[deleted]
- monological 17y agoHN == nerds
- billswift 17y agoAnd nerds == technologically competent + artistically stunted
- Rod 17y agoPlease do note that: 1) Not all people on HN are American, not all on HN describe themselves as "nerds". In some parts of the world where intellectualism is more welcome, intellectuals are looked upon with admiration, rather than contempt (even by pretty girls). 2) Since I love all things Math, Physics and CS, I guess I, too, am a "nerd". However, I must say that I always found Star Wars nauseatingly distasteful and unimaginative. Nothing more than a girlfriend-replacement to some of you socially awkward unfortunates who had a bad time in American high schools and, consequently, grew up emotionally retarded. Cheers y'all!
- mapspam 17y agomove along, move along...
- MartinCron 17y agoI really like reading this, but I can't shake the feeling that I'm reading a form of "creation science", where you need some particularly creative interpretations of things in order to make sense. Making Han Solo into an unwitting front for a Wookie mastermind is a lot like explaining how Carbon 14 would decay at a different rate before the great flood. It's better to just accept that there are holes in the story than to try to make everything fit together perfectly.
- electromagnetic 17y agoBeing a writer, I can personally believe Lucas when he said he'd planned Episodes I-III before the original trilogy, however at the time he likely only ever considered them as a back story for the original trilogy. This would be much-like Tolkien's appendices that cover much of the back story of Middle Earth, but are in no way a novel, just as Lucas's back story was in no way a script. There are obvious plot holes, but that happens with any prequel. It just so happens that for me there are enough mentions of the past in the original trilogy that I believe he did have plans for a prequel even from the beginning. However, I believe that was simply good story telling, because if it wasn't there wouldn't be the whole star wars universe there is today. From Lucas' films, Bail Organa did absolutely everything. Yoda was completely out of communication, likely simply to stay out of the Emperor's way. The Jedi are good, Yoda is amazing, but even he wouldn't stand up to the Emperor's wrath (remember, the Sith are as adept at foresight as, if not better than, the Jedi) had they found his location (IE he'd have glassed the planet). Anyone travelling to Degobah would have been suspicious, and as Obi Wan was the first to go blue (Qui-Gon having died like 50 years too early, plus the established cannon that Obi Wan was sent to Tattoine to learn the secrets of immortality) Yoda was really and truly out of communication. Obi Wan likely had the ability to communicate more, but probably didn't manage much beyond "Hey Organa, Skywalker got heat stroke again, looks like he's pulling through though!". Obi Wan's mission was a lot more important than living forever. He learnt how to physically join the force, which has to be achieved at death (Qui-Gon didn't vanish, he died), hence "If you strike me down now, I will only become more powerful than you could ever imagine!" Not exactly a cry for mercy. Why is this important? Well there was only 2 Jedi and 2 Sith left in the entire universe, if the Jedi managed to skip the whole 'disappearing into non-existence' they would be able to restore the Galactic Senate to its height pre-prequel-trilogy. Obi Wan died, and so did Yoda. However, if Vader hadn't turned back to the Light-Side he and the Emperor would have vanished, with all the knowledge of the Sith with them. 100 years down the road when someone talented in the force appeared, they'd be visited by two Force Ghosts that could train them and re-establish the Jedi Order. This was their plan, they knew full well that Luke and even Leia could die just from life, or at the hands of the Emperor and it would spell the end of the Jedi for eternity, while potentially not being the end of the Sith. Bail Organa, sadly was Obi Wan and Yoda's patsy. His job was to incite rebellion and bring down the Empire by killing the Emperor and Vader. However, when the first time failed, the Empire was really onto them. The Rebels jumped into the Battle of Endor right into the Imperial's trap. Had Luke basically not sacrificed himself, voluntarily being captured and luring Vader onto the Death Star 2 with the Emperor and distracting them both then the entire battle would have ended with "Oh shit, the thing has a shield!" as the DS2 had an active cannon and the Empire had deployed its gravity well technology to stop them jumping out (this was passingly mentioned in the film as the reason why they couldn't escape, but never directly explained). Luke, by all rights, got lucky that Vader had a heart, which gave him time enough to escape. Had Vader not had a heart, Luke would have been human-pork-roast and the Emperor and Vader would have died in the explosion. The New Trilogy aptly set up the story line that Lucas told in the Original Trilogy. He had to smooth a few rough edges, but the Original Trilogy itself had many plot holes to begin with, for instance: How did Vader manage to be within an inch of his daughter and not recognise her, but barely got into the same room as Luke before knowing it was his son. Lucas is doing decent to say there was 22 years between the two movies, and apart from the whole "Han Shot First" fiasco, he's made the stories significantly better for new fans watching through from the beginning. However the whole "Luke I am your Father" is ruined, so my Kids will one day see the original trilogy first and I'll ruin all of George Lucas' work! Why didn't R2 and Chewie know who each other were? Well firstly R2 can basically communicate with C3P0 and Luke. Chewie can basically communicate with C3P0 and Han. Simply put, the only one with a talent for communicating there is C3P0 and from the looks of it, he's had so many memory wipes that he's basically incapable of doing much but following and acting as a more annoying google translate. Secondly R2 and Chewie are part of a fucking terrorist group, they're plotting to destroy the government! I doubt there's an open list of active members published at every meeting house. Chewie was working with smugglers, R2 was working with royalty. Simply put, there should be no reason whatsoever that they should have known they had both acted for the Rebels. When Han left with his cash, it was likely Chewie who prodded Han to return, likely by bating him. Chewie had worked with the rebels, and disappeared for 20+ years. It's safe to say, that after seeing his entire civilization and species be concurred by the Empire, he expected the same for everything else. when he saw how organized Bail Organa had got the rebels, he likely wanted to rejoin the fight.
- mapspam 17y agoit's a shame that the misspelling of Tatooine in that article hasn't been corrected in 4+ years oh and Lucas isn't that clever.
- starbuck_ 17y agoAlso Kashyyyk. While I don't really think Lucas is that clever, he did have plans for nine films, so I suppose it's possible.
- philwelch 17y agoOne of the more interesting theories I've read about the leadership of the Rebellion is that control was passed from the aristocracy of Alderaan to that of Mon Calamari (Admiral Ackbar's planet) between IV and VI, as the Calamari contributed most of the Rebel capital ships to what was originally a network of spies and rogue X-Wing jocks.
- raganwald 17y agoThere were three prequels to the Star Wars trilogy?
- access_denied 17y agoI don't know what they are talking about neither. I love those sci-fi movies from the 70s though...
- nazgulnarsil 17y agowhy are people expending effort making excuses for George's abortion?
- pronoiac 17y agoThis just popped up on Cracked's "6 Insane Fan Theories That Actually Make Great Movies Better" article - http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-that-actually-make-great-movies-better/ http://www.cracked.com/article/18367_6-insane-fan-theories-t... A related discussion at Metafilter pointed out TV Tropes' page on "Wild Mass Guesses" - http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/StarWars http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WMG/StarWars - specifically, "Luke was a baited trap that got lucky." Obi-Wan & Yoda would have rather trained Leia in the Force. :)
- armandososa 17y agoI never was a fan of Star-Wars, but after watching the prequels my thought was that the Jedis deserved their fate for not taking prophecies literally or not knowing basic math. Obi Wan to Anakin: "You were supposed to bring balance to the force!" Dude, two Jedis and two Siths sounds pretty balanced to me.